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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 8:17:15 GMT 12
Yeah, go on, blow $100million trying to stop the tide. Nonsense that NZ ships would get banned from overseas ports. It's already in all the overseas ports. How do you think it got here in the first place?!? It is a tropical native, and there is a massive outbreak in Melbourne / Port Philip Bay. I've only watched the first 15 seconds of the Sunday programme on it so far (intending to watch it all later) but I can already tell it is some classic alarmist twaddle. The language designed to catastrophise what they are talking about. That is how they get engagement and sell advertising. There are several dozen invasive species in NZ, nature always finds its own balance. Case in point, the world hasn't ended cause of fan worm, if anything, water quality has improved. Ironically doing what a couple of billion via Auckland Council's Healthy Waters team (stormwater for the plebs) couldn't achieve. I can see it being than just a concern. They it mats together and smothers, will be starving the bottom oxygen. Fan worm attaches to things around or near the surface not smothering. Toxic to fish etc Do nothing and then complain you cant anchor in favorite bay etc.Best to spend the $$ eradicate it ,Should of got on top when first discovered. Not in the Firth yet so no worries for at the moment. And there is the little piece of alarmist misinformation. The two species we have are not toxic to fish. The species in the Med is, that's the one that escaped from the Monaco aquarium. And smothering and outcompeting the local benthic dwellers was exactly what they said fan worm would do. Same with the pacific oyster.
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Post by GO30 on Mar 12, 2024 8:28:14 GMT 12
That sums it up very well, no need to watch any further, you won't learn anything you don't already know.
Like all things it will have a critical point at which it'll die or decline. Or some predator will see a smorgasbord and move in. When that happens who knows.
That's not what any expert has said and it's not what the evidence in other regions shows. Just look at the Med... Nothing has moved in to eat it, it's still spreading and fish and shelfish stocks have plummeted to lowest levels ever. While you might be an expert on ropes you are not an expert on this. There's literally no species on the planet that eats it and can live in NZ waters. Are you somehow imagining a new species to appear in NZ?
What more could you say this doesn't? š¤¦
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Post by DuckMaster. on Mar 12, 2024 8:49:50 GMT 12
I can see it being than just a concern. They it mats together and smothers, will be starving the bottom oxygen. Fan worm attaches to things around or near the surface not smothering. Toxic to fish etc Do nothing and then complain you cant anchor in favorite bay etc.Best to spend the $$ eradicate it ,Should of got on top when first discovered. Not in the Firth yet so no worries for at the moment. And there is the little piece of alarmist misinformation. The two species we have are not toxic to fish. The species in the Med is, that's the one that escaped from the Monaco aquarium. And smothering and outcompeting the local benthic dwellers was exactly what they said fan worm would do. Same with the pacific oyster. .It is toxic to NZ fish. That's why it has no predators in New Zealand - because no NZ fish can eat it, cause it kills them! There is an extremely low risk that a NZ fish species could adapt to it, if that happens then the toxin will be stored in the fish's flesh. MPI have said that this is extremely unlikely. But yeah, it could happen. We literally need another fish species to be introduced, or get here under its own steam that can eat it - but there's none that can live in NZ waters year round. Fan worm has done exactly that, bays in Lyttleton Harbour where cray fish were once plenty, are no more because fan worm has displaced them. The Christchurch council run a very expensive program pulling fan worm out year round to try and stop its spread. I suggest you speak to any local that used to go collecting seafood, you'll then be a tad more informed of the facts.
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Post by harrytom on Mar 12, 2024 9:06:39 GMT 12
Duckmaster is correct.It is toxic to our fish hence why you no fish swimming in it or kina.Report last year claimed it can make kina sterile so not all is bad.Mussel farmers are quietly filing their pants.if it spreads to farms that's game over.
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 9:07:47 GMT 12
And there is the little piece of alarmist misinformation. The two species we have are not toxic to fish. The species in the Med is, that's the one that escaped from the Monaco aquarium. And smothering and outcompeting the local benthic dwellers was exactly what they said fan worm would do. Same with the pacific oyster. .It is toxic to NZ fish. That's why it has no predators in New Zealand - because no NZ fish can eat it, cause it kills them! There is an extremely low risk that a NZ fish species could adapt to it, if that happens then the toxin will be stored in the fish's flesh. MPI have said that this is extremely unlikely. But yeah, it could happen. We literally need another fish species to be introduced, or get here under its own steam that can eat it - but there's none that can live in NZ waters year round. Fan worm has done exactly that, bays in Lyttleton Harbour where cray fish were once plenty, are no more because fan worm has displaced them. The Christchurch council run a very expensive program pulling fan worm out year round to try and stop its spread. I suggest you speak to any local that used to go collecting seafood, you'll then be a tad more informed of the facts. Wow. The ignorance is high in this one. It appears you are mixing up caulerpa taxifolia with caulerpa brachypus and caulerpa parvifolia. taxifolia is toxic to fish. that is why it's used in aquariums, and what escaped from the Monaco aquarium. It is what is in the Med. Brachypus and parvifolia are the species in NZ. Very early on in the outbreak MPI tested these and confirmed there is no risk to eating fish in these areas, because these species are not toxic to fish. In all google search's taxifolia comes up as toxic, and often referred to as aquarium weed. Again, in all searchs the problem with brachypus and parvifolia come up as a rapidly growing, spreading and smoothering. But hay, this wouldn't be the first time you've been completely wrong on a topic related to caulerpa. Ignorance is bliss aye?
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 9:10:03 GMT 12
Duckmaster is correct.It is toxic to our fish hence why you no fish swimming in it or kina.Report last year claimed it can make kina sterile so not all is bad.Mussel farmers are quietly filing their pants.if it spreads to farms that's game over. No, MPI confirmed it is not toxic at the start of the outbreak. The reason there is no fish* there is cause all their food has been smothered. *No snapper, in all the MPI video's of caulerpa areas there are loads of fish swimming around. Mainly spotties, which aren't of interest to fisho's. So it's a better statement to say there are no fish of interest to fisho's than just 'no fish'.
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 9:42:06 GMT 12
Extract from Caulerpa risk assessment dated Sept 2023: An exotic invasive seaweed was discovered in early 2021 in shallow waters of Aotea Great Barrier Island (GBI), an iconic island about 85 km east of Auckland, rich in marine and terrestrial biodiversity, and a treasured place for MÄori. The seaweed belongs to the genus Caulerpa, and invasions in other parts of the world have spread extremely rapidly, formed dense mats, and outcompeted native species. One species, Caulerpa taxifolia, produces toxic compounds and has had significant ecosystem and human impacts in the Mediterranean. The species found at GBI were identified as the non-indigenous Caulerpa brachypus and C. parvifolia. Since their potential impact on our aquatic ecosystems were unknown, a biosecurity response was initiated. Both species were given the status of Unwanted Organisms under New Zealandās Biosecurity Act in September 2021, and legal controls came into force aimed at minimising the potential future spread of the seaweed. It was made illegal to fish, dive, or anchor a vessel in affected areas as even small fragments of Caulerpa stuck to anchors, fishing gear, and trailers can potentially spread the infestation to other areas. starboard.nz/case-study-caulerpa-biosecurity-risk-analysis/
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Post by em on Mar 12, 2024 10:11:39 GMT 12
Duckmaster is correct.It is toxic to our fish hence why you no fish swimming in it or kina.Report last year claimed it can make kina sterile so not all is bad.Mussel farmers are quietly filing their pants.if it spreads to farms that's game over. No, MPI confirmed it is not toxic at the start of the outbreak. The reason there is no fish* there is cause all their food has been smothered. *No snapper, in all the MPI video's of caulerpa areas there are loads of fish swimming around. Mainly spotties, which aren't of interest to fisho's. So it's a better statement to say there are no fish of interest to fisho's than just 'no fish'. Our boat is currently moored in the exclusion zone in BOI . I just spent 4 days on the mooring doing an anchor winch refit and had a great view of kingis and kahawai working all day all over the bay . Down side is the terns really like our solar array at smoko time . Itās bloody cool to see multiple kingis everyday cruise through the mooring field and is a positive side effect of the fishing ban in my opinion . I also saw a couple of dead tennis ball size clumps of caulerpa float past .
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 10:19:27 GMT 12
No, MPI confirmed it is not toxic at the start of the outbreak. The reason there is no fish* there is cause all their food has been smothered. *No snapper, in all the MPI video's of caulerpa areas there are loads of fish swimming around. Mainly spotties, which aren't of interest to fisho's. So it's a better statement to say there are no fish of interest to fisho's than just 'no fish'. Our boat is currently moored in the exclusion zone in BOI . I just spent 4 days on the mooring doing an anchor winch refit and had a great view of kingis and kahawai working all day all over the bay . Down side is the terns really like our solar array at smoko time . Itās bloody cool to see multiple kingis everyday cruise through the mooring field and is a positive side effect of the fishing ban in my opinion . I also saw a couple of dead tennis ball size clumps of caulerpa float past . Crikey, how could you finish your boat job with that level of distraction going on? Or was it one of those 2 hr jobs that took 4 days? Clearly you are demonstrating my statement is wrong - no fish of interest to fisho's - kahawai and kingi's are my two favourite. I think there is a substantial political element to some of these fishing and anchoring bans. Esp when the locals are allowed to fish an no-one else (as is now the case at the Barrier). If I were a local I'd be happy with that situation.
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Post by sabre on Mar 12, 2024 10:26:23 GMT 12
There is a massive and rapidly growing industry of "scientists" and iwi who are financially reliant on "biosecurity" threats, real or perceived. You would have to be incredibly gullible to take everything they say at face value.
How is everyone coping with myrtle rust? Hope you are all hanging in there..
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Post by em on Mar 12, 2024 10:39:34 GMT 12
Our boat is currently moored in the exclusion zone in BOI . I just spent 4 days on the mooring doing an anchor winch refit and had a great view of kingis and kahawai working all day all over the bay . Down side is the terns really like our solar array at smoko time . Itās bloody cool to see multiple kingis everyday cruise through the mooring field and is a positive side effect of the fishing ban in my opinion . I also saw a couple of dead tennis ball size clumps of caulerpa float past . Crikey, how could you finish your boat job with that level of distraction going on? Or was it one of those 2 hr jobs that took 4 days? Clearly you are demonstrating my statement is wrong - no fish of interest to fisho's - kahawai and kingi's are my two favourite. I think there is a substantial political element to some of these fishing and anchoring bans. Esp when the locals are allowed to fish an no-one else (as is now the case at the Barrier). If I were a local I'd be happy with that situation. I did a lot of pondering on the foredeck about how to remodel the anchor locker so the baitfish carnage was a major distraction . Parekura and Te uenga are teeming with baitfish and the top water predators and I bet you a good side of bacon thereās snapper under the workups too .
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 12, 2024 12:12:34 GMT 12
Crikey, how could you finish your boat job with that level of distraction going on? Or was it one of those 2 hr jobs that took 4 days? Clearly you are demonstrating my statement is wrong - no fish of interest to fisho's - kahawai and kingi's are my two favourite. I think there is a substantial political element to some of these fishing and anchoring bans. Esp when the locals are allowed to fish an no-one else (as is now the case at the Barrier). If I were a local I'd be happy with that situation. I did a lot of pondering on the foredeck about how to remodel the anchor locker so the baitfish carnage was a major distraction . Parekura and Te uenga are teeming with baitfish and the top water predators and I bet you a good side of bacon thereās snapper under the workups too . and the odd shark or 2 if the one (~2.5m bronzey I guess) that swam under me in Awaawaroa Bay was anything to go by. But still nothing like the shark presence in the Bay c.f Gt Barrier
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2024 12:18:03 GMT 12
So I just watched the Sunday programme. Fairly much as I expected, very emotive. Lots of mentions of 'toxic' so I can see why the easily led got led.
First point, the Irish bar and Cafe in Tryphena, both commenting how the boatie / tourism traffic to their businesses has stopped. That is a direct impact of MPI's anchoring ban, nothing to do with the environmental impact of Caulerpa. Infact, there is zero evidence throughout the piece of what the actual impact is on fish stocks, tourism or any other economic indicator.
There is one of the whitest Maori I've seen from Aotea, showing his chip on his shoulder about Takapuna, claiming if it was there it would be a different story. Conjecture.
Andrew Hoggard did state that all advise is it can't be eradicated. Internationally there is clear evidence of that statement, so hard to ping him on that. Can it be controlled? Well, they are carrying out the trial. Noting that you need to be careful the suction dredge doesn't spread it faster than not doing anything. That is a real risk. And, will the scollies and pipi's grow back faster than the caulerpa? Given the major issue with caulerpa is it's rate of growth, that is a major question the trial needs to address.
Overall, there was a lot of criticism of the govt. Nothing new there. What else could be done? Not much. I hope management with a suction dredge mitigates the impact. And if it doesn't accelerate spread it would be great to see 3 dredges working around the known hot-spots. What else can be done? Well, dropping the anchoring ban will avoid the economic impact at the Barrier, that is a fact.
What else can be done? How do you stop something that spreads on the tide?
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Post by em on Mar 12, 2024 12:27:55 GMT 12
I did a lot of pondering on the foredeck about how to remodel the anchor locker so the baitfish carnage was a major distraction . Parekura and Te uenga are teeming with baitfish and the top water predators and I bet you a good side of bacon thereās snapper under the workups too . and the odd shark or 2 if the one (~2.5m bronzey I guess) that swam under me in Awaawaroa Bay was anything to go by. But still nothing like the shark presence in the Bay c.f Gt Barrier The bronzey issue has kept me from jumping in and wiping the algae of the boat . Vis is max 2 metres on the mooring , I like to see them from a distance not at 2 metres away ! They will be there for sure with the eat all you can smorgasbord going on at the moment .
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 12, 2024 12:45:43 GMT 12
and the odd shark or 2 if the one (~2.5m bronzey I guess) that swam under me in Awaawaroa Bay was anything to go by. But still nothing like the shark presence in the Bay c.f Gt Barrier The bronzey issue has kept me from jumping in and wiping the algae of the boat . Vis is max 2 metres on the mooring , I like to see them from a distance not at 2 metres away ! They will be there for sure with the eat all you can smorgasbord going on at the moment . It's not just algae, this stuff has been growing on the bottom like crazy this summer, both in the Gulf and up north don't know what it is, not coming from barnacles (plenty of those also in the Bay as usual). Has a reddish brown colour and grows awfully fast
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