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Post by fish on Dec 1, 2023 21:58:39 GMT 12
So a few areas are no anchoring, you're not to take any biological from the area to another unless it's a fish and you need to clean any gear before it changes area. Hardly that onerous is it? Can't anchor at Redcliffs, Bradshaw Cove, Bowling Alley Bay or any of the nice anchorages on the coastline heading south to the Broken Islands, all favorite spots. Yes, I think that is quite onerous... You can anchor in any of those spots. If you have a safety issue. Biosecurity NZ have given no guidance on what constitutes a safety issue. But as we all know, the Skipper has sole responsibility for the safety of the boat... |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 2, 2023 8:21:56 GMT 12
I wouldn't have an issue if the restrictions made sense and looked like they would achieve something... Correct.
Like shutting down the Brenderwyns for 2 months so they can do 2 weeks worth of work.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 2, 2023 17:11:13 GMT 12
Can't anchor at Redcliffs, Bradshaw Cove, Bowling Alley Bay or any of the nice anchorages on the coastline heading south to the Broken Islands, all favorite spots. Yes, I think that is quite onerous... You can anchor in any of those spots. If you have a safety issue. Biosecurity NZ have given no guidance on what constitutes a safety issue. But as we all know, the Skipper has sole responsibility for the safety of the boat... Once you have anchored you need a permit to leave. So yep while your safety issue could legitimately be because of any reason you want it to be... You might have to abandon ship and swim ashore if your permit to depart doesn't arrive before the Lee shore... |
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Post by fish on Dec 2, 2023 20:26:55 GMT 12
You can anchor in any of those spots. If you have a safety issue. Biosecurity NZ have given no guidance on what constitutes a safety issue. But as we all know, the Skipper has sole responsibility for the safety of the boat... Once you have anchored you need a permit to leave. So yep while your safety issue could legitimately be because of any reason you want it to be... You might have to abandon ship and swim ashore if your permit to depart doesn't arrive before the Lee shore... I haven't seen that requirement in the latest CAN. Do you have a reference, or was that for the previous CAN that has now expired? PS, all they are going to do is tell you to check and clean your anchor. |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 3, 2023 10:17:39 GMT 12
Has anyone told us what kills this crap i.e if we pull up an anchor with lots on do we just wash it off or can we make extra sure by say spraying it with Bleach or Detergent or maybe 93% alcohol (he says thinking of a new product line he made another 4lts of yesterday  ) Just thinking some boats have complex connections (usually due the boater trying to reinvent the wheel) around the anchor which will trap nasty. If a boat has that then I can see some not being cleaned off and arriving elsewhere it shouldn't. But if there was a product we could wash all that in then maybe..... |
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Post by dutyfree on Dec 3, 2023 11:49:30 GMT 12
high salt apparently
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 3, 2023 18:32:07 GMT 12
have an email exchange between several sailing mates on this subject, one of whom is a very experienced marine biologist. His 2 emails (my underlining) 1. It’s following the usual trajectory. You can't eradicate anything in the sea once it is there and usually by the time a new species is identified it is usually already in a number of areas.
What I can’t understand is how anyone who has spent time underwater and knows the lifecycle of these critters can ever imagine that they could have any effect on the spread.
Maybe the people driving these ideas should do a desktop search to find an example of eradication somewhere else instead of expecting to be a world first.
The research seems to show invasive species numbers increase rapidly initially as they colonise a new “niche” then the numbers fall just as rapidly as natural predator numbers build up to utilise the new food available.2. I started a quick reply to your query about doing nothing about the CauIerpa and you might be interested in this article linked below. It has a pretty comprehensive summary of the problems by local scientists. If you haven’t the inclination to read it all or have seen it already you may like to skip through it again looking for the bits specifically related to eradication options. You will see that the overseas eradication examples relate to marinas. That’s no good to us where it’s spreading over hundreds af kilometres of coastline, and it also, this seaweed seems to have been here for at least several years. They also discuss herbicides (the nuclear option) and covering the infected area with canvas. Neither particularly useful suggestions as the article acknowledges.
These guys and all the other papers I have read fall back on “ monitoring and adaptive management”.
What does this mean? Monitoring is watching and seeing what happens. Fine but not much help.
Adaptive management is the best way to go in principal but I don’t see what they are suggesting in practice anywhere. I would guess they may think adaptive management would be to find out what eats this seaweed and breed up a lot of these critters whatever they were and let them go in the seaweed beds. However as we know with rabbits, possums, pine trees etc, importing these predators from the home country of a problem species can have unintended consequences in New Zealand and this would never be allowed to happen.
That only leaves one option, the predator species has to be here already. This is what I was suggesting in an earlier email.
In this case we probably don’t know what this predator species is yet, though I suspect they do. Finding out by trial and error in the lab and then learning how to breed millions of these things for release would take years and would require going through the soul destroying process of obtaining Resource Consents.
That doesn’t leave many workable options.
However, there is a way!,
The marine environment is amazingly flexible even on an annual basis and so far the many invasive species that have appeared here have turned out to have a predator or something else which will kill it one way or another already here ( eg the Pacific oyster and the Gastropod whelk, but usually these need a bit of time after the invasive species has become a problem to build op numbers that will make a difference.
There are as I have said earlier many examples of this happening over the years. There is no reason to expect that this won’t also happen with this species also, especially as we already have a number of our own native caulerpa sp here already that will have natural predators.
So, yes, I am suggesting to just leave it and it will quite quickly reach a low steady state. There really is no other option, even if I am wrong, what is plan B?
This of course is not an idea that will fly at the moment so we will have to go through the usual moves that we followed most recently with the fan worm.
The next question is, why is there so much fuss because I am sure the scientists would more or less agree with my theory. I believe the fuss is political and civil servant driven in order that they are seen to be doing something, as it must be really difficult to front the “do nothing” plan to the public. I think you will find the whole thing will die down when real serious money has to be found. In fact I think I saw something about NIWA offering a modest amount of money to the public for the best original idea. That’s a novel solution and certainly cheap.
I have had a long standing professional and recreational interest in the marine environment. I have a MSc hons degree in marine biology, thesis on feeding and reproduction in the NZ Scallop, so I guess in some eyes I could be called a marine scientist, I have years ago contributed to impact assessments on the proposed Maui oil rig, the proposed nuclear power plant sites around Auckland and the marine surveys of the Tauwharanui and Mimiwhangata regional parks before they were designated, and for the past 40 odd years farmed oysters and mussels on both sides of the island north of Auckland. I have also been involved in resource consents, especially the environmental side of these for a number of marine farms.
www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/495382/caulerpa-invasive-seaweed-threat-spreading-what-you-need-to-know
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Post by sabre on Dec 3, 2023 20:40:31 GMT 12
That sounds way too sensible CZ. Bureaucrats and iwi won't want a bar of it.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 3, 2023 20:53:08 GMT 12
Once you have anchored you need a permit to leave. So yep while your safety issue could legitimately be because of any reason you want it to be... You might have to abandon ship and swim ashore if your permit to depart doesn't arrive before the Lee shore... I haven't seen that requirement in the latest CAN. Do you have a reference, or was that for the previous CAN that has now expired? PS, all they are going to do is tell you to check and clean your anchor. Read the can again. |
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Post by fish on Dec 3, 2023 20:55:33 GMT 12
I haven't seen that requirement in the latest CAN. Do you have a reference, or was that for the previous CAN that has now expired? PS, all they are going to do is tell you to check and clean your anchor. Read the can again. If you drop anchor you need to get a permit to leave. Which CAN? Which clause? PS, If a boat sails into a bay, anchors, and sails out again, and no bureaucrat was there to see it, was it ever there? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 3, 2023 20:59:28 GMT 12
Read the can again. If you drop anchor you need to get a permit to leave. Which CAN? Which clause? PS, If a boat sails into a bay, anchors, and sails out again, and no bureaucrat was there to see it, was it ever there? Did you read the CAN again? |
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Post by fish on Dec 3, 2023 21:13:45 GMT 12
Which CAN? Which clause? PS, If a boat sails into a bay, anchors, and sails out again, and no bureaucrat was there to see it, was it ever there? Did you read the CAN again? Sometimes conversing with you is like talking to a 3 year old. Do you know there was a new CAN issued on the 30th Nov? It is substantially different to the preceding CAN. I am simply tyring to ascertain from you if you are basing your statement on knowledge from the old, now expired pre 30th Nov CAN, or if you have actually read the new CAN and understand the differences. If you are spouting off based on the old CAN I will ignore you. If you have actually read and are referring to the new CAN, then I will need to go and re read it to update my knowledge. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 3, 2023 21:38:56 GMT 12
Did you read the CAN again? Sometimes conversing with you is like talking to a 3 year old. Do you know there was a new CAN issued on the 30th Nov? It is substantially different to the preceding CAN. I am simply tyring to ascertain from you if you are basing your statement on knowledge from the old, now expired pre 30th Nov CAN, or if you have actually read the new CAN and understand the differences. If you are spouting off based on the old CAN I will ignore you. If you have actually read and are referring to the new CAN, then I will need to go and re read it to update my knowledge. Oh OK. So there's no requirement in the new can to get a permit before leaving if you had to anchor in a emergency? Do we have to do anything special? |
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Post by fish on Dec 3, 2023 22:30:54 GMT 12
Sometimes conversing with you is like talking to a 3 year old. Do you know there was a new CAN issued on the 30th Nov? It is substantially different to the preceding CAN. I am simply tyring to ascertain from you if you are basing your statement on knowledge from the old, now expired pre 30th Nov CAN, or if you have actually read the new CAN and understand the differences. If you are spouting off based on the old CAN I will ignore you. If you have actually read and are referring to the new CAN, then I will need to go and re read it to update my knowledge. Oh OK. So there's no requirement in the new can to get a permit before leaving if you had to anchor in a emergency? Do we have to do anything special? So I've gone and re-read the whole CAN again Ducky, including the appendices, and it appears you were shooting your mouth off. 6 (4) A person does not require a permit under clause 6(3) in the event of an emergency where no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired. Then, Schedule Two - Information about how to apply for a permit for 8 anchoring activity within the Controlled Areas Anchoring in emergencies Anchoring is permitted without the need to acquire a permit for the following situations: c) no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired The whole CAN and appendices (Schedules) is completely silent on this alleged need to get a permit to leave again. Given that you can fish, dive, swim, snorkel and kayak now, and all you need to do is clean your gear, as per Section 8, I'd say if you anchor, all you need to do is check and clean your anchor. The whole focus is on removing biological material. You can't take caulerpa out of the zone. You can take fish, crays, kina etc (not scollies, cause you aren't allowed to take scollies) So, reinforcing my earlier point, if Fitrzoy is full and a NE blow is coming, you can go anchor in Bowling Alley or Whangaparapara to your hearts content. Just quote 'Schedule two' of the CAN, clause C Anchoring is permitted without the need to acquire a permit for the following situations:
c) no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired.And next time Ducky, it would be great if you could get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off. www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/47557-Exotic-Caulerpa-Controlled-Area-Notice- |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 4, 2023 19:20:43 GMT 12
Oh OK. So there's no requirement in the new can to get a permit before leaving if you had to anchor in a emergency? Do we have to do anything special? So I've gone and re-read the whole CAN again Ducky, including the appendices, and it appears you were shooting your mouth off. 6 (4) A person does not require a permit under clause 6(3) in the event of an emergency where no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired. Then, Schedule Two - Information about how to apply for a permit for 8 anchoring activity within the Controlled Areas Anchoring in emergencies Anchoring is permitted without the need to acquire a permit for the following situations: c) no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired The whole CAN and appendices (Schedules) is completely silent on this alleged need to get a permit to leave again. Given that you can fish, dive, swim, snorkel and kayak now, and all you need to do is clean your gear, as per Section 8, I'd say if you anchor, all you need to do is check and clean your anchor. The whole focus is on removing biological material. You can't take caulerpa out of the zone. You can take fish, crays, kina etc (not scollies, cause you aren't allowed to take scollies) So, reinforcing my earlier point, if Fitrzoy is full and a NE blow is coming, you can go anchor in Bowling Alley or Whangaparapara to your hearts content. Just quote 'Schedule two' of the CAN, clause C Anchoring is permitted without the need to acquire a permit for the following situations:
c) no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired.And next time Ducky, it would be great if you could get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off. www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/47557-Exotic-Caulerpa-Controlled-Area-Notice-Thanks! Must have been a previous version of the CAN I was thinking of, great work looking that up, saved me a lot of effort. Most appreciated! |
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