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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 20:55:34 GMT 12
Ha ha, just been playing.... my caravan has this bad boy ..
MaXpeedingrod 5KW 12V Air Diesel Heater
All the rage here... And they sell thousands of them in the caravan market
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Post by fish on Aug 24, 2022 21:17:02 GMT 12
Marine muffler $80 ex NZ at Heatport (Heatspace is HeaterX, don't get confused...) heatport.co.nz/collections/exhs-silencers-mufflers316 Through hulls for $23 nz delivered (not considering tax) www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003951526418.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.393d38daBJCEgO&mp=1Heatport through hulls from $170 upwards heatport.co.nz/collections/exhs-through-hull-skin-fittingsThat FDIK heater we orders is $317 incl freight. The vents and ducting is loads cheaper off Aliexpress also. Comment: There is a fair bit more cost and faff doing a permanent install of one of these heaters, what with the through hull and ensuring the exhaust is robustly lagged, not to mention the hot air duct out, which can get hot, especially if the air through the unit is restricted at inlet or outlet. In my view, there is not an insignificant fire risk putting one of these in an older wooden boat. This is further complicated if you are tight for space to locate the unit and run the ducts and exhaust with adequate clearance as I suspect you will be on a 26 fter. This has led us to decide to install it in a portable unit and operate it located at the back of the cockpit. Exhaust sticking overboard. No risk of obstructions for the heating inlet air. Note that the installation instructions require that the combustion air in not be taken from the 'passenger compartment'. This is in the context of parking heaters (cars and trucks). We think it is due to creating negative air pressure and adversely affecting the performance of the unit, esp with respect to safety and clean burning of the diesel. It is not clear to us what the 'passenger compartment' constitutes on a boat, but we couldn't be bothered with all of the questions, issues and risk. Hence the portable install option. Duct will run across the cockpit and down the hatch. I'll make up a new washboard with a hole cut in it, and a suitable bulkhead fitting to take it. My logic is that we wont need the heater in the summer cruising season, so I can take it off and use the storage space for other stuff. I can't do that if I have a permanent install, and regardless of where we put it, it will take up space. If we find we are using the heater all of the time and stowing it is a pain, then there is nothing stopping me doing a permanent install later. Randomly, one of the big drivers for us is my daughters need for a hair dryer... I want to adapt this heater for that. Probably with a 2nd outlet to control the heat and airflow. I think that will influence how we use it and how we install it. And yes GO30, I can hear you laughing already. I want me daughter to come snorkelling with me, but it takes ages to dry her hair. Happy daughter = happy mummy. Happy Mummy = happy fishy. Happy family = lots more boating time :-)
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Post by fish on Aug 24, 2022 21:24:31 GMT 12
Ha ha, just been playing.... my caravan has this bad boy .. MaXpeedingrod 5KW 12V Air Diesel Heater All the rage here... And they sell thousands of them in the caravan market A 5kW will cook the poor Sabre. He will be roasted like a Sunday leg of lamb. And WTF do you need a heater for in Queensland? It was really really hard to find a suitable 2kW model. Everything is either 5kW or 8 kW. There is no difference in those ones, the control system just pumps more fuel through. The 2kW models are overall smaller. Interestingly, both the 5kW and 2kW's have a minimum setting of about 1kW, but at the lowest heat settings the amount of CO produced increases markedly. Hence I was keen to get a purpose designed 2kW, instead of getting a 5kW and fiddling with the fuel pump max rate to restrict its maximum heat output. If you fuel doesn't burn cleanly, bad things happen, either CO or soot and carbinisation, i.e. poor or unreliable running.
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Post by fish on Aug 24, 2022 21:28:43 GMT 12
Kyocera glow plug, if you ever need one, $70 NZ All the other possible parts you could need by heatport also. My understanding is all the Chinese models are knock offs, so I am hoping a lot of the legit parts are interchangeable, with thread sizes and plugs etc. heatport.co.nz/collections/intr-glow-plugs
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Post by sabre on Aug 24, 2022 21:35:40 GMT 12
Marine muffler $80 ex NZ at Heatport (Heatspace is HeaterX, don't get confused...) heatport.co.nz/collections/exhs-silencers-mufflers316 Through hulls for $23 nz delivered (not considering tax) www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003951526418.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.393d38daBJCEgO&mp=1Heatport through hulls from $170 upwards heatport.co.nz/collections/exhs-through-hull-skin-fittingsThat FDIK heater we orders is $317 incl freight. The vents and ducting is loads cheaper off Aliexpress also. Comment: There is a fair bit more cost and faff doing a permanent install of one of these heaters, what with the through hull and ensuring the exhaust is robustly lagged, not to mention the hot air duct out, which can get hot, especially if the air through the unit is restricted at inlet or outlet. In my view, there is not an insignificant fire risk putting one of these in an older wooden boat. This is further complicated if you are tight for space to locate the unit and run the ducts and exhaust with adequate clearance as I suspect you will be on a 26 fter. This has led us to decide to install it in a portable unit and operate it located at the back of the cockpit. Exhaust sticking overboard. No risk of obstructions for the heating inlet air. Note that the installation instructions require that the combustion air in not be taken from the 'passenger compartment'. This is in the context of parking heaters (cars and trucks). We think it is due to creating negative air pressure and adversely affecting the performance of the unit, esp with respect to safety and clean burning of the diesel. It is not clear to us what the 'passenger compartment' constitutes on a boat, but we couldn't be bothered with all of the questions, issues and risk. Hence the portable install option. Duct will run across the cockpit and down the hatch. I'll make up a new washboard with a hole cut in it, and a suitable bulkhead fitting to take it. My logic is that we wont need the heater in the summer cruising season, so I can take it off and use the storage space for other stuff. I can't do that if I have a permanent install, and regardless of where we put it, it will take up space. If we find we are using the heater all of the time and stowing it is a pain, then there is nothing stopping me doing a permanent install later. Randomly, one of the big drivers for us is my daughters need for a hair dryer... I want to adapt this heater for that. Probably with a 2nd outlet to control the heat and airflow. I think that will influence how we use it and how we install it. And yes GO30, I can hear you laughing already. I want me daughter to come snorkelling with me, but it takes ages to dry her hair. Happy daughter = happy mummy. Happy Mummy = happy fishy. Happy family = lots more boating time :-) Awesome info there Fish, you saved me alot of time sussing. I'm fairly determined to do a permanent install. While there is not a lot of livable space on a 26ftr, there is plenty of space that is difficult to utilise like down the end of the 1/4 berths. Also only about half my underseat lockers are currently used so should be able to find space.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 1:31:33 GMT 12
Ha ha, just been playing.... my caravan has this bad boy .. MaXpeedingrod 5KW 12V Air Diesel Heater All the rage here... And they sell thousands of them in the caravan market A 5kW will cook the poor Sabre. He will be roasted like a Sunday leg of lamb. And WTF do you need a heater for in Queensland? It was really really hard to find a suitable 2kW model. Everything is either 5kW or 8 kW. There is no difference in those ones, the control system just pumps more fuel through. The 2kW models are overall smaller. Interestingly, both the 5kW and 2kW's have a minimum setting of about 1kW, but at the lowest heat settings the amount of CO produced increases markedly. Hence I was keen to get a purpose designed 2kW, instead of getting a 5kW and fiddling with the fuel pump max rate to restrict its maximum heat output. If you fuel doesn't burn cleanly, bad things happen, either CO or soot and carbinisation, i.e. poor or unreliable running. it's a caravan.... It moves 😄🤣👍... Been snowing in Sydney's blue mountains, 0 in the south... 3 degrees west of Cairns! Don't tell The greens but we are going thru a global cooling phase...
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Post by Fogg on Aug 25, 2022 8:23:07 GMT 12
If you’re going for a permanent install consider a few points (lessons from my experience)…
The burner unit gets v hot. Sounds obviously but it is a big consideration even in a bigger boat with a big compartment for it. Obviously the exhaust needs to be run correctly to avoid potential heat issues.
But same with the hot air outlet side. Because of the length of run on my install (42ft boat) I wanted to avoid the first outlet nearest the burner (aft cabin and saloon) being red hot but the last outlet (in the forecabin) being cold. I was therefore advised to use lagging.
The consequences of using lagging are 3-fold:
1. The holes you need to cut throughout the boat will be roughly twice the diameter 2. You will retain more heat at the end outlets but losses will still be noticeable - maybe less so on a 26 ft 3 Do not start the lagging at the unit itself but leave a good 100cm of ‘naked’ ducting to allow some heat loss where it first comes out of the unit itself - or it will overheat.
You also need to run it at full heat every few hours to avoid coking - again if it’s a 5KW unit on a 26ft boat you will fry yourself and possibly cause some of your wood to dry out more than it ever has before - with possible cracking.
Finally, people thought I was nuts putting outlets in the 2 heads -this was a great decision because in the winter the heads can be a miserably damp and uninviting place - especially for family who appreciate their comforts. By having hot air ducts in the heads it enabled us to use it as a wet locker and hang up wet winter clothes and towels etc - and with the hatch open and the heating on it all dried out amazingly. No more mid-winter damp toilet paper either 😊
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Post by sabre on Aug 25, 2022 10:21:56 GMT 12
Thanks Fogg. Nothings ever simple is it.
I haven't fully got my head into it yet (busy glassing new watertank in) but I was thinking of mounting the unit in the stern. Lots of room there thats not being used. I was thinking one outlet would be enough so it would likely only be one run of ducting about 2-2.5m long.
Might have to set it up on a board initially to have a play and get my head around how hot the unit/exhaust/ducting gets.
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Post by fish on Aug 25, 2022 11:11:00 GMT 12
If you’re going for a permanent install consider a few points (lessons from my experience)… The burner unit gets v hot. Sounds obviously but it is a big consideration even in a bigger boat with a big compartment for it. Obviously the exhaust needs to be run correctly to avoid potential heat issues. But same with the hot air outlet side. Because of the length of run on my install (42ft boat) I wanted to avoid the first outlet nearest the burner (aft cabin and saloon) being red hot but the last outlet (in the forecabin) being cold. I was therefore advised to use lagging. The consequences of using lagging are 3-fold: 1. The holes you need to cut throughout the boat will be roughly twice the diameter 2. You will retain more heat at the end outlets but losses will still be noticeable - maybe less so on a 26 ft 3 Do not start the lagging at the unit itself but leave a good 100cm of ‘naked’ ducting to allow some heat loss where it first comes out of the unit itself - or it will overheat. You also need to run it at full heat every few hours to avoid coking - again if it’s a 5KW unit on a 26ft boat you will fry yourself and possibly cause some of your wood to dry out more than it ever has before - with possible cracking. Finally, people thought I was nuts putting outlets in the 2 heads -this was a great decision because in the winter the heads can be a miserably damp and uninviting place - especially for family who appreciate their comforts. By having hot air ducts in the heads it enabled us to use it as a wet locker and hang up wet winter clothes and towels etc - and with the hatch open and the heating on it all dried out amazingly. No more mid-winter damp toilet paper either 😊 Boy oh boy I'd love to have a heated wet locker. I'd love to have a wet locker full stop. We've only got one head, and its not big enough for hanging stuff in. When we've all been snorkelling there are wet towels and wet wetsuits strewn all over the place. Boat looks more like a cyclone has been through... My father in his trailer home has a ducted towel rail. Has three bars for hanging towels on, with air slots out of the bottom of each slot. Very good for drying towels, but is super flimesy and would last 5 min on our boat.
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Post by fish on Aug 25, 2022 11:31:53 GMT 12
Thanks Fogg. Nothings ever simple is it. I haven't fully got my head into it yet (busy glassing new watertank in) but I was thinking of mounting the unit in the stern. Lots of room there thats not being used. I was thinking one outlet would be enough so it would likely only be one run of ducting about 2-2.5m long. Might have to set it up on a board initially to have a play and get my head around how hot the unit/exhaust/ducting gets. I would think setting it up and running it out of the boat a very good idea, to assess the heat of various parts. That is effectively what we are doing with our portable unit. Wont drill holes in the boat until we know we've got everything sorted, and its not going to start a fire. Noting we have a 40 yr old wooden boat, so I am risk averse around the fire aspect. You are actually fairly limited in how long you can have the exhaust pipe. This tends to dictate where you can install it. The best (and only) source of detailed installation information is the Webesto or Eberspacher manuals. All the others are knock offs of these, so these manuals are still applicable for Chinese units. The physics of heat and air flow doesn't change. There are details such as what size and how many bends you can have on the hot air out ducts, and very important things like where to take the hot air in from, the combustion air in, and obviously maximum pipe run for the exhaust. Fogg what did you use for hot air duct lagging? I was investigating the various exhaust pipe laggings. You can get a basalt fibre one, but its main benefit is tolerating very high temp, much higher than what a diesel heater can produce. I was contemplating lagging my exhaust pipe in the asbestos fibre wrap (I know it is not asbestos anymore, but you know the stuff I mean), the sleeving the whole thing with the rubber engine exhaust pipe. Only issue is that stuff is designed for wet exhausts and doesn't actually have a very high temp rating, oh, and it is moonbeams expensive. I did find this trident polyduct 481 which can handle up to 107degC. I thought I found one that could handle up to 150deg, but maybe I was dreaming (I didn't save the link at the time). I am interested in using this as a sleeve over my hot air ducting to give it some physical strength and weather proofing. It could be an option to go over the lagging at points where you are worried about chafe and wear. www.absolutemarine.co.nz/plumbing-pumps-heaters-boats/hoses/ducting-hose-for-bilge-blower-100mm-or-75mm
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Post by fish on Aug 25, 2022 11:37:04 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Oct 3, 2022 18:47:41 GMT 12
We commissioned our diesel heater today. The whoflundung from aliexpress. FDIK brand (link further back in the thread). It went faultlessly. We managed to prime the fuel line easy enough, two goes and we got it running. Ran it on max power for 75 min, monitoring temperatures and what not. No issues. Ran it on minimum power, then on temp control setting. Goes fine. Control system is very simple. Flashes an error number (1, 2 or 3). We got it to flash 1 a couple of times, as that was "failure to burn" or something, meaning we didn't get the fuel through. The remote paired itself. Perfectly functional, but doesn't have a display, so you have to look at the base control unit to know that you've got it on the setting you want. I think remotes are primarily used for vehicle parking heaters, where you want it to warm up before you step outside your house, so not really applicable to using on the boat. All other aspects are as you would expect for a diesel heater. Runs the glow plug for a minute on start up before pumping diesel in. Starts up and then settles into steady running. Bit of smoke on start up (like the same amount you get from blowing out a candle), then there was no sign of smoke, soot or fumes once running. Shutdown, obviously the fan runs on for ages after the pump has shut off, so it cools the heat exchanger and takes all of the residual heat out of everything. Diesel pump makes a ticking noise, but they all do that. I'm going to wrap mine in some offcut engine sound proofing. Overall very happy. Haven't got it on the boat yet, only a trial run in the shed to confirm operation and check heat on the hot parts. Edit, here is the link to the unit we got, FDIK brand. $317nz landed, including freight etc. There are cheaper ones on AliExpress, but this one had the best service (responded to email questions same day, provided a operating instructions, state they know how to copy Kyocera glow plugs (so acknowledge Kyocera are the best, but have the intellectual property to get the same benefit)). www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002958614280.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21NZD%21NZ%24%20361.72%21NZ%24%20198.94%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9d516597825283905996e9301%2112000023624052855%21sh&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2003083670682.subject_2
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Post by sabre on Oct 5, 2022 10:22:53 GMT 12
We commissioned our diesel heater today. The whoflundung from aliexpress. FDIK brand (link further back in the thread). It went faultlessly. We managed to prime the fuel line easy enough, two goes and we got it running. Ran it on max power for 75 min, monitoring temperatures and what not. No issues. Ran it on minimum power, then on temp control setting. Goes fine. Control system is very simple. Flashes an error number (1, 2 or 3). We got it to flash 1 a couple of times, as that was "failure to burn" or something, meaning we didn't get the fuel through. The remote paired itself. Perfectly functional, but doesn't have a display, so you have to look at the base control unit to know that you've got it on the setting you want. I think remotes are primarily used for vehicle parking heaters, where you want it to warm up before you step outside your house, so not really applicable to using on the boat. All other aspects are as you would expect for a diesel heater. Runs the glow plug for a minute on start up before pumping diesel in. Starts up and then settles into steady running. Bit of smoke on start up (like the same amount you get from blowing out a candle), then there was no sign of smoke, soot or fumes once running. Shutdown, obviously the fan runs on for ages after the pump has shut off, so it cools the heat exchanger and takes all of the residual heat out of everything. Diesel pump makes a ticking noise, but they all do that. I'm going to wrap mine in some offcut engine sound proofing. Overall very happy. Haven't got it on the boat yet, only a trial run in the shed to confirm operation and check heat on the hot parts. Edit, here is the link to the unit we got, FDIK brand. $317nz landed, including freight etc. There are cheaper ones on AliExpress, but this one had the best service (responded to email questions same day, provided a operating instructions, state they know how to copy Kyocera glow plugs (so acknowledge Kyocera are the best, but have the intellectual property to get the same benefit)). www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002958614280.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21NZD%21NZ%24%20361.72%21NZ%24%20198.94%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9d516597825283905996e9301%2112000023624052855%21sh&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2003083670682.subject_2Good stuff Fish! Thanks for the update. That is an absolute bargain. Roll on next winter..
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Post by Fogg on Oct 5, 2022 12:08:04 GMT 12
Yes well done guys.
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