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Post by fish on Sept 10, 2022 21:29:21 GMT 12
Shocking tragedy in Kaikoura. Not the outcome you'd expect on a glassy calm, settled day. Question, is it normal to get 11 people into a fizz boat? This one is 8.5 m long apparently, so big for a fizz boat, but it doesn't look that big in the photos. The CG boat looks like a beast. Noting I don't know much about fizz boats, never actually been in one. But the numbers don't sound right for a commercial boat. Close up photos of the boat at the ramp on this Stuffed article. www.stuff.co.nz/national/129844530/unprecedented-event-five-dead-after-boat-capsizes-near-kaikura-in-tragic-incident
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Post by GO30 on Sept 11, 2022 9:30:05 GMT 12
Gezzzz that's a ruff one.
8.5m is a fair sized craft and many could take 11 OK, a little crowded but doable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 18:35:26 GMT 12
This will be a interesting " story to tell"....
I'm struggling to understand......
1. How this boat flipped?
2. why the survivors in the water couldn't rescue the 5 trapped under the hull ?... Age? Ability? Knowledge?
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Post by Fogg on Sept 11, 2022 19:12:47 GMT 12
If you’re wearing a life jacket (presume they all were) turn it would be hard for anyone to get under the water to either get out if you were inside or get in to perform a rescue if you were outside.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 19:22:56 GMT 12
initial reports that a whale may of been the cause,risen for a rub,try and remove a few barnies?
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Post by fish on Sept 11, 2022 21:21:57 GMT 12
An article confirmed the boat was licensed to carry 10 passengers and one crew (the skipper) so that side is ok.
This indoctrination with life jackets drives me nuts. What would the water temp be off Kaikoura at the moment? I'm going to take a wild punt that the demofraphic of this group was not seasoned spear fisho's or surfers. Suddenly dunk them in 10 degree water, and you are going to have problems. Cold shock is a major issue. Most people can barely breath for the first 2 minutes, nor think straight. Once that passes, you have some basic issues of being fully clothed, in the water, and highly likely to be in shock (raised heartrate, adrenalin, increased blood flow) which will cool you down quickly. Combine that with (I suspect) none atheletic people, possibly non-swimmers, and you have a real issue on your hands.
LJ's are only good for finding the bodies. I'd wager that 75% of the people on this forum would struggle to swim out of a boat cabin, fully clothed, in cold water, upside down, when the very last thing they were expecting was to be upside down, under water, with cold shock, and no chance to breath up and get a good lung full of air.
The oil rig types have to do that helicopter escape training where you get dropped into a swimming pool upside down strapped in a seat in a helicopter body. All you have to do is undo you seatbelt, open the door and swim up. Mate of mines father tried it and failed. Was a professional seafarer, rode motorbikes etc. But couldn't pass the helicopter crash test.
Bird watchers don't sound like surfers, in that most surfers would be comfortable getting tumbled in a dumper, relax, hold their breath, and then wait to pop up to the surface. Not many demographics of the general population would be much good at getting out of an upside down boat cabin in this scenario I think. Add in the cold shock, and I'd say if people weren't thrown clear of the boat and naturally came up to the surface, then by the time anyone thought of trying something, it would have been too late.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2022 4:12:24 GMT 12
"Fish" IF they were wearing self inflatabes LJs no chance if trapped underneath.Once inflated then what?? I am guessing at this but being a charter vessel they would in probability be self inflating
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Post by fish on Sept 12, 2022 12:35:25 GMT 12
"Fish" IF they were wearing self inflatabes LJs no chance if trapped underneath.Once inflated then what?? I am guessing at this but being a charter vessel they would in probability be self inflating Only if they were automatic. The manual ones would actually be the best option in that situation. Agreed that a self inflating LJ would be a major hinderance if you were under the boat. I wouldn't have seen a need to wear LJ's on an 8.5m boat myself. You don't wear them on a ferry. Do charter operators use auto-self-inflating jackets, they need to be serviced which is a cost. I thought they all used the cheapest foam ones to meet the MNZ requirements. But, my main point is the LJ thing is a complete distraction. The cold shock would have most likely done many of them in. After that, you've got the basic issue of water temperature. Staying on the surface with an LJ is secondary. Even without an LJ, how many of the 11 onboard could swim out from under the cockpit of the boat, fully clothed, with a camera and 2ft telephoto lens around your neck? The fundamental problem is the boat capsizing. Once that has happened the die has been cast and there is very little you can do other than luck to influence survival. One point I don't understand, they say the boat issued a mayday at 10am. That would imply they used a VHF. If the boat capsized suddenly I don't understand how they could have got a mayday call out. The only option would be if the skipper had a handheld VHF perhaps? Could it be that they did not strike a whale? Perhaps they didn't put the bung in? A free body of water onboard can make them turn turtle quickly. I would have thought that if they did strike a whale there would have been a survivors account of that by now. Noting the Police are being super cagey, which is their job, assuming nothing, verify everything.
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Post by fish on Sept 12, 2022 13:06:27 GMT 12
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Post by ComfortZone on Sept 12, 2022 13:10:20 GMT 12
another recent incident was the Mercury Is work boat's sinking a couple of weeks ago cfm.co.nz/news/mercury-island-freighter-sinks-off-devils-point/the word from someone on the inside was they were carrying about 6 t of cement, strapped down per the photo, they were in 2m ish seas, boat did a big roll, the handrails the straps were fastened to were not man enough and failed, cargo moved and over she went. Fortunately there was a fishing boat nearby which picked up the crew
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Post by fish on Sept 12, 2022 13:25:27 GMT 12
Here is another scenario (pure conjecture, but please go with me). How do you stop 10 twitchers all running from one side of the boat to the other at the exact same time, if the elusive Sweddish booby suddenly appears?
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Post by Sea dog. on Sept 12, 2022 18:07:41 GMT 12
If you’re wearing a life jacket (presume they all were) turn it would be hard for anyone to get under the water to either get out if you were inside or get in to perform a rescue if you were outside. I'm calling bullshit on that. A competent swimmer , like me, would remove my LJ and dive to the cockpit air pocket grab the nearest person, remove their LJ,then get them outside. Easy, and I've done it several times before on capsized yachts. In UK SAR we practice this procedure.
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Post by fish on Sept 12, 2022 20:44:25 GMT 12
If you’re wearing a life jacket (presume they all were) turn it would be hard for anyone to get under the water to either get out if you were inside or get in to perform a rescue if you were outside. I'm calling bullshit on that. A competent swimmer , like me, would remove my LJ and dive to the cockpit air pocket grab the nearest person, remove their LJ,then get them outside. Easy, and I've done it several times before on capsized yachts. In UK SAR we practice this procedure. Shame you weren't at Goose Bay on Sunday then, you could have been a real hero.
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Post by GO30 on Sept 12, 2022 20:51:25 GMT 12
If you’re wearing a life jacket (presume they all were) turn it would be hard for anyone to get under the water to either get out if you were inside or get in to perform a rescue if you were outside. I'm calling bullshit on that. A competent swimmer , like me, would remove my LJ and dive to the cockpit air pocket grab the nearest person, remove their LJ,then get them outside. Easy, and I've done it several times before on capsized yachts. In UK SAR we practice this procedure. To be fair you are trained, it's unlikely the people on the boat had anything like your skills.
Also not everyone reacts fast and clearly when a sudden shits hitting the fan moment like a total unexpected capsize on a loverly day. A crowded cabin with heavily dressed, guessing there, people most likely wearing life jackets. It suddenly turns to shit with sudden and weird noises water splashing everywhere the ligth has suddenly gone strange sudden cold a sinking feeling WTF shouting which way is up? and then the person by the door freezes......
Lifejackets in the wrong place at the wrong time can kill.
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Post by ComfortZone on Sept 13, 2022 8:17:46 GMT 12
Here is another scenario (pure conjecture, but please go with me). How do you stop 10 twitchers all running from one side of the boat to the other at the exact same time, if the elusive Sweddish booby suddenly appears? This was the boat, don't know how you could get 11 people on it
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