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Post by fish on Mar 16, 2023 20:07:24 GMT 12
How do these Notice to Mariners work with AT? I actually went out sailing today, and 2 of the 3 channel markers getting into the Weiti are destroyed. So I had a look at NtM to see what the details were, and can't find a thing. I'm looking at "local" NtM on that google gave me, on the AT website. at.govt.nz/boating-marine/local-notices-to-mariners/But note that there is a list of what appears to be current NTM's (including don't relay on a chart plotter, take paper charts...). It has a warning of fallen trees up the Weiti, but no mention of the key channel markers crossing the bay. But there is also a link to a pdf that has a different list of NtM's... It does mention a couple of key marks 'destroyed' around Kawau too. The inside Starboard post is completely gone, as in not even there anymore. Confused the crap out of me heading out. I normally go straight to it then line up to cross the bar. Took a while to work out what had changed... The outer port marker is there, but the actual marker part (day shape and light) has broken and is hanging upside down against the post, just at water level at high tide. No idea if the light works, which is key for finding the river entrance in the dark. The inside port post is still there, but I've never used that. It is better than nothing though. The best line across the bar is to line up the outside port post with the inside starboard post. Now I'm having to rely solely on my chart plotter, with contravenes AT's Notice to Mariners.... As an aside, the starboard post has been looking shabby for ages, on a cock-eyed angle with the day shape and light looking very dubious. Anyone would think AT have stopped spending money on harbour master duties. I'll follow it up formally, but wanted to check I actually know how to read NtM's. I assume both marks were damaged in either the floods, the cyclone or the other bad weather, so I'd be very surprised the HM doesn't know already. Perhaps they just don't care?
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 16, 2023 22:43:03 GMT 12
How do these Notice to Mariners work with AT? I actually went out sailing today, and 2 of the 3 channel markers getting into the Weiti are destroyed. So I had a look at NtM to see what the details were, and can't find a thing. I'm looking at "local" NtM on that google gave me, on the AT website. at.govt.nz/boating-marine/local-notices-to-mariners/But note that there is a list of what appears to be current NTM's (including don't relay on a chart plotter, take paper charts...). It has a warning of fallen trees up the Weiti, but no mention of the key channel markers crossing the bay. But there is also a link to a pdf that has a different list of NtM's... It does mention a couple of key marks 'destroyed' around Kawau too. The inside Starboard post is completely gone, as in not even there anymore. Confused the crap out of me heading out. I normally go straight to it then line up to cross the bar. Took a while to work out what had changed... The outer port marker is there, but the actual marker part (day shape and light) has broken and is hanging upside down against the post, just at water level at high tide. No idea if the light works, which is key for finding the river entrance in the dark. The inside port post is still there, but I've never used that. It is better than nothing though. The best line across the bar is to line up the outside port post with the inside starboard post. Now I'm having to rely solely on my chart plotter, with contravenes AT's Notice to Mariners.... As an aside, the starboard post has been looking shabby for ages, on a cock-eyed angle with the day shape and light looking very dubious. Anyone would think AT have stopped spending money on harbour master duties. I'll follow it up formally, but wanted to check I actually know how to read NtM's. I assume both marks were damaged in either the floods, the cyclone or the other bad weather, so I'd be very surprised the HM doesn't know already. Perhaps they just don't care? AT NTMs are for things to avoid like sunken boats, trees broken poles that are below the waterline, etc They release navigational aid notices weekly, which talk about all the navigational things in AKL that are missing/broken, eg a light is out on beacon X on the entrance to harbour A There's also bi-weekly releases of navigational issues from LINZ for hydrographic changes and a current list of broadcast warnings on MaritimeNZ. If missing posts aren't on the AT Nav Warning, then it's most likely that no one has reported it to the Auckland Harbour Master, you should report them.
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Post by GO30 on Mar 17, 2023 8:29:56 GMT 12
Some of AT's gear is not subject to NtM. If you see anything let the Harbourmasters office know and they do try to get it sorted fast.
You can subscribe to NtM, no cost, and they send them to you every update. Just got another this morning. Suss around here somewhere and there should be a sign up spot.
charts.linz.govt.nz
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 8:37:42 GMT 12
Some of AT's gear is not subject to NtM. If you see anything let the Harbourmasters office know and they do try to get it sorted fast. You can subscribe to NtM, no cost, and they send them to you every update. Just got another this morning. Suss around here somewhere and there should be a sign up spot. charts.linz.govt.nz Thanks, I just found that link while searching the LINZ NtM. The LINZ ones are all the info for updating you paper charts. Which will be why they are so uptight about people relying on chartplotters (you can't update them). It would appear then, as far as I can tell, then the Harbour Master has not issued a NtM about the missing channel markers / posts. Now, I wonder how hard it is to get hold of a human?
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 8:50:56 GMT 12
Just spoke to the duty Harbour Master. Appears they didn't know about it. If this damage was done in the cyclone (or flood) I can't believe no-one has bothered reporting it.
Anyway got hold of a human easily, and he's just text me an email to send more details, coordinates etc so they can send it to the bouys & beacons team and follow it up.
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 17, 2023 9:27:16 GMT 12
Some of AT's gear is not subject to NtM. If you see anything let the Harbourmasters office know and they do try to get it sorted fast. You can subscribe to NtM, no cost, and they send them to you every update. Just got another this morning. Suss around here somewhere and there should be a sign up spot. charts.linz.govt.nz Thanks, I just found that link while searching the LINZ NtM. The LINZ ones are all the info for updating you paper charts. Which will be why they are so uptight about people relying on chartplotters (you can't update them). It would appear then, as far as I can tell, then the Harbour Master has not issued a NtM about the missing channel markers / posts. Now, I wonder how hard it is to get hold of a human? Providers update the chart plotter data from the published LINZ data pretty much immediately. My B&G Zeus downloads chart updates every two weeks at least.
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 9:48:50 GMT 12
Thanks, I just found that link while searching the LINZ NtM. The LINZ ones are all the info for updating you paper charts. Which will be why they are so uptight about people relying on chartplotters (you can't update them). It would appear then, as far as I can tell, then the Harbour Master has not issued a NtM about the missing channel markers / posts. Now, I wonder how hard it is to get hold of a human? Providers update the chart plotter data from the published LINZ data pretty much immediately. My B&G Zeus downloads chart updates every two weeks at least. Now there is a can of worms. My Garmin GPS Map 720s is about 10 years old. It is not connected to the interweb. Infact nothing on my boat is, its a 40 yr old Kauri log. So does your Zeus automatically update its charts, and how do you link it to the interweb? I've looked at new electronic charts a couple of times, and they are something like $300. I wouldn't mind those fancy high res fishing contours, but I don't fancy them enough to pay that much coin, when I can just stooge around and find the pinnacles & fish with my sounder (and research on Navionics online to know where to look for new spot X's). If I got keen, I'd sign up to Navionics and put it on my phone. Most of the islands and harbours haven't moved lately, and generally if the main lighthouses are working I'm not much worried about minor chart changes. Previous to this, the only mark that wasn't there that I was expecting to be there was a reg port can going into Izzy Bay, on the Rangi shore. It is so foul in there I take the long way around anyway. Call me old fashioned, but I like to look out of the boat a lot. I think they call it 'Pilotage'. Your charts can be as up to date as you want, it doesn't stop you hitting rocks. (You'll never guess how I know this...)
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 10:40:02 GMT 12
Harbour Master says they have the marks scheduled for repair and have given it priority, so it should only be a 'few weeks away'.
I've asked them to clarify if a NtM was issued, cause I can't find one.
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 11:14:25 GMT 12
HM has confirmed they haven't issued a NtM, and are going to do that today... They must have known about this for a month. They did say they've had a contractor clearing trees all the way to Silverdale. Strange priorities...
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Post by Fogg on Mar 17, 2023 12:12:55 GMT 12
Agree on pilotage being equally important to navigation.
Admiralty (UK) recently announced stopping paper charts from 2025.
Problem. Most small boats only use e-charts / plotters with no paper onboard. And the disclaimer when you switch on your device “These charts should not be relied on for navigation” means that technically you don’t have an official means of navigation onboard.
Which is ok if you’re a small private vessel.
And it’s ok if you’re a big ship because they use different (v big & expensive) systems.
But it’s a problem if you’re a small commercial operator because for legal (and insurance) purposes you must have an official navigation source onboard. Which means they should carry paper (even if they don’t reference it in practical terms). But once the paper disappears what happens?
So Admiralty were asked to extend paper printing until 2030 - which they agreed to - whilst the everyone else works out the solution.
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 17, 2023 12:42:46 GMT 12
Providers update the chart plotter data from the published LINZ data pretty much immediately. My B&G Zeus downloads chart updates every two weeks at least. Now there is a can of worms. My Garmin GPS Map 720s is about 10 years old. It is not connected to the interweb. Infact nothing on my boat is, its a 40 yr old Kauri log. So does your Zeus automatically update its charts, and how do you link it to the interweb? I've looked at new electronic charts a couple of times, and they are something like $300. I wouldn't mind those fancy high res fishing contours, but I don't fancy them enough to pay that much coin, when I can just stooge around and find the pinnacles & fish with my sounder (and research on Navionics online to know where to look for new spot X's). If I got keen, I'd sign up to Navionics and put it on my phone. Most of the islands and harbours haven't moved lately, and generally if the main lighthouses are working I'm not much worried about minor chart changes. Previous to this, the only mark that wasn't there that I was expecting to be there was a reg port can going into Izzy Bay, on the Rangi shore. It is so foul in there I take the long way around anyway. Call me old fashioned, but I like to look out of the boat a lot. I think they call it 'Pilotage'. Your charts can be as up to date as you want, it doesn't stop you hitting rocks. (You'll never guess how I know this...) Yes, it just connects to the Internet via my phone. I run Navionics on my phone, my phone finds the plotter and the updates happen - I do get a prompt asking me if I want to do it. It's of course the same argument as not bothering to update your paper charts right? I pay for an annual subscription and all my charts are updated, I don't have to spend the time (money) pulling them out and updating them manually. It's not just about lights, which are generally repaired. More importantly surveys get carried out and new rocks get marked on the charts.
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Post by GO30 on Mar 17, 2023 14:01:58 GMT 12
My trans Tasman chart has now done 10 or 11 trips. It was last updated in 1991.
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 14:04:06 GMT 12
Now there is a can of worms. My Garmin GPS Map 720s is about 10 years old. It is not connected to the interweb. Infact nothing on my boat is, its a 40 yr old Kauri log. So does your Zeus automatically update its charts, and how do you link it to the interweb? I've looked at new electronic charts a couple of times, and they are something like $300. I wouldn't mind those fancy high res fishing contours, but I don't fancy them enough to pay that much coin, when I can just stooge around and find the pinnacles & fish with my sounder (and research on Navionics online to know where to look for new spot X's). If I got keen, I'd sign up to Navionics and put it on my phone. Most of the islands and harbours haven't moved lately, and generally if the main lighthouses are working I'm not much worried about minor chart changes. Previous to this, the only mark that wasn't there that I was expecting to be there was a reg port can going into Izzy Bay, on the Rangi shore. It is so foul in there I take the long way around anyway. Call me old fashioned, but I like to look out of the boat a lot. I think they call it 'Pilotage'. Your charts can be as up to date as you want, it doesn't stop you hitting rocks. (You'll never guess how I know this...) How much is your annual sub? I assume B&G run navionics? Garmin wont talk to Navionics... Yes, it just connects to the Internet via my phone. I run Navionics on my phone, my phone finds the plotter and the updates happen - I do get a prompt asking me if I want to do it. It's of course the same argument as not bothering to update your paper charts right? I pay for an annual subscription and all my charts are updated, I don't have to spend the time (money) pulling them out and updating them manually. It's not just about lights, which are generally repaired. More importantly surveys get carried out and new rocks get marked on the charts.
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Post by fish on Mar 17, 2023 14:05:27 GMT 12
One thing this whole episode as taught me, is I am right in not bothering to read the NtM. In 25 yrs, the first time I actually could have done with knowing a beacon was missing, the HM didn't bother issueing a NtM for it...
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Post by sloopjohnb on Mar 17, 2023 15:16:53 GMT 12
My trans Tasman chart has now done 10 or 11 trips. It was last updated in 1991. In the 70's it was head north until you run out of land turn left and head 254 degrees compass. It's a big bit of land we headed for hard to miss.
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