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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 11:01:27 GMT 12
Need to replace it (don’t ask). 🙄
Mast height 20m, boat length 15m.
What’s best estimate on length I need without adding too much for safety?
GO30 - you around tomorrow? 😊
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 21, 2022 11:40:30 GMT 12
Need to replace it (don’t ask). 🙄 Mast height 20m, boat length 15m. What’s best estimate on length I need without adding too much for safety? GO30 - you around tomorrow? 😊 is there a spinnaker attached to it? but seriously, see sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sun-odyssey-50-ds-jeanneauthis is a bit rough but will be close forestay length 18m
exit box height above forestay x 1.5 ??m (eyeball it)
I (main hoist 17m
height deck to boom 1.5m
length from mast base to clutch ?? (measure it)
fudge factor 3m
total m |
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Post by Cantab on Mar 21, 2022 12:18:00 GMT 12
Some would advise that you add on enough to allow your spinnaker head to stream out onto the water without having to let halyard run, involves a bit of triangulation but could come in handy one day.
I've done it for all mine.
Means if you let halyard go it won't leave you with a half full kite miles from your masthead.
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Post by fish on Mar 21, 2022 12:30:26 GMT 12
Need to replace it (don’t ask). 🙄 Mast height 20m, boat length 15m. What’s best estimate on length I need without adding too much for safety? GO30 - you around tomorrow? 😊 Wasn't there a thread around somewhere where you were debating running your kite single handed? I'm not going to ask what happened to your halyard (as you asked us not to ask), but my fav kite drop is the letter-box drop. Works very well short handed. Brings the kite in between the boom and the foot of the main, main blankets the kite, it gets snuffed as it comes through, and avoids risks of re-filling, or dragging in the piss if you get it wrong. You can fairly much stop and have a breather mid drop with this method. Other methods, which are somewhat less favourable: 1) The Sanford drop - trailing it in the water and fighting like buggery to get it back onboard at all. Bonus points if you don't rip it. Almost impossible solo, which leads to drop method #2 2) The Samurai drop. Not commonly used as a Plan A drop, but highly popular as a Plan B drop. Usually used in situations of unforeseen outcomes, and in association with concerns regarding ones insurance premiums, generally with the objective of keeping the mast up and in functional order. So called as the drop entails grabbing a sharp blade and wielding it with the skill and dexterity of a Japanese Samurai whilst slashing any cordage that is attaching the trawl net to the afore mentioned object of concern regarding insurance premiums. |
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 12:38:27 GMT 12
Unfortunately there isn’t an exciting story attached to this. Just a stupid story - I was hoisting a friend up the mast and thought the run to the winch looked fine but whilst I was looking up during the hoist I got a riding turn that was impossible to clear. Had to cut it. 🙄
Took a bit of creativity to get him down again but managed ok but now my spinny halyard is missing quite a lot!
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 12:41:00 GMT 12
On a related note, one thing I tried to do (but failed) was to tie another line to the halyard under load and take the weight off.
So after I got my friend back down we mucked around with some ropes & knots but failed to create a suitable bite that would take over the load on a pre-loaded line.
Does that make sense?
There must be a well-known knot / bite that achieves this? But I don’t know it! 😊
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 21, 2022 12:43:18 GMT 12
On a related note, one thing I tried to do (but failed) was to tie another line to the halyard under load and take the weight off. So after I got my friend back down we mucked around with some ropes & knots but failed to create a suitable bite that would take over the load on a pre-loaded line. Does that make sense? There must be a well-known knot / bite that achieves this? But I don’t know it! 😊 called a rolling hitch www.animatedknots.com/rolling-hitch-knot |
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 13:05:43 GMT 12
Thanks. Interesting. I notice it says “may fail with modern ropes”. We tried a few things similar to this - but probably not this exact knot - and came tantalisingly close but didn’t nail it. Will try this out now…
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 13:11:55 GMT 12
Just tried it with the tail end of the spinny halyard I cut off - it partially works - enough friction to take a lot of load but doubt it would have held a person’s weight without some help to keep the knot ‘twisted’ on the pre-loaded line rather than letting it slip along it.
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Post by Cantab on Mar 21, 2022 13:19:15 GMT 12
On a related note, one thing I tried to do (but failed) was to tie another line to the halyard under load and take the weight off. So after I got my friend back down we mucked around with some ropes & knots but failed to create a suitable bite that would take over the load on a pre-loaded line. Does that make sense? There must be a well-known knot / bite that achieves this? But I don’t know it! 😊 called a rolling hitch www.animatedknots.com/rolling-hitch-knotPrussik loops to grab the loaded line, various styles all work good enough to bet your life on. Shackle them to a line going to a winch. Easy to adjust too. |
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Post by fish on Mar 21, 2022 14:59:21 GMT 12
Prussik knots, as Cantab said. Used in mountaineering. Small diameter rope, needs to be much smaller than the main rope. Used to ascend a fixed rope. You have two loops of smaller rope, one long and one short. The short loop is clipped to your harness. The long loop goes on the main rope above the short loop. You use this to stand up in, taking the weight off the short loop, so you can slide the knot up, sit back down in harness, slid long loop knot up, repeat until you get to the top. I actually prefer using this method to get up the mast, as it avoids any issues with winches, or risk of being dropped when they go to let me back down. That, and I've got a body of a God (Buddha) so aren't that light, and so climbing the mast myself means I don't need to con anyone into trying to winch my arse up. I'll see if I can find a video of how to tie the prussik note. It is really easy once you've seen it. Edit: The prussik is the classic of friction hitch knots. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHxQ5fiUvI |
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 15:26:21 GMT 12
There you go. Brilliantly simple & effective. Better than the rolling hitch methinks.
As we were mucking around trying various knots we talked about the fact that mountain climbers could teach us sailors a few things about clever knots but for some reason you rarely hear them being used on boats. I’ll nick this one for sure!
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 15:35:34 GMT 12
Prussik knots, as Cantab said. Used in mountaineering. Small diameter rope, needs to be much smaller than the main rope. Used to ascend a fixed rope. You have two loops of smaller rope, one long and one short. The short loop is clipped to your harness. The long loop goes on the main rope above the short loop. You use this to stand up in, taking the weight off the short loop, so you can slide the knot up, sit back down in harness, slid long loop knot up, repeat until you get to the top. I actually prefer using this method to get up the mast, as it avoids any issues with winches, or risk of being dropped when they go to let me back down. That, and I've got a body of a God (Buddha) so aren't that light, and so climbing the mast myself means I don't need to con anyone into trying to winch my arse up. I'll see if I can find a video of how to tie the prussik note. It is really easy once you've seen it. Edit: The prussik is the classic of friction hitch knots. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHxQ5fiUvIReason for getting the riding turn in the first place was that I was looking up at my friend whilst simply pressing the button on the electric winch - a big Harken 60 with nearly 2 tons pulling power I think - hence didn’t notice the problem til too late! 🙄 |
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Post by fish on Mar 21, 2022 16:07:55 GMT 12
Prussik knots, as Cantab said. Used in mountaineering. Small diameter rope, needs to be much smaller than the main rope. Used to ascend a fixed rope. You have two loops of smaller rope, one long and one short. The short loop is clipped to your harness. The long loop goes on the main rope above the short loop. You use this to stand up in, taking the weight off the short loop, so you can slide the knot up, sit back down in harness, slid long loop knot up, repeat until you get to the top. I actually prefer using this method to get up the mast, as it avoids any issues with winches, or risk of being dropped when they go to let me back down. That, and I've got a body of a God (Buddha) so aren't that light, and so climbing the mast myself means I don't need to con anyone into trying to winch my arse up. I'll see if I can find a video of how to tie the prussik note. It is really easy once you've seen it. Edit: The prussik is the classic of friction hitch knots. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHxQ5fiUvIReason for getting the riding turn in the first place was that I was looking up at my friend whilst simply pressing the button on the electric winch - a big Harken 60 with nearly 2 tons pulling power I think - hence didn’t notice the problem til too late! 🙄 Haha! that will teach you for using ya posh electric winch and not putting your back into it, bit of old fashioned sweat an toil, and you would still have a kite halyward ;-) (Says the guy who had to upgrade his boat's primary winches from Nielson 22's with no tailing, to Harken 40 self tailors. 40m2 headsail was a bit of a handful with the 22's...) Our Halyard winches are those little bronze 7's with the side winder handle. Hench why I prefer to just climb up with prussik knots. |
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Post by Fogg on Mar 21, 2022 16:51:08 GMT 12
Yeah a big electric winch can be useless (or worse) in the hands of a muppet. As I’ve demonstrated. 😊
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