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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 6, 2024 21:09:04 GMT 12
more Greens hypocrisy
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 8, 2024 11:23:31 GMT 12
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Post by muzled on Jun 17, 2024 20:39:34 GMT 12
Trotter democracyproject.substack.com/p/going-for-blokeTHE DANGERS of designing a prescriptive constitution are currently on stark display in the Green Party. No doubt with the best will in the world, and anxious to be seen as a good Tiriti partner, the Greens have burdened themselves with a constitutional requirement that at least one of their co-leaders must be a woman, and one a Māori. Confronted with the sad news of current co-leader Marama Davidson’s cancer diagnosis, and the possibility of being tasked with choosing a new co-leader, Green Party members are left facing a self-inflicted conundrum. The Party’s other co-leader, Chloe Swarbrick, is a Pakeha woman. That means that any person nominated to succeed Marama Davidson must also be Māori. Instantly, the pool of possible candidates is reduced from thirteen to five: Teanau Tuiono, Hūhana Lyndon, Kahurangi Carter, Darleen Tana and Tamatha Paul. (Assuming the party prefers its co-leader to be an elected Member of Parliament.) Now, it is entirely possible that the Green MP best placed to co-lead the party is one of these five individuals, but that cannot be guaranteed. The party’s constitution could very easily leave Green Party members in the unenviable position of having to choose an MP they do not believe to be the best person to co-lead them. To hold this view, however, a Green Party member would have to misunderstand, fundamentally, the purpose of the rule. The whole point of mandating at least one Māori co-leader is to ensure that the principle of partnership, embedded in Te Tiriti, is manifested in the co-leadership of the Greens. The purpose of the rule has nothing to do with finding “the best person” to co-lead the party, but to ensure that the tangata whenua are represented in the leadership team. Because, for it to be possible not to have tangata whenua represented in the leadership team, will, justifiably, be construed as confirmation that the rules of the game remain the rules of the coloniser. But, if this explanation justifies the requirement that at least one of the two co-leaders be Māori, what explanation can the Greens offer for there not being a rule mandating that at least one of the co-leaders be a man? If the absence of Māori in the co-leadership team would signal that Te Tiriti is not being honoured, then what would the absence of a man signal? That half the human species has no guarantee of being represented on the leadership team? That the presence of a man on the team is fortuitous – not mandatory? That, if he makes the team at all, it will most likely be because he has something else going for him – like being Māori? Once again, in advancing these ideas a Green Party member would be demonstrating a deficient understanding of how power is distributed in New Zealand society. This country is, first and foremost, a patriarchy. The masculine principle trumps all others. Yes, women can rise to high places in New Zealand – all the way to Prime Minister – but the big decisions: economically, socially, politically; are made in rooms where women, if they are there at all, are decisively outnumbered by men. If a party is determined to strike a blow against patriarchy, as the Green Party most certainly is, then to make it mandatory for a man to be on the leadership team would be the worst kind of betrayal. It would be tantamount to saying that: “No matter how many concessions you make to women and Māori, doing without a man at the top is simply not an option. Somebody has got to convey the impression that at least one person in the Greens knows which way is up!” Rightly or wrongly, there will be many Greens who review James Shaw’s performance in the “Male” co-leadership role and conclude that the sentiments expressed above were, subliminally if not explicitly, the sentiments Shaw communicated to the electorate. Marama Davidson may have been down on “Cis White Males”, but without Shaw, their very own Cis White Male, in the co-leadership role, anybody who wasn’t already irretrievably “woke” would have struggled to take the Greens seriously. Slaying that stereotypical patriarchal dragon is the task to which every Green knight is expected to commit himself. In 2024, any male showing signs of harbouring an ambition to become co-leader of the party will likely discover that he has automatically disqualified himself from the job. So, if Marama Davidson is forced to step away from the co-leadership for health reasons, who is the Māori Green MP most likely to replace her? At this point, it is probably safe to rule out Darleen Tana, who remains embroiled in an ongoing investigation and is currently suspended from the Green Caucus. Huhana Lyndon and Kahurangi Carter, both first term MPs, would likely rule themselves out of contention. That leaves the party with just two eligible candidates: Teanau Tuiono and Tamatha Paul. ….This column continues below for fully paid subscribers. To access this, please consider subscribing: Subscribed The problem with Tamatha Paul, who is otherwise the most qualified candidate for the top job – with significant political experience as a Wellington City Councillor, and having won the seat of Wellington Central off the Labour Party, is that in replacing Marama Davidson she would leave the Greens looking very much the same as it has since the departure of James Shaw. Teanau Tuiono, notwithstanding all the caveats listed above, would restore gender balance to the Green leadership in the proud tradition of Rod Donald, Russel Norman and Shaw. Constitutional prescriptions may be well-intentioned, but they are a poor substitute for political choices that work for the party electorally – not against it. Voters struggle to support a party that does not appear to like or want people like themselves. Ideologically-speaking, two women at the top of the Green Party may make perfect sense. But, in the polling booth – not so much. The Greens’ already large gender-gap is unlikely to grow any smaller with Chloe Swarbrick and Tamatha Paul at the helm. Labour will not drift forever in the shallows of indecision, and any recovery of social-democratic nerve will strip away disgruntled Labourites from the Green Party in droves. If the votes of progressive males are still deemed to be worth attracting to the Green cause, then – constitution or no constitution – Teanau Tuiono’s ethnicity will likely count for much less than his gender.
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Post by eri on Jun 17, 2024 21:20:40 GMT 12
in theory
'theory' and 'practice'
should be the same
but they rarely ever are
not because 'practice', (the acid test of reality), is wrong
but because 'theory', (attempts to guess mysterious inner-workings) is accurate
the greens are probably nz's most ideologically driven main party
in any conflict between 'theory-dogma' and 'practice-reality'
they avoid blaming their politics, insteading blaming some or all of the people for not being enlightened enough...these are the same subset of people drawn to cults
it never ends well
which is why the germans, who LOVE dogma and also largely invented the political greens
also gave us
Realpolitik
Realpolitik is the approach of conducting diplomatic or political policies based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors,
rather than strictly following ideological, moral, or ethical premises.
In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism. It is often simply referred to as pragmatism in politics
but there seems little to suggest
that the green zealots
are in any way
interested in the reality of a democracy
revolution? YES, the hardcore would love a good revolution
fortunately for the world
they are currently balanced by part-timer green supporters
who KNOW how destructive that would be for EVERYONE
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 18, 2024 19:37:32 GMT 12
not belittling her situation (have had family and friends in same/worse situation), but
a couple of related comments from BFD General Debate Because it was a PR stunt looking for sympathy, nothing more. Well she gets no sympathy from me, I have watched that nasty piece of work in action for quite a number of years now and as usual she has made it all about herself. My sympathy goes to the thousands of women in NZ who get the same diagnosis but soldier on, unmentioned and unknown and more than likely without preferential treatment/diagnosis that I strongly suspect Davidson received because of who she is. There I have said it, think what you will but I think there will be many who agree with me, very many. and
I genuinely feel for anyone delivered the news of cancer diagnosis, in particular for her husband and children. I hope Davidson truely understands the position of privilege she is in. The majority of cancer patients are not able to take the months off work on full pay like a politician can. Most are placed under enormous financial strain, which affects their ability to remain positive and stress free. Regardless of race. Women I know have been reduced to a sickness benefit, or the one income of their partner. Surviving cancer financially breaks many families. Yet a drunk who crashes their car and requires months of rehabilitation receives ACC and 80% of their pay packet. My dislike of Davidson’s politics and racism will be watching to see if she does acknowledge just how very privileged her financial position is. I will also be watching her expense claims. It would not be appropriate for taxpayers to fund her to attend protests by example.
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Post by muzled on Jun 18, 2024 20:00:24 GMT 12
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 19, 2024 10:40:41 GMT 12
and still more Greens hypocrisy, from BFD General Debate
A Tale of Two Wheels, and Two Words. The great, good, and very green WCCP steamrolled a cycleway. Away! They said: all car parking on main thoroughfare Adelaide Rd. No, no! Cried the businesses thereat and thereabouts. No consultation said they. Naff, said WCCP. In went cycleway, down went businesses. Up went an apartment complex, 93 units, just 12 carparks. Residents now hog most parking off Adelaide Rd side-streets, there's nowhere to park, to be sure. The apartment block has 3 ground floor retail/office spaces which no-one in their right mind will rent now, since no parking, oh; hold my beer...I said people in their right mind - one unit leased: to the Green Party. Oh, joy! Said the Green Party, a shiny new office, at very low rent. We must have a knees-up to celebrate our good luck, inviting Green-people from far and wide. But, how will they come? On foot, on skates, on scooters, on public transport? Don't be stupid, most will come by car, said one wise Greenie (somewhat of an anomaly); but where, oh where will they park? Casting their eyes eastward, across the road, Greens saw surviving businesses that had what they coveted - off-street parking. Ideal. We'll simply ask those nice people to allow our nice people to park their Eco-dunga's on those spaces while our soiree's underway. Emissary's were charged with the dangerous mission of crossing the road bearing the Green's (very humble) request and enquired of the owners, 'can we nice Greens, use your nice car-parks, it's only for two hours?'
In reply to the Greens the car-park landlords and lady's had only Two Words and From the article/The Post..(for added clarity) MPs Julie Anne Genter and Tamatha Paul asking if they could use his car parks for an event they were hosting. He, and a manager at the nearby Repco, refused to let the party use their car parks. She said the Green parking request was “farcical and underlined as ridiculous” and the party should have practised what they preached by getting people to events on public transport, bikes or scooters. “Patients, caregivers and staff of Wellington hospital are displaced as their parking has been removed,” Bhana said. “Shift workers are having difficulty yet the Greens want to have a shindig and beg for parking. “The facileness and hypocrisy of Julie Anne Genter never ceases to bowl me over.”
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Post by fish on Jun 19, 2024 11:52:46 GMT 12
and still more Greens hypocrisy, from BFD General Debate
A Tale of Two Wheels, and Two Words. The great, good, and very green WCCP steamrolled a cycleway. Away! They said: all car parking on main thoroughfare Adelaide Rd. No, no! Cried the businesses thereat and thereabouts. No consultation said they. Naff, said WCCP. In went cycleway, down went businesses. Up went an apartment complex, 93 units, just 12 carparks. Residents now hog most parking off Adelaide Rd side-streets, there's nowhere to park, to be sure. The apartment block has 3 ground floor retail/office spaces which no-one in their right mind will rent now, since no parking, oh; hold my beer...I said people in their right mind - one unit leased: to the Green Party. Oh, joy! Said the Green Party, a shiny new office, at very low rent. We must have a knees-up to celebrate our good luck, inviting Green-people from far and wide. But, how will they come? On foot, on skates, on scooters, on public transport? Don't be stupid, most will come by car, said one wise Greenie (somewhat of an anomaly); but where, oh where will they park? Casting their eyes eastward, across the road, Greens saw surviving businesses that had what they coveted - off-street parking. Ideal. We'll simply ask those nice people to allow our nice people to park their Eco-dunga's on those spaces while our soiree's underway. Emissary's were charged with the dangerous mission of crossing the road bearing the Green's (very humble) request and enquired of the owners, 'can we nice Greens, use your nice car-parks, it's only for two hours?'
In reply to the Greens the car-park landlords and lady's had only Two Words and From the article/The Post..(for added clarity) MPs Julie Anne Genter and Tamatha Paul asking if they could use his car parks for an event they were hosting. He, and a manager at the nearby Repco, refused to let the party use their car parks. She said the Green parking request was “farcical and underlined as ridiculous” and the party should have practised what they preached by getting people to events on public transport, bikes or scooters. “Patients, caregivers and staff of Wellington hospital are displaced as their parking has been removed,” Bhana said. “Shift workers are having difficulty yet the Greens want to have a shindig and beg for parking. “The facileness and hypocrisy of Julie Anne Genter never ceases to bowl me over.”
I was just coming to post that story. I can't believe it. It's not April 1st. You can't make this shit up. Noting it's on Stuff's front page too I'm sure it's part of the Green's plan to stay in the spotlight. Any news is good news and all that... www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350314795/how-green-mps-hit-trouble-their-own-cycleway/?utm_source=stuff_article&utm_medium=referral
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 19, 2024 13:00:04 GMT 12
and still waiting for the Darleen Tana report... www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/06/95_days_and_counting.html#commentsA month ago I blogged: There is no way the investigation will have taken nine weeks. The Uffindell investigation took only five weeks to complete, and that was dealing with events from 20 years ago where witnesses had to be tracked down. Almost certainly the Green leadership have the report, and have had it for some time. They don’t need to release the report, but they do need to tell us whether it substantiated the claims against Tana, and what the outcome will be.
It has now been 95 days with Tana on full pay. I’ve been a board chair where we have had to have a barrister investigate issues around employment allegations. We got the report within a fortnight or so.....
Based on the reticence to release the report I think a reasonable person would conclude she is a guilty as hell and they are just dragging this out as long as possible so she can keep leaching off the taxpayer!
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Post by muzled on Jun 19, 2024 13:54:38 GMT 12
and still waiting for the Darleen Tana report... www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/06/95_days_and_counting.html#commentsA month ago I blogged: There is no way the investigation will have taken nine weeks. The Uffindell investigation took only five weeks to complete, and that was dealing with events from 20 years ago where witnesses had to be tracked down. Almost certainly the Green leadership have the report, and have had it for some time. They don’t need to release the report, but they do need to tell us whether it substantiated the claims against Tana, and what the outcome will be.
It has now been 95 days with Tana on full pay. I’ve been a board chair where we have had to have a barrister investigate issues around employment allegations. We got the report within a fortnight or so.....
Based on the reticence to release the report I think a reasonable person would conclude she is a guilty as hell and they are just dragging this out as long as possible so she can keep leaching off the taxpayer!
It's almost surprising they didn't release her report the day before Marama media orchestration...
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Post by eri on Jun 19, 2024 17:04:53 GMT 12
you get the feeling she's fighting it hard
best job she's ever had and no other job on the horizon...
her lawyers will argue the 'crime' was largely her husband's and not hers
+ just because she seemed fully aware of it, shouldn't make her responsible for it, in the eyes of the law and a judge
however for the green's 'holier-than-thou' brand
a youthful mp being involved in defrauding migrants in a green business
isn't tolerable
so which wealthy donor is going to buy her out
if chloe doesn't have the balls to sack her?
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Post by fish on Jun 19, 2024 18:26:16 GMT 12
if chloe doesn't have the balls to sack her? Never heard of the Greens sacking anyone. Not sure if their constitution allows it. But, serious question, can a party sack a list MP? I don't think they can. Once in parliament, the MP is the MP. So a party can chuck an MP out, and they stay on as an independent. Convention has it that they resign. But there us no rule, you can't force a resignation. This is why Luzon removes any portfolios or Ministerial warrants off dip-shits, but doesn't actually remove them as an MP. He makes it clear their career with the party is over, and they normally slink of quietly. So if Dana wont resign, what do the Greens do? Am I correct a party can't sack a list MP? I know they can't sack an electorate MP. Do they have to take charges to the Privileges Committee and ask Parliament to sack the MP (which would of course be hugely embarrassing for said party in the first place).
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 19, 2024 19:15:32 GMT 12
if chloe doesn't have the balls to sack her? Am I correct a party can't sack a list MP? I know they can't sack an electorate MP. Do they have to take charges to the Privileges Committee and ask Parliament to sack the MP (which would of course be hugely embarrassing for said party in the first place). This is an interesting question and from a web crawl it appears a party cannot directly sack a list MP, who after all has been sworn in as an MP regardless of how they go there. However the case of Donna Awatere is precedent that an MP can eventually be removed, from Wiki
In 2003 Awatere Huata was expelled from the ACT party on allegations of fraud regarding the Pipi Foundation charity, which at the time was under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office.[5] Subsequently, there were a series of legal battles around Awatere Huata's right to remain in parliament as an independent list MP. These culminated in one of the Supreme Court's first major decisions in 2004 and she was removed from Parliament,[6] giving the ACT Party a new MP, Kenneth Wang until the 2005 New Zealand election.
I believe the "Waka" jumping legislation acts as a restraint on a list MP jumping ship, but does not provide for their removal eg that MP who quite the Labour party last year for TMP, she still remained in parliament until the election
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Post by fish on Jun 19, 2024 19:40:22 GMT 12
Am I correct a party can't sack a list MP? I know they can't sack an electorate MP. Do they have to take charges to the Privileges Committee and ask Parliament to sack the MP (which would of course be hugely embarrassing for said party in the first place). This is an interesting question and from a web crawl it appears a party cannot directly sack a list MP, who after all has been sworn in as an MP regardless of how they go there. However the case of Donna Awatere is precedent that an MP can eventually be removed, from Wiki
In 2003 Awatere Huata was expelled from the ACT party on allegations of fraud regarding the Pipi Foundation charity, which at the time was under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office.[5] Subsequently, there were a series of legal battles around Awatere Huata's right to remain in parliament as an independent list MP. These culminated in one of the Supreme Court's first major decisions in 2004 and she was removed from Parliament,[6] giving the ACT Party a new MP, Kenneth Wang until the 2005 New Zealand election.
I believe the "Waka" jumping legislation acts as a restraint on a list MP jumping ship, but does not provide for their removal eg that MP who quite the Labour party last year for TMP, she still remained in parliament until the election
So the reality of the situation is, if the allegations are proven against Darleen Tana (which they have been in the media), or at the very least don't meet the very high wokeness threshold of the Green Party, and the Green leadership release that report, they are going to have a festering shitfest on their hands until the next election. They could expel her from the party, then they loose her tything and have to put up with an independent MP rolling around Parliament like a noose around the Green's neck highlighting how hypocritical they are. They are left with a problem they can't get rid of in one news cycle, like GG or the crazy LGBT academic, or the last leader admitting to benefit fraud, or the one or two I've missed. Not to mention the one that just up and died. So, far better to just sit on the report and put up with some low level sniping about how the report should be out now, rather than rip the scab off the festering sore and deal with it in any principled way.
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Post by eri on Jun 19, 2024 19:41:14 GMT 12
so presumably
if she doesn't get the money she wants to go quietly
she hangs around the greens neck like an albatross
while the migrant exploitation claim works its way through the courts
the media will love that
...
"hey green leader1b, what's happening with dana?"
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
"does she have your confidence then?"
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
"how long will the case take?
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
"what if she's found guilty?"
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
"why should the public have confidence in you if you are powerless to discipline your own mps?"
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...but i'm here today to talk about our new policies!
"sorry, out of time"
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