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Post by fish on Apr 16, 2022 11:35:02 GMT 12
How often does everyone clean their heat exchangers, and what do you use / how do you do it? My Beta 35 requires annual disassembly and clean. Due to calcification, it needs it. I also have a gearbox oil HE that needs a clean (I found out yesterday, just before re-assembling everything ahead of a planned trip to Tiri today with the kids (grrrr) Getting at the HE is a pain in the arse, requires removing the alternator and half of the engine box. I've got it in my head you are supposed to mechanically clean it, i.e. scrap all the shit off. This is very hard down the tubes. On my old engine, I would pull off a pipe at each end of the system and recirculate Trac Barnacle Buster. This worked a treat. Strangely that engine (35 yr old Izuzu) didn't need annual HE maintenance. I've still got some Barnacle Buster, and used it to clean the HE, worked a treat. I'm keen to set up a 'cleaning in place' system on my new engine using phosphoric acid. I see buying more Barnacle Buster is problematic - $380 for 5 l (or 1 gallon or whatever). It is just phosphoric acid. I can get food grade 85% phosphoric acid delivered for $190. Does anyone know if there is any practical difference between Barnacle Buster and regular phosphoric acid? Is there any risk to my engine going 'off brochure' on my cleaning regime? Supplementary question, acetic acid (i.e. white vinegar) will bubble when poured on sea shells, i.e. it attacks calcium carbonate. This is clearly shit loads cheaper (and possibly a far weaker acid, meaning I need more of it). Has anyone ever heard of people cleaning their HE / cooling system with vinegar? Or, what other cheap hacks are out there for dealing with this job? www.aesnz.com/product/207-barnacle-buster-concentrate-5lwww.ecochem.co.nz/order-chemicals/uncategorised/phosphoric-acid/Edit, or 3.78 l of 75% Phosphoric acid for $107 delivered. www.brewshop.co.nz/five-star-phosphoric-acid.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu15bwZ9xHG0OGXdJfMZwCXaMVlezCDP9umEX9seYjcXcUu5d_KevjVoaAuAAEALw_wcB |
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Post by ComfortZone on Apr 16, 2022 12:14:02 GMT 12
How often does everyone clean their heat exchangers, and what do you use / how do you do it? My Beta 35 requires annual disassembly and clean. Due to calcification, it needs it. I also have a gearbox oil HE that needs a clean (I found out yesterday, just before re-assembling everything ahead of a planned trip to Tiri today with the kids (grrrr) Getting at the HE is a pain in the arse, requires removing the alternator and half of the engine box. I've got it in my head you are supposed to mechanically clean it, i.e. scrap all the shit off. This is very hard down the tubes. On my old engine, I would pull off a pipe at each end of the system and recirculate Trac Barnacle Buster. This worked a treat. Strangely that engine (35 yr old Izuzu) didn't need annual HE maintenance. I've still got some Barnacle Buster, and used it to clean the HE, worked a treat. I'm keen to set up a 'cleaning in place' system on my new engine using phosphoric acid. I see buying more Barnacle Buster is problematic - $380 for 5 l (or 1 gallon or whatever). It is just phosphoric acid. I can get food grade 85% phosphoric acid delivered for $190. Does anyone know if there is any practical difference between Barnacle Buster and regular phosphoric acid? Is there any risk to my engine going 'off brochure' on my cleaning regime? Supplementary question, acetic acid (i.e. white vinegar) will bubble when poured on sea shells, i.e. it attacks calcium carbonate. This is clearly shit loads cheaper (and possibly a far weaker acid, meaning I need more of it). Has anyone ever heard of people cleaning their HE / cooling system with vinegar? Or, what other cheap hacks are out there for dealing with this job? www.aesnz.com/product/207-barnacle-buster-concentrate-5lwww.ecochem.co.nz/order-chemicals/uncategorised/phosphoric-acid/Edit, or 3.78 l of 75% Phosphoric acid for $107 delivered. www.brewshop.co.nz/five-star-phosphoric-acid.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu15bwZ9xHG0OGXdJfMZwCXaMVlezCDP9umEX9seYjcXcUu5d_KevjVoaAuAAEALw_wcBannual cleaning seems a bit much? Certainly heard of people using white vinegar for Outboard motors and toilets, some debate (as always) on its effectiveness. There is one guy on a local fishing forum who advocates diluted Nitric Acid for outboards! I had to pull the whole HEX off my Yanmar last year because one end cap was leaking which meant corrosion. Had to get the end welded and remachined. Had the work organised by James M/Moons (Rocke did the welding), including cleaning the heat exchanger. They have a bath of citric acid they use for cleaning heat exchangers, said they had found Barnacle Buster was a bit too aggressive, was damaging seals, gaskets O Ring etc. James' advice was the best thing to do is regularly fresh water flush your engine (monthly of more), set up some sort of a 2 way valve on the water intake and draw from a big bucket, water tank etc. Recommended against directly connecting a fresh water pressure hose to the engine. He said the worst cases are engines that are left without being run for some time, this is where the chlorine in the sea water starts attacking metals |
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Post by fish on Apr 16, 2022 19:23:28 GMT 12
Ah, citric acid, that is cheap as chips and as easy to get hold of than white vinegar. 5kg for $55 delivered. 25kg for $190 delivered.
I see an experiment in the near future. I've got some old, semi used anodes, and I'll get some sea-shells (and maybe some of the lumps of calcification I pulled off my HEX) and run an experiment with the citric acid. The old anodes to see if it does any damage, and the sea-shells to see how quick it deals with calcium carbonate.
The Barnacle Buster does say the zinc anodes should be removed when using it. If there is zinc in any of the alloys I could see there is a risk it is a bit too aggressive.
I do like the idea of a fresh water flush system. Unfortunately my boat does fall into the 'not used for too long' category. We don't use it nearly enough. A system to flush a 'cleaning in place' product like citric acid would be the same as a fresh water flush system, without very much extra work.
Nitric acid sounds a bit dodgy. I expect you'd need to get the dilution just right. That, and I'm all for using the cheaper, readily available products. I can get citric acid and white vinegar from the supermarket, all be it not in big quantities. But it is the sort of thing I can pick up on the way to the boat, rather than hunt out a specialist shop for something like Barnacle Buster.
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Post by Cantab on Apr 17, 2022 8:57:44 GMT 12
I use to use nitric acid to clean bronze type heat exchangers and valves, very effective on the buildup and bits came out shiny. I recall it was pretty safe to deal with and that was partly why we used it.
Have recently used citric on big plate heat exchangers, again very effective and relatively safe, need to look out for zinc and alloys I think, iron too.
Both acids will eat what you want them too, they are probably both OK to use and dilute nicely in water.
Hydocloric is used more on steel I think, some of the commercial mixes for steel exchanger cleaning seem to be based on it.
Do a bit of research, acid vs your heat exchanger material. If it says aggressive stay away, mild long term action OK. Take your zincs out whatever you use.
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Post by dutyfree on Apr 18, 2022 12:47:19 GMT 12
I get them done very couple of years. Normally on a rotation to keep costs down. I have quite a few  Multiple engines and a genset |
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Post by ComfortZone on Apr 18, 2022 15:11:01 GMT 12
I get them done very couple of years. Normally on a rotation to keep costs down. I have quite a few  Multiple engines and a genset Hope you take special care of your aftercoolers, a failure of one of those can kill an engine. some good tips here for Cummins and Yanmar engines, especially of the turbo/aftercooled types www.sbmar.com/tonys-tips/ |
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Post by dutyfree on Apr 22, 2022 12:56:15 GMT 12
I get them done very couple of years. Normally on a rotation to keep costs down. I have quite a few Multiple engines and a genset Hope you take special care of your aftercoolers, a failure of one of those can kill an engine. some good tips here for Cummins and Yanmar engines, especially of the turbo/aftercooled types www.sbmar.com/tonys-tips/I have a very good Cummins mechanic. Every cooler and aftercooler rebuilt last year, wont tell you the cost!
Love that website, I have spent many hours reading and trying to learn stuff from it.
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Post by fish on Apr 29, 2022 10:29:43 GMT 12
Has anyone heard of Rydelyme? AES recommend it instead of Barnacle Buster. 5l is $109 compared with $330 for the BB. The MSDS shows it has a bunch of 'additives' and less than 10% Hydrochloric Acid. Their promo videos show hands getting dunked in solution without gloves, and dissolving a shell in a hand without gloves. It is slower acting, 4 hrs instead of 1 hr for the BB, which would indicate it is not as aggressive. And apparently you can get a free sample to try, which I might do (free is always good). I'm still tending towards the citric acid solution, but am still looking into it. www.rydlyme.com.au/rydlyme-marine-descaler/www.rydlyme.co.nz/files/1114/7492/9000/RYDLYME_MARINE_SDS.pdf |
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Post by fish on Apr 29, 2022 11:52:35 GMT 12
In breaking news, the supplier of my engine, The Engine Room, use Rydelyme for all their maintenance work when servicing Beta engines. So there you have it, I discovered it yesterday, and have confirmed today it is the one to use. Whats more, I can actually almost afford it :-)
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Multiple engines and a genset
Multiple engines and a genset