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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 27, 2022 17:07:55 GMT 12
these seem to be getting tighter and tighter. I was making enquiries for an owner who is overseas with a boat at Westhaven. Pier 21 has been sold and their yard is closed, at least for now, if not permanently. Gloss Boats have relocated to the Marina Park facility in Mt Wellington - fine for launches but not for yachts.
I spoke with Orams, they said they are only taking bookings for November onwards.
Half Moon Bay have their fancy sheds but that has actually reduced the number of boats they can handle. Gulf Harbour have been expanding their dry stack storage to the detriment of hard stand. Akarana and Council are doing their worst to shut down the Landing at Okahu Bay. Northcote Point club yard is under attack by council and NIMBY's
Fewer and fewer yards for more and more boats....
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Post by Cantab on Jul 27, 2022 17:51:07 GMT 12
Is this the same Council and Nimbys that want your boat cleaned and painted up to regulation standard at all times?
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Post by em on Jul 27, 2022 19:36:43 GMT 12
these seem to be getting tighter and tighter. I was making enquiries for an owner who is overseas with a boat at Westhaven. Pier 21 has been sold and their yard is closed, at least for now, if not permanently. Gloss Boats have relocated to the Marina Park facility in Mt Wellington - fine for launches but not for yachts. I spoke with Orams, they said they are only taking bookings for November onwards. Half Moon Bay have their fancy sheds but that has actually reduced the number of boats they can handle. Gulf Harbour have been expanding their dry stack storage to the detriment of hard stand. Akarana and Council are doing their worst to shut down the Landing at Okahu Bay. Northcote Point club yard is under attack by council and NIMBY's Fewer and fewer yards for more and more boats.... Whangarei ! Nice muddy creek and that Docks of Belfast feel about it like Beaumont street had about 25 years ago . Cantab will know more than me but I think you have the choice of at least 6 handstand yards and at least 3 painting outfits and a shed load of engineering mobs . |
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Post by fish on Jul 27, 2022 21:33:21 GMT 12
I've never really thought haul out facilities on prime downtown land is a good use of space, referencing the ones around Westhaven. Putting them in industrial areas accessed by water is logical. Major issue when these marinas start doing the apartment thing. Residential areas and noisy dust producing work like maintaining a boat tend not to go together too well. That land around Westhaven is in the heart of the city, and worth moonbeams per square meter. Up the Tamaki seems like a good idea, shame about the bridge and exclusion of blow boats though. Guess their revenue base is well covered with stink pots.
I'm always happy I'm a member at Weiti when I see posts like this. Can haul up to 10 ton, need to be a member, and its all the old fashioned way with a cradle, a tractor and a high tide. We've even got a fancy pants wastewater treatment system to meet the latest in Council Enviro requirements (will be paying it off for 1 or 2 hundred years, but now we can remove antifoul again).
I'd be curious to know what some of the more random spots are like at the moment. Robertsons - understand the brothers have sorted their issues now (or one bought the other out at a public auction). The yard at Manga Rd, Silverdale, accessible way up the Weiti at high tide. The old Stevensons yard up Weiti, where the crane toppled over before Christmas. Dropped a cat on a launch, or was it a launch on a cat?
Bit more of a faff to get too, but if you are doing anything much more than a bum tickle, quiet possibly worth the effort to access in dollars saved.
And if you are only doing a bum tickle, there is always the option of drying out on poles / grid. There are still a few around you can use.
Must be hard if you are an absentee owner though. Wonder if those professional boat valet companies have better connections to make these things happen?
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 27, 2022 23:50:03 GMT 12
I've never really thought haul out facilities on prime downtown land is a good use of space, referencing the ones around Westhaven. Putting them in industrial areas accessed by water is logical. Major issue when these marinas start doing the apartment thing. Residential areas and noisy dust producing work like maintaining a boat tend not to go together too well. That land around Westhaven is in the heart of the city, and worth moonbeams per square meter. Up the Tamaki seems like a good idea, shame about the bridge and exclusion of blow boats though. Guess their revenue base is well covered with stink pots. I'm always happy I'm a member at Weiti when I see posts like this. Can haul up to 10 ton, need to be a member, and its all the old fashioned way with a cradle, a tractor and a high tide. We've even got a fancy pants wastewater treatment system to meet the latest in Council Enviro requirements (will be paying it off for 1 or 2 hundred years, but now we can remove antifoul again). I'd be curious to know what some of the more random spots are like at the moment. Robertsons - understand the brothers have sorted their issues now (or one bought the other out at a public auction). The yard at Manga Rd, Silverdale, accessible way up the Weiti at high tide. The old Stevensons yard up Weiti, where the crane toppled over before Christmas. Dropped a cat on a launch, or was it a launch on a cat? Bit more of a faff to get too, but if you are doing anything much more than a bum tickle, quiet possibly worth the effort to access in dollars saved. And if you are only doing a bum tickle, there is always the option of drying out on poles / grid. There are still a few around you can use. Must be hard if you are an absentee owner though. Wonder if those professional boat valet companies have better connections to make these things happen? Remember St Mary's Bay was Auckland's principal maritime industrial area in days gone by, the city has grown to reach it.. Other haulouts that come to mind (besides the main yards) from North to South for the gulf area Sandspit Yacht Club can haul 12t and approx 2 m draft on the trailer, principally for members but non members can use Robertson's is indeed all sorted and will hopefully now see some investment, can lift cats to approx 9m beam, draft limited to ~3m by Mahurangi River Mahurangi marina (the old Cement Works), just downstream from Robertsons, has their "sling lift", they say they can haul 21t, not sure if I would go that heavy Weiti River - as you mention the Boating Club, the yard where the crane fell over and Fusion Marine at the end of Manga Rd Silverdale Milford - The Slipway (the old Gladden Yard) and Milford Cruising Club Northcote Point - club Te Atatu boating Club - Whau River - above motorway bridges Bucklands Beach Yacht Club - members only Panmure Yacht Club Leader Boatbuilders - Tamaki River -above Panmure Bridge Shelly Park Yacht Club - members only Thames Sailing Club - I heard there is a commercial painter working there found this list, not complete, but with some detail www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/environment/plants-animals/pests-weeds/Documents/haulout-hardstand-directory.pdf |
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Post by em on Jul 28, 2022 8:07:08 GMT 12
these seem to be getting tighter and tighter. I was making enquiries for an owner who is overseas with a boat at Westhaven. Pier 21 has been sold and their yard is closed, at least for now, if not permanently. Gloss Boats have relocated to the Marina Park facility in Mt Wellington - fine for launches but not for yachts. I spoke with Orams, they said they are only taking bookings for November onwards. Half Moon Bay have their fancy sheds but that has actually reduced the number of boats they can handle. Gulf Harbour have been expanding their dry stack storage to the detriment of hard stand. Akarana and Council are doing their worst to shut down the Landing at Okahu Bay. Northcote Point club yard is under attack by council and NIMBY's Fewer and fewer yards for more and more boats.... Did some digging into the mob that has bought Pier 21 (Winton) the CEO’s wife who is a director was a 3 time Olympic sailor for Denmark so odds on they are yachties or at the least Rivitomo owners …rumour has it they are refurbing the handstand and marina . |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 28, 2022 8:49:35 GMT 12
Did some digging into the mob that has bought Pier 21 (Winton) the CEO’s wife who is a director was a 3 time Olympic sailor for Denmark so odds on they are yachties or at the least Rivitomo owners …rumour has it they are refurbing the handstand and marina . Unfortunately when you look at the property valuation www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuations/Pages/rates-details-results.aspx?an=12342989991I doubt if a hardstand would show much of a ROI as part of this space. The drystack is probably quite profitable but I would not be surprised if the hardstand was turned into apartments with the marina berths possibly being part of the deal for those. Watch this space |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 14:58:24 GMT 12
I see opportunity here...
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Post by em on Aug 8, 2022 18:32:41 GMT 12
I see opportunity here... Yeah mate ….move to Beaumont street |
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Post by em on Aug 8, 2022 18:34:46 GMT 12
Did some digging into the mob that has bought Pier 21 (Winton) the CEO’s wife who is a director was a 3 time Olympic sailor for Denmark so odds on they are yachties or at the least Rivitomo owners …rumour has it they are refurbing the handstand and marina . Unfortunately when you look at the property valuation www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuations/Pages/rates-details-results.aspx?an=12342989991I doubt if a hardstand would show much of a ROI as part of this space. The drystack is probably quite profitable but I would not be surprised if the hardstand was turned into apartments with the marina berths possibly being part of the deal for those. Watch this space They are both yachties of quite some skill and have a pseudo superyacht so maybe , just maybe they will feel a sense of duty to keep the hardstand operating |
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Post by ComfortZone on Aug 8, 2022 20:00:24 GMT 12
They are both yachties of quite some skill and have a pseudo superyacht so maybe , just maybe they will feel a sense of duty to keep the hardstand operating Property developers - sense of duty, that's like expecting pollies to have a conscience  . I was talking to someone in the boat painting business today, he says it's closed for good. |
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Post by fish on Aug 8, 2022 20:49:52 GMT 12
They are both yachties of quite some skill and have a pseudo superyacht so maybe , just maybe they will feel a sense of duty to keep the hardstand operating Property developers - sense of duty, that's like expecting pollies to have a conscience . I don't think that is fair. I've worked with some very good and diligent developers. Sure there are some just out for a quick buck. They don't tend to last long in the industry. And there are some cowboys, same as with lawyers, realtors, engineers etc. It is funny how almost everyone lives in a house on a section and has things like roads and power supply etc, that was all put there by a developer, but everyone still loves to bag them. Especially new developments. Everyone living in the houses on the sections put there by developers 30 odd years ago don't want any new sections. Hypocrites. The issue with the downtown / Westhaven area is the value of alternative use for that land. Hardstands are messy and noisy industrial activities. The downtown / Westhaven area is a stupid place for that type of activity. The opportunity cost for that land is moonbeams. Retail, hospo, commercial space, apartments, or a combination in a highrise. If the land is worth $10k / m2, you will all be bitching about the costs of getting work done there. Far better to putter the boat to somewhere a bit cheaper to haul out. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Aug 8, 2022 22:30:28 GMT 12
Property developers - sense of duty, that's like expecting pollies to have a conscience . I don't think that is fair. I've worked with some very good and diligent developers. Sure there are some just out for a quick buck. They don't tend to last long in the industry. And there are some cowboys, same as with lawyers, realtors, engineers etc. The issue with the downtown / Westhaven area is the value of alternative use for that land. Hardstands are messy and noisy industrial activities. The downtown / Westhaven area is a stupid place for that type of activity. The opportunity cost for that land is moonbeams. Retail, hospo, commercial space, apartments, or a combination in a highrise. If the land is worth $10k / m2, you will all be bitching about the costs of getting work done there. Far better to putter the boat to somewhere a bit cheaper to haul out. when I think about some of the "deals" done in my immediate area by developers, I don't feel like changing my comment. Yes, there will be some good ones, but they are all in it for the money and the majority will do just about whatever it takes to make that money. Just last week I heard of someone trying to kick off earthworks for a development up here not even consented yet. As far as somewhere cheaper to haulout, what chance do you think there is of developing a new facility somewhere in the greater Auckland region where you can haulout a yacht with the mast still standing - just about zero, zilch, nada. Most of the existing yards are being compressed and with the increase in average boat size the capacity of the existing yards is hence reducing. Mick Cookson is trying to develop a small yard at his farm on the Mahurangi, just downstream from the cement works, where there is no impact on just about anyone yet the council is still blocking him. AC has passed some bylaw that effectively prevents any development on the edge of a river and has thrown the Mahurangi into this pot so that kills a couple of good potential marina sites. I reckon the Waiheke marina and the Westhaven expansion will be the last marina's you see built in the Auckland region for a very long time. Good for me as a berth owner but not good for boating. |
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Post by fish on Aug 9, 2022 10:11:40 GMT 12
I don't think that is fair. I've worked with some very good and diligent developers. Sure there are some just out for a quick buck. They don't tend to last long in the industry. And there are some cowboys, same as with lawyers, realtors, engineers etc. The issue with the downtown / Westhaven area is the value of alternative use for that land. Hardstands are messy and noisy industrial activities. The downtown / Westhaven area is a stupid place for that type of activity. The opportunity cost for that land is moonbeams. Retail, hospo, commercial space, apartments, or a combination in a highrise. If the land is worth $10k / m2, you will all be bitching about the costs of getting work done there. Far better to putter the boat to somewhere a bit cheaper to haul out. when I think about some of the "deals" done in my immediate area by developers, I don't feel like changing my comment. Yes, there will be some good ones, but they are all in it for the money and the majority will do just about whatever it takes to make that money. Just last week I heard of someone trying to kick off earthworks for a development up here not even consented yet. As far as somewhere cheaper to haulout, what chance do you think there is of developing a new facility somewhere in the greater Auckland region where you can haulout a yacht with the mast still standing - just about zero, zilch, nada. Most of the existing yards are being compressed and with the increase in average boat size the capacity of the existing yards is hence reducing. Mick Cookson is trying to develop a small yard at his farm on the Mahurangi, just downstream from the cement works, where there is no impact on just about anyone yet the council is still blocking him. AC has passed some bylaw that effectively prevents any development on the edge of a river and has thrown the Mahurangi into this pot so that kills a couple of good potential marina sites. I reckon the Waiheke marina and the Westhaven expansion will be the last marina's you see built in the Auckland region for a very long time. Good for me as a berth owner but not good for boating. There is certainly a paradox in your arguement. You complain how hard it is to develop something, then complain that developers take short-cuts... It is a regular theme on here to complain about Council and govt over-reach, the increasing bureaucracy. A Developers whole world is all that BS. The good developers know what they can and can't do, and they know how to get things done. The greatest risk of a development falling over is the bureaucracy. For 'Rural Production' land - what used to be known as farms - there are a number of permitted activities that attract a fair high bureaucracy if done as part of a development. For example, You can clear trees on farmland as a permitted activity. If the trees are there when you apply for a Development RC, you have to do an ecological study and it is common that Council require you to keep those trees untouched and unharmed throughout the development. I'm sure you can understand the complexities of trying to earthwork around random tress. Noting that earthworks are required to stablise the land (slips etc) and provide the required grades for roads and stormwater systems. So leaving trees in-situ can kill a development. Hence, trees are always cleared whilst the land is designated 'rural production'. You know what the Council call a boggy patch in the back paddock of a farm? an Ephemeral Wetland. And once you have a 'wetland' add another million to your bill... A swale on a farm that is dry for 11 months of the year can also be classified as an ephemeral stream. And every 'tributary' into the swale... Likewise, it is standard practice to start earthworks before a Consent is issued for the development. In Auckland, the earthworks season is limited, primarily round Council rules to limit silt run-off in the winter. It is fairly straight forward to get an earthworks consent, esp for rural production land. This allows the work to be carried out at appropriate times / seasons and can avoid delays of 1 or 2 years. If you waited for RC for the whole development, you would miss at least 1 earthworks seasons. RC's are often held up on very trivial matters like the colour of park benches. Now, bear in mind the holding cost for a development can be $10's of thousands a day, delays cost money. More so with the cost of everything going up at the moment. As for getting a new marina or hardstand consented. Well. The guys that are doing Kennedy Point must have balls the size of coconuts. They have had everything thrown at them, legally and illegally. They even had the local MP making blatant untrue statements about them. Occupations, their gear vandalised, their staff assulted. Dodgy legal challenge after dodgy legal challenge. Consequently I don't think they will be letting those berths out at Weiti Boating Club rates... Consequently I have a lot of sympathy for the good developers. I've also seen bad developers. I leave them alone, and they normally run out of finance in about 3 months... |
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Post by GO30 on Aug 18, 2022 18:33:46 GMT 12
Did some digging into the mob that has bought Pier 21 (Winton) the CEO’s wife who is a director was a 3 time Olympic sailor for Denmark so odds on they are yachties or at the least Rivitomo owners …rumour has it they are refurbing the handstand and marina . A 30m yacht. One of Alloy Yachts first bigger beasts, launched in 95 I think she was. Just had an paint job and a tickle so is looking very good. She has loverly lines.
Currently in Fiji but will be back to her new Viaduct berth soon.
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