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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2022 14:40:40 GMT 12
It's two ends of the spectrum.
Which country would you prefer to have an ultimate controlling power over your life?
Which country do you feel is aligned with your best interests?
Which country would you prefer to live under the influence of?
China is coming, China will displace the USA.
If you think you'd be better off under the thumb of the USA than the thumb of China then pushing back on China's plan for global influence makes sense.
The only thing certain is that things will be very different under Chinese influence than they currently are under US influence. What that difference will amount to, no one truly knows, but we humans generally don't like change so we push back.
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Post by eri on Jul 15, 2022 15:17:34 GMT 12
1 of the greatest advances of western politics is enforced leader term-limits now that both russian and chinese strong-men have/are quietly ignoring their term limits, the despots of africa are quietly following suit........... to the detriment of 90% of africansosisa.org/termlimits-in-africa/and if the chinese get into kiribati and the kiribati then decide they want them outguess what'll happen to free and fair elections and any chance of a peaceful transition of power?dictators install puppet leaders who lock up anyone who protestsas is happening in hong kong with the chinese promises made by previous leaders being ignored by Xi just as putin is ignoring the promises by previous russian leaders to respect ukraine's independence...in exchange for the nuclear weaponsso expect more countries to go nuclear and ignore promises from "leaders-for-life" that they won't be invaded and so lift the chance of a nuclear attack somewhere .... poor shrilanka? sliding into the financial abyss after financial mismanagement and chaotic governance will the chinese lease bases there and prop up the gov. who the people have now clearly rejected will they go back into another civil war and kill 100,000s?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2022 15:25:43 GMT 12
were you to live in china with your penchant for slagging off the gov. you would have been locked up and subject to some serious re-education and if you were able to hold your tongue, the brainwashing would nevertheless be relentless yip. US over China all day long
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Post by eri on Jul 16, 2022 9:36:20 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Jul 16, 2022 11:37:52 GMT 12
The basic problem you all have with this arguement is that you are all being hypocritical. You are criticizing China for starting to do a fraction of what the US has been doing for a very long time, regards foreign policy and influence. You have no basis to criticize China for what they are doing, unless you criticize the US as well.
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Post by eri on Jul 16, 2022 11:56:02 GMT 12
nothing's perfect, few things are black or white but we should be allowed to choose between lighter or darker shades of grey as we see them i choose america over china you can choose what you like
and we are allowed to make these choices because we live in a western democracy
the uighurs, those from hong kong and many mainland chinese are not allowed many of the choices we take for granted
because it doesn't fit with Xi's increasingly authoritarian chinese communist party doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 12:13:45 GMT 12
The basic problem you all have with this arguement is that you are all being hypocritical. You are criticizing China for starting to do a fraction of what the US has been doing for a very long time, regards foreign policy and influence. You have no basis to criticize China for what they are doing, unless you criticize the US as well. This isn't about critizing China or the US over their expansion and growth. This is about the world you want to live in. There's always going to be a global leader. There's always going to be a country that exerts influence on more of the world than any other country does. Right now that's the US. Do you want China pulling the strings in NZ?
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Post by fish on Jul 16, 2022 14:17:42 GMT 12
The basic problem you all have with this arguement is that you are all being hypocritical. You are criticizing China for starting to do a fraction of what the US has been doing for a very long time, regards foreign policy and influence. You have no basis to criticize China for what they are doing, unless you criticize the US as well. This isn't about critizing China or the US over their expansion and growth. This is about the world you want to live in. There's always going to be a global leader. There's always going to be a country that exerts influence on more of the world than any other country does. Right now that's the US. Do you want China pulling the strings in NZ? China has been pulling strings in NZ for a very very long time. The Right Honorable John Key cossied up to them nicely. Sold half the country to them. Why buy the milk when you can buy the cow? Why buy the timber when you can buy the forest? Then consequently ignore all of the environmental controls and let the entire East Coast get decimated by slash and slips washing down every time it rains. China already has far greater economic influence in NZ than the US ever had. PS, not saying I like it, just pointing out facts.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 14:55:59 GMT 12
This isn't about critizing China or the US over their expansion and growth. This is about the world you want to live in. There's always going to be a global leader. There's always going to be a country that exerts influence on more of the world than any other country does. Right now that's the US. Do you want China pulling the strings in NZ? China has been pulling strings in NZ for a very very long time. The Right Honorable John Key cossied up to them nicely. Sold half the country to them. Why buy the milk when you can buy the cow? Why buy the timber when you can buy the forest? Then consequently ignore all of the environmental controls and let the entire East Coast get decimated by slash and slips washing down every time it rains. China already has far greater economic influence in NZ than the US ever had. PS, not saying I like it, just pointing out facts. Totally agree. And as I already pointed out. China is coming. But the longer we can hold them off the more chance they might change. Eg, go the way of the ussr.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 3:25:38 GMT 12
nothing's perfect, few things are black or white but we should be allowed to choose between lighter or darker shades of grey as we see them i choose america over china you can choose what you like
and we are allowed to make these choices because we live in a western democracy
the uighurs, those from hong kong and many mainland chinese are not allowed many of the choices we take for granted
because it doesn't fit with Xi's increasingly authoritarian chinese communist party doctrine
man!! Well said again. Communism or democracy. Try owning or sailing a boat in China v USA.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 3:28:05 GMT 12
China has been pulling strings in NZ for a very very long time. The Right Honorable John Key cossied up to them nicely. Sold half the country to them. Why buy the milk when you can buy the cow? Why buy the timber when you can buy the forest? Then consequently ignore all of the environmental controls and let the entire East Coast get decimated by slash and slips washing down every time it rains. China already has far greater economic influence in NZ than the US ever had. PS, not saying I like it, just pointing out facts. Totally agree. And as I already pointed out. China is coming. But the longer we can hold them off the more chance they might change. Eg, go the way of the ussr. what crap! When has communism ever dominated the free world... Only in shit hole dumb ass places like Kiribati.... And for what .. money! Low morals country's selling their soul for a few$$$$
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 11:48:37 GMT 12
Totally agree. And as I already pointed out. China is coming. But the longer we can hold them off the more chance they might change. Eg, go the way of the ussr. what crap! When has communism ever dominated the free world... Only in shit hole dumb ass places like Kiribati.... And for what .. money! Low morals country's selling their soul for a few$$$$ Well then let them move into our backyard. Let them control the largest marine area north of us. Let them fuck over our fishing. If they move into our back yard things will change. In the same way as it changed for all the countries surrounding the South China sea
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 12:38:16 GMT 12
Don't be so dumb.
China will never do that while their are international laws/. Territorial waters, trade agreements...
Democratic nations will always remain dominant while humans want freedom.
And,vRemember China has one huge Achilles heal!...
If the west stops manufacture in China and stops importation of Chinese goods... and hands it to India or Vietnam China will fold.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 12:51:30 GMT 12
Don't be so dumb. China will never do that while their are international laws/. Territorial waters, trade agreements... Democratic nations will always remain dominant while humans want freedom. And,vRemember China has one huge Achilles heal!... If the west stops manufacture in China and stops importation of Chinese goods... and hands it to India or Vietnam China will fold. Goods were made in Thailand/vietnam/Phillipines and Yes we even made goods in NZ but the mighty $$ ruled and we have our goods made china,export the product and buy it back as funiture etc,hell that plastic toy your child has was more than likely made from our exported waste,not direct to china but too some back n beyond place north of hong kong where child labour sorts the waste. 900 ton Tuna caught in Vanuatu EEZ and offloaded by Sinovan in Fiji with no declaration to the Vanuatu Government by the Chinese partners. The 900 ton of fish offloaded last year was declared by the Vanuatu Fisheries Department whilst Sinovan went tight lip on the issue and did not even pay 1 cent dividend to Vanuatu.Sinovan in Fiji chinese .Who is financing a new wharf in Vanuatu?? China gave Tonga a plane with no strings attached yeah right. China always supports providing assistance, without political conditions, to island nations," the ministry wrote in response to questions from The Associated Press. China said it wanted to help "accelerate economic and social development" and improve people's lives in the Pacific, none of which was directed at forming political or military alliances. Think I will take my chances with Americans thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 15:57:10 GMT 12
Don't be so dumb. China will never do that while their are international laws/. Territorial waters, trade agreements... Democratic nations will always remain dominant while humans want freedom. And,vRemember China has one huge Achilles heal!... If the west stops manufacture in China and stops importation of Chinese goods... and hands it to India or Vietnam China will fold. I assume that's tounge in cheek right? You've seen what's happened in the south China sea? You've seen other nations effective eez's 'shrink' due to China's claims? (Not on paper, but in reality) You've seen China declare that what was once international waters is now theirs? With complete disregard for international law. You've seen that China has driven other fishing boats out of the territory they are now claiming as their own? The only country standing up to China is the US. And they are doing a piss poor job at it and eventually they will fall away due to Americans having no interest in the scs and China will have expanded.
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