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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2022 11:23:29 GMT 12
And by extension that would mean that the conspiracy theory mis-information websites had nothing to do with the decision of the parents in the OP to oppose vaccinated blood? If you can't see that the mis-information and conspiracy sites contribute substantially to these people becoming brainwashed into taking the actions they do then you are blind. Crikey Duckplucker sounds like you have gone deep, deep, deep down the propoganda rabbit hole. I seriously think you need to take a breath and maybe a wee break from the interweb. Obviously this couple, while nursing their child in hospital, came up with all the science themselves to determine that vaccinated blood was bad. They didn't read a single piece of mis-information anywhere on the Internet and they didn't get any information from other misinformation peddlers. How can anyone be so stupid to believe that these 1000's of nutters reached the conclusions on there own? You probably also think that the pfizer CEO resigned quoting that mRNA wasn't ready... |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2022 11:25:33 GMT 12
PS, Loving my new nickname. Using cunty insults does detract from the persuasiveness of your argument though. You started the nickname theme - I figured I would continue it. |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2022 11:28:06 GMT 12
Crikey Duckplucker sounds like you have gone deep, deep, deep down the propoganda rabbit hole. I seriously think you need to take a breath and maybe a wee break from the interweb. Obviously this couple, while nursing their child in hospital, came up with all the science themselves to determine that vaccinated blood was bad. They didn't read a single piece of mis-information anywhere on the Internet and they didn't get any information from other misinformation peddlers. How can anyone be so stupid to believe that these 1000's of nutters reached the conclusions on there own? You probably also think that the pfizer CEO resigned quoting that mRNA wasn't ready... Maybe they read this mis-informaiton from this dodgy conspiracy site? 9.7% increase in all cause mortality. What could have caused that? The increase in deaths in the June 2022 year (9.7 percent) was higher than the average annual increase over the previous decade (1.4 percent). The latest increase partly reflects an ageing population – there are increasing numbers and proportions of the population in older ages, where most deaths occur. However, there were also higher death rates at older ages in March to June 2022 (see weekly updates in COVID-19 data portal). www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/births-and-deaths-year-ended-june-2022/ |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2022 11:31:04 GMT 12
PS, Loving my new nickname. Using cunty insults does detract from the persuasiveness of your argument though. You started the nickname theme - I figured I would continue it. I've no problems with nicknames, they are kind of fun. Pleased you agree. I was just saying the insult part detracts from the strength of your arguement. You do put some logical and well communicated positions together, but I think you are wrong on this topic, and you don't appear to be reacting well about it. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2022 11:34:22 GMT 12
fishdo you think that people are making money out of peddling mis-information? do you think that people who read that mis-information become brainwashed causing them to make bad decisions that stem from there belief in the mis-information?
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2022 11:36:41 GMT 12
I'd also like to highlight another flaw in your argument Paddleduck.
All the 'conspiracy' sites were blocked during the height of the pandemic.
I was advised of the NZDSOS site by a trusted medical professional, and when I went to look for it, I got caught in a decoy site. Google wouldn't link any conspiracy sites, and regardless of what search terms you used ended up on the CDC or FDA sites, or the NZ govt sites.
Facebook blocked and banned every conspiracy group. While they were at it they took out several legit sites that had independent views on them.
All the 'nutters' had to pile over to telegram and halo and all sorts of random platforms. There were substantial barriers to even finding the conspiracy sites.
So if the information was hidden, how could these people be influenced by it? To say they were is just a nonsense.
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Post by sabre on Dec 15, 2022 11:37:26 GMT 12
Crikey Duckplucker sounds like you have gone deep, deep, deep down the propoganda rabbit hole. I seriously think you need to take a breath and maybe a wee break from the interweb. Obviously this couple, while nursing their child in hospital, came up with all the science themselves to determine that vaccinated blood was bad. They didn't read a single piece of mis-information anywhere on the Internet and they didn't get any information from other misinformation peddlers. How can anyone be so stupid to believe that these 1000's of nutters reached the conclusions on there own? You probably also think that the pfizer CEO resigned quoting that mRNA wasn't ready... For goodness sake Duckphucker, this is just another post full of deranged assumptions based on your biased and warped reality. |
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Post by em on Dec 15, 2022 11:48:58 GMT 12
Once again fishycunt fails to read or reply in context. Puddleduck never claimed that this incident had anything to do with freedom of medical choice. But continue your mis-information campaign. These people, w ho perpetrated this heinous crime, were brainwashed by conspiracy sites and mis-information. The believed unequivocally that the Port Arthur Massacre never happened and that it was an attempt by Government to take away there firearms. They also believed that the purpose of all vaccines was to reduce the population. If you can't see that the anti-vax, science denying, conspiracy theory sites and general misinformation they consumed over the years contributed to this outcome then you are blind. Erm, OK, So first you deny you said it, then double down on it, in the same post? I mean I may have read your post wrong, and if so I'll apologise, I am an engineer and not an english teacher after all. You say antivaxers are mis-informed cause they read conspiracy theories. And that these guys committed this massacre because they read conspiracy theories. You are linking conspiracy theories to all issues. Anyway, lets park that bit. The fundamental issue I have with your position is linking people's honestly held and logically developed anti-vax position with both conspiracy sites and this massacre. That is just wrong. Now, why do you think they were brainwashed by conspiracy sites and mis-information? Their own father says the Gareth son was a gun nutter control freak from a young age. At a rough guess of their ages, he was already a gun nutter before the internet, so how could he have read conspiracy sites before they even existed? Related to this debate and the hate speach laws, what comes first, the nutter or the conspiracy site? In my view the nutters already exist. We have always had nutters in our communities. Aramoana, Tauramanui, NZ has had its fair share of mass murders prior to Chch, all pre-dating the internet. Now, with social media, people of the same persuasion can congagrate easily, for example on conspiracy sites. Despite jacinda saying so (or because of), I've not actually seen any evidence that conspiracy sites radicalize people. In the context of mandates and lockdowns, I see the govt's actions are going to radicalize people. I don't think Graham Philips got his ideas from the internet. I think he thought them up all by himself. Given his brother is a murderer and canabal, it is highly likely he was already a nutter. Now, I will admit that the anti-vax / freedom movement does also attract its fair share of nutters. The MSM has gone out of its way to portray all those opposed to vaccines as fringe nutters. In my view you have just been brainwashed by the MSM, that is understandable though. I have also seen some rather extreme behaviour from the super pro-vax camp as well. They just don't end up in the media because of the $55m media bias over that period. It is just a normal part of society to have a few nutters about. Nothing to do with social media and the internet, they were there all along. Its just that you can now see them via social media. PS, Loving my new nickname. Using cunty insults does detract from the persuasiveness of your argument though. Good points about nutters congregating on the internet . The parliament grounds occupation brought them all out of the woodwork and they garnered a hell of a lot of followers from it . Many of the groups there seemed to be there for anti establishment reasons and got good exposure for their causes . Anyway since then Ive noticed a lot more crazy theories bouncing around the net from seemingly normal people ….hell most of the regulars on here supported Graham Phillips . Why did he attract so much support ? I think the biggest reason was the conspiracies flying around and the deep distrust of Govt , which is fair enough . The inept Govt and the lack of viable alternatives to vote for next year might be enticing people down rabbit holes they normally wouldn’t take notice of . I keep bringing up the Graham Phillips case because that’s the most noticeable event on this forum where folks were going off the deep end with crazy theories . To be fair his wife was a great accomplice pleading innocence etc and it was quite believable . Like I said , Dave or Chris would’ve treated him exactly the same way if they were PM , Kelvyn Alp as PM probably would’ve behaved quite differently 😂 . Anyway it’s happening all around the world it seems . Deep distrust of Govt is sending people down rabbit holes more than ever , whether it be vaccine policy , supporting the war in UKR , Fuel price increases , and everything else . |
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Post by em on Dec 15, 2022 11:56:40 GMT 12
I'd also like to highlight another flaw in your argument Paddleduck. All the 'conspiracy' sites were blocked during the height of the pandemic. I was advised of the NZDSOS site by a trusted medical professional, and when I went to look for it, I got caught in a decoy site. Google wouldn't link any conspiracy sites, and regardless of what search terms you used ended up on the CDC or FDA sites, or the NZ govt sites. Facebook blocked and banned every conspiracy group. While they were at it they took out several legit sites that had independent views on them. All the 'nutters' had to pile over to telegram and halo and all sorts of random platforms. There were substantial barriers to even finding the conspiracy sites. So if the information was hidden, how could these people be influenced by it? To say they were is just a nonsense. And rightly so . A large portion of the police force was concentrated in one area leaving many areas understaffed . The stability of the country was on a knife-edge and all the big boys were talking the big talk and ready to kick off . It was a great opportunity for the nut jobs with guns and gangs to run amok in the regions and under policed cities , thank god they didn’t . Be fuckin careful what you wish for |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2022 12:02:43 GMT 12
fish do you think that people are making money out of peddling mis-information? do you think that people who read that mis-information become brainwashed causing them to make bad decisions that stem from there belief in the mis-information? Yes to both. Absolutely. But I include in that the MSM and the government. At a specific level, the govt paid the MSM $55m to push their narrative. The crux of the issue is "what is mis-information"? It is very similar to the definition of a terrorist. In many countries around the world a terrorist is simply someone that opposes their government. There is a robust argument that the vaccine wasn't either safe or effective. It wasn't safe because we have a 9.7% increase in all cause mortality, up from a 10 year average of 1.4%. It wasn't effective because we are suffering a third wave AND how hospitals are completely imploding. So, is it fair to say the govt was spreading mis-information? or is that what we call dis-information? (I've never figured out the difference between the two). |
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Post by sabre on Dec 15, 2022 12:08:30 GMT 12
Erm, OK, So first you deny you said it, then double down on it, in the same post? I mean I may have read your post wrong, and if so I'll apologise, I am an engineer and not an english teacher after all. You say antivaxers are mis-informed cause they read conspiracy theories. And that these guys committed this massacre because they read conspiracy theories. You are linking conspiracy theories to all issues. Anyway, lets park that bit. The fundamental issue I have with your position is linking people's honestly held and logically developed anti-vax position with both conspiracy sites and this massacre. That is just wrong. Now, why do you think they were brainwashed by conspiracy sites and mis-information? Their own father says the Gareth son was a gun nutter control freak from a young age. At a rough guess of their ages, he was already a gun nutter before the internet, so how could he have read conspiracy sites before they even existed? Related to this debate and the hate speach laws, what comes first, the nutter or the conspiracy site? In my view the nutters already exist. We have always had nutters in our communities. Aramoana, Tauramanui, NZ has had its fair share of mass murders prior to Chch, all pre-dating the internet. Now, with social media, people of the same persuasion can congagrate easily, for example on conspiracy sites. Despite jacinda saying so (or because of), I've not actually seen any evidence that conspiracy sites radicalize people. In the context of mandates and lockdowns, I see the govt's actions are going to radicalize people. I don't think Graham Philips got his ideas from the internet. I think he thought them up all by himself. Given his brother is a murderer and canabal, it is highly likely he was already a nutter. Now, I will admit that the anti-vax / freedom movement does also attract its fair share of nutters. The MSM has gone out of its way to portray all those opposed to vaccines as fringe nutters. In my view you have just been brainwashed by the MSM, that is understandable though. I have also seen some rather extreme behaviour from the super pro-vax camp as well. They just don't end up in the media because of the $55m media bias over that period. It is just a normal part of society to have a few nutters about. Nothing to do with social media and the internet, they were there all along. Its just that you can now see them via social media. PS, Loving my new nickname. Using cunty insults does detract from the persuasiveness of your argument though. Good points about nutters congregating on the internet . The parliament grounds occupation brought them all out of the woodwork and they garnered a hell of a lot of followers from it . Many of the groups there seemed to be there for anti establishment reasons and got good exposure for their causes . Anyway since then Ive noticed a lot more crazy theories bouncing around the net from seemingly normal people ….hell most of the regulars on here supported Graham Phillips . Why did he attract so much support ? I think the biggest reason was the conspiracies flying around and the deep distrust of Govt , which is fair enough . The inept Govt and the lack of viable alternatives to vote for next year might be enticing people down rabbit holes they normally wouldn’t take notice of . I keep bringing up the Graham Phillips case because that’s the most noticeable event on this forum where folks were going off the deep end with crazy theories . To be fair his wife was a great accomplice pleading innocence etc and it was quite believable . Like I said , Dave or Chris would’ve treated him exactly the same way if they were PM , Kelvyn Alp as PM probably would’ve behaved quite differently 😂 . Anyway it’s happening all around the world it seems . Deep distrust of Govt is sending people down rabbit holes more than ever , whether it be vaccine policy , supporting the war in UKR , Fuel price increases , and everything else . What is your assessment of who was at the parliment occupation based on EM? |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2022 12:09:45 GMT 12
Erm, OK, So first you deny you said it, then double down on it, in the same post? I mean I may have read your post wrong, and if so I'll apologise, I am an engineer and not an english teacher after all. You say antivaxers are mis-informed cause they read conspiracy theories. And that these guys committed this massacre because they read conspiracy theories. You are linking conspiracy theories to all issues. Anyway, lets park that bit. The fundamental issue I have with your position is linking people's honestly held and logically developed anti-vax position with both conspiracy sites and this massacre. That is just wrong. Now, why do you think they were brainwashed by conspiracy sites and mis-information? Their own father says the Gareth son was a gun nutter control freak from a young age. At a rough guess of their ages, he was already a gun nutter before the internet, so how could he have read conspiracy sites before they even existed? Related to this debate and the hate speach laws, what comes first, the nutter or the conspiracy site? In my view the nutters already exist. We have always had nutters in our communities. Aramoana, Tauramanui, NZ has had its fair share of mass murders prior to Chch, all pre-dating the internet. Now, with social media, people of the same persuasion can congagrate easily, for example on conspiracy sites. Despite jacinda saying so (or because of), I've not actually seen any evidence that conspiracy sites radicalize people. In the context of mandates and lockdowns, I see the govt's actions are going to radicalize people. I don't think Graham Philips got his ideas from the internet. I think he thought them up all by himself. Given his brother is a murderer and canabal, it is highly likely he was already a nutter. Now, I will admit that the anti-vax / freedom movement does also attract its fair share of nutters. The MSM has gone out of its way to portray all those opposed to vaccines as fringe nutters. In my view you have just been brainwashed by the MSM, that is understandable though. I have also seen some rather extreme behaviour from the super pro-vax camp as well. They just don't end up in the media because of the $55m media bias over that period. It is just a normal part of society to have a few nutters about. Nothing to do with social media and the internet, they were there all along. Its just that you can now see them via social media. PS, Loving my new nickname. Using cunty insults does detract from the persuasiveness of your argument though. Good points about nutters congregating on the internet . The parliament grounds occupation brought them all out of the woodwork and they garnered a hell of a lot of followers from it . Many of the groups there seemed to be there for anti establishment reasons and got good exposure for their causes . Anyway since then Ive noticed a lot more crazy theories bouncing around the net from seemingly normal people ….hell most of the regulars on here supported Graham Phillips . Why did he attract so much support ? I think the biggest reason was the conspiracies flying around and the deep distrust of Govt , which is fair enough . The inept Govt and the lack of viable alternatives to vote for next year might be enticing people down rabbit holes they normally wouldn’t take notice of . I keep bringing up the Graham Phillips case because that’s the most noticeable event on this forum where folks were going off the deep end with crazy theories . To be fair his wife was a great accomplice pleading innocence etc and it was quite believable . Like I said , Dave or Chris would’ve treated him exactly the same way if they were PM , Kelvyn Alp as PM probably would’ve behaved quite differently 😂 . Anyway it’s happening all around the world it seems . Deep distrust of Govt is sending people down rabbit holes more than ever , whether it be vaccine policy , supporting the war in UKR , Fuel price increases , and everything else . Yes, agree. And that really annoyed the piss out of me about the Parliament protest. It's genesis was with ordinary people calmly wanting to be heard. Then all the fringes came out of the woodwork, the anarchists and anti-establishment crowd. The MSM pushed that narrative and public sentiment turned quickly. The ulterior factions completely stuffed the primary message. Your point on distrust of the govt is key though. In the US we had Trumps random ramblings and the January riot, in the UK we've got a PM that couldn't outlast a lettuce. We have numerous trust issues with this current govt and the erosion of democracy. So, is it conspiracy sites or the govt's that are causing the rise of extremism? |
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Post by em on Dec 15, 2022 12:27:41 GMT 12
Good points about nutters congregating on the internet . The parliament grounds occupation brought them all out of the woodwork and they garnered a hell of a lot of followers from it . Many of the groups there seemed to be there for anti establishment reasons and got good exposure for their causes . Anyway since then Ive noticed a lot more crazy theories bouncing around the net from seemingly normal people ….hell most of the regulars on here supported Graham Phillips . Why did he attract so much support ? I think the biggest reason was the conspiracies flying around and the deep distrust of Govt , which is fair enough . The inept Govt and the lack of viable alternatives to vote for next year might be enticing people down rabbit holes they normally wouldn’t take notice of . I keep bringing up the Graham Phillips case because that’s the most noticeable event on this forum where folks were going off the deep end with crazy theories . To be fair his wife was a great accomplice pleading innocence etc and it was quite believable . Like I said , Dave or Chris would’ve treated him exactly the same way if they were PM , Kelvyn Alp as PM probably would’ve behaved quite differently 😂 . Anyway it’s happening all around the world it seems . Deep distrust of Govt is sending people down rabbit holes more than ever , whether it be vaccine policy , supporting the war in UKR , Fuel price increases , and everything else . What is your assessment of who was at the parliment occupation based on EM? I watched hours of live footage including Chantelle’s ? Joined dots where I could with Info MSM that correlated with with what I’d seen . Slogans on Tshirts etc and flags were bit of a giveaway . I have nothing against the folk that were there protesting the mandates . Gang members and gun lobbyists trying to incite violence and far right fuckwits using it as a vehicle for promotion really screwed it up . |
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Post by sabre on Dec 15, 2022 12:43:20 GMT 12
Fair enough. I spent 3 or 4 days there. My partner, her parents and Aunty spent about a week there. My sister in law and brother in law was there for about 3 weeks. None of saw or met any far right gun lobbyists. I think I might have seen one gang member the whole time I was there.
Nothing that I saw or heard on MSM correlated with what any of us saw on the ground. The shit heads that were involved in the violence on the last day arrived about the same time as the police. Make what you will of that.
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Post by em on Dec 15, 2022 13:42:59 GMT 12
My powers of perception are fucked then !
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