Fresh air

So I spoke to wheels / grounded.

His two main gripes were:

1. Being named personally - he felt that’s an unnecessary gesture otherwise he would have signed up with his real name

2. Being encouraged to contribute his knowledge but then being criticised for being ‘too smart’

I understand his sensitivities - and remember that not everyone has got the thick hide of KM / GO30, for example!

As I’ve said before there won’t be any new rules / moderation on this but I encourage you all to consider the other side of the equation - and the risks that unconstrained free speech can potentially drive away some of our more sensitive (and knowledgeable) members!

Meanwhile, wheels / grounded is considering his options. And so if he does pop up here again please bear this in mind…

Thanks
Admin

great shame to see ground/wheels come and go

hope he returns

self-control is fine for people who can

but it seems there are always a few who just can't control themselves and the cost of carrying them

is losing many more

so imho there is always the need for a little 'light touch' moderation from above

Hi Guys. Yep it's me.
Firstly, thanks for the messages from both Fish and Fog. Thanks for the kind replies here from the many members.

Let me explain.
Maybe this is a way forward for us all including the way the Forum operates in the future and perhaps for Fog to work out what rule are needed or not.

Actually, as G030 will attest, I am not really all that soft. I can give back as much pretty good too. In fact there has been times when G030 has expected all out Nuclear from me and I have been able to calm down, and times when I haven't and he has seen it.
But yes I have a weak point. My Achilles Hell is, I cannot handle things very well when it becomes personal. And I am sure we are all like that in a way. If not, that person may have some other personality disorder.
We have to understand what open Forums are about. Discuss a topic rigoroulsy, but when one feels backed into a corner, don't bring it down to below belt level and make personal attacks, like... "your ugly and your mum dresses you funny". We all have varying different views or our World. I accept that. I note that a great deal of you have an anti vaxx view. I see the topic completely opposite from many of you. I have as much right to counter anyone elses arguments, as you do mine. If anyone of us get to a point of stalemate, we have to accpet that and perhaps stand back from the discusion.
However, in "that" particular discussion, Fish suddenly didn't like what I was saying and pushed back with (without going and looking up the actual wording) something along the lines of "get off my high horse" and "you are not an authority on this". Perhaps I am and no I am not. But that came across to me as personal attacking, not rigorous Forum discussion. And then when my real name was inserted, well......surely that makes it clear as to how I would interpret the tone of the reply?? If there is one thing that wriles both myself and G030, it is Hypocrisy. That is what got G030 in trouble most of the time on Crew. He pushes back when he sees a rule meant for all, suddenly being relaxed for someone in a position. Same for me and I am pretty sure that is why this BB was started and why the ones that are here, are so. Which leads me on to the next part.

So as Fog said, another issue i had was with my real name being used. I don't mean wheels, but my real name, Alan. I fully understood that some would have caught on fairly quickly that the new poster was "wheels". But only a few people that have likely met me at sometime in time, know my real name. And as we are on an Open Forum platform, I really prefer to keep my real name out of it. But I am not trying to remain Anonomous as such. You younger ones need to understand that I have been on Forums for decades. I don't know if this is still the rule of thumb, but it used to be Forum etiquette to not use anyones real name, unless a Forum Rule was for no Anomity. A rule of thimb just like, Using all capitals is assumed as Yelling. I was pretty sure that when I signed up here, this BB uses the software that allows for true identity to remain closed to everyone apart from those with Admin rights. It was very similar software to what I was using on Crusiers.
I would not have minded in the slightest if my handle of "wheels" had been used by the poster. I simply would have said, haha, cats out of the bag, yip it's me. But when my first name was used in context to the reply, I could really only take it one way. Whether the poster was intending to or not. It felt like a real low blow or slap in the face, more than the fact my name was being used.
Also keep in perspective that I do not know many behind the user names here or even on Crew for that matter. There are a few I know, but not many. It is highly possible I may have even met you, but I simply don't know you are behind the user name. So with that in my mind, I did not know the Poster actually knew who I was. I had figured that someone went digging and you surely must understand that is not the done thing. It's like the Poster has become personal, rather than an open discussion. So I totally read it wrong, but how was I to know.
But that is also why any BB must have some kind if rule or moderation, because no one gets to understand tone in words. Not any over the top moderation, but perhaps a gentle comment that hey, you might want to change your wording in your post kind if comment.
This same "personal attacking" situation started happening on Crew and I had enough in the end. I am sure many of you have seen me often comment..."I stand for correction". I am not afraid of being corrected if I am wrong. I often am. I am as fallible as anyone else is. But on certain subjects, I know my subject.
      If you do not know, I was one of the 5 that started off Cruisers Forum oh so many years ago now. Over time I ended up being the main Admin/Moderator. I was the one that brought G030 on as Admin to help me and that was the start of us getting to know each other and me working for him several years later. I created any of the Rules at the time, as a need, as the BB grew to the huge size it did. We were really only second in size to Anarchy. As it grew, it needed more rules and moderation. I had a desire to see it become a Family Cruising BB to meet the needs of Cruisers all over the World and many of them were cruising families. Then it got sold and I won't go into what took place between myself and the new owner. But I left.
       Crew is kind of similar. All the past owners have had a passion for a Sailing website. All of them allowed the "any topic forum" to exist due to the likes of yourselves asking for it. But it was also ground zero for a lot of explosive discussions at times and all the various owners grew weary of having to moderate it. As a BB grows bigger, the rules often have to become tougher or more encompasing. Having experienced this on Crusiers, Crew and a Professional Sound engineers BB I was part of years back, i have thus seen this happen 3 times. Eventualy someone complains of censorship and unfair and then toys get thrown. It's not really a case of censorship because they want certain people shut down. But it is about the vision the owner has for their BB, or what they want it to be and become. 
      Take a good look at this place, re the majority of the posts. The vast majority of posts are politcal and very argumentative if you have two opposing views. At the moment, you are all seemingly on one side. If the site is to grow, opposing views need to be tolerated, not shut out.
     The question for Fog is, does he want a sailing website? a Political bashing website? a place to just vent, or something more of a balance with Sailing and a place to vent in these stressful times. I suggest he probably wants a that later, or there is no need for the other Forums.
     But just as a heads up if the earlier is wanted. I had introduced three others here. All three took one look and said, "yeah nah, they are just a bunch of Tin Hat old guys argueing. That is why I made the Tin Hat comment on Crew by the way. It wasn't actually my own comment. HOWEVER, we should be able to accept all views.
Even to the Tin Foil Hat wearers..... Yes I am going to reply along the lines of "no you are not correct and I will give you the reasons why". Everyone has a right to say such, or should have the right. And you all have the right to reply, "but my experiance suggests you are wrong wheels". In fact when Fish and I discussed the situation, he told me of his personal experiance he had when vaccinated. I completely understood where he was comeing from. I am fully aware of those issues. I was not boohooing or discrediting his experience. But he never ever told me that in any of his early posts. How am I supposed to know. And how are others supposed to know that this is still rare, when compared to the number of vaccines given so far. So many have hear such bad stories that they are terrified and multitudes had turned up to be vaccinated crying their eyes out and had no problem at all. People need a balanced understanding and they are not getting it. I am 100% behind people getting a balanced understanding of both the benifits and the possible negatives and then it is their choice. Just like having surgery. Or the risk of simply getting in your car or bike and going to the local dairy.

And finally, do I come across as a know it all???!!!! Most likely. If I am confident in a subject, I don't know how to not come across that way. One thing you will notice if you look and maybe it is not obvious till you do, that on any subject I don't know or am not sure about, you will find I have never commented. There are huge amounts of Crew you will never find me participating in. The only posts I ever get to be seen in are those I have familiarity with the subject. So I possibly get seen as a know it all. Trust me, I am not a know it all. As G030 can show, his old building as several scars around where I have had ideas with no actual clue. He called me the mad scientist for a reason. And when he heard a loud bang come from the direction of the workshop, he usually remarked, Oh crap, what's he done now.

Re the Covid discussions and my credentials. I never sought to be involved at the level I have found myself at. I was asked by an organisation purely due to some advise I was giving to a few friends on my own FB page. They like what I had to say. I was nervous about the idea, but was encouraged by two close friends that are well qualified Drs. Both give training and advice to other Drs. One works with Medical professionals in both NZ and Oz. So they are not just general GPs. They said we will back you with advise, moderation, whatever needed, because we need to get real information out there. So I wrote several Blurbs t be used by various organisations. And also realise, I have been working with these Organisations for decades.
None and I repeat, NONE of the information I have given is my own personal view. Every single thing I say I have also provided links to. I have read, understood the best I could, had that fact checked by the Drs and then I would hand it out. I had been making updates when new info emerged. But it is all changing so dramatically fast now that I have about a months worth of new info to get upto date.
I fully understand the vax has gone wrong for quite a few. And in such a case, I NEVER give my own view. My reply to those people is to seek professional medical advice as to the way forward. I am passionate about the subject purely because I do not want to see people die, or hurt by long covid. Because I have been involved for so long now, I have seen so many or the negative arguements, read so much about the reasons why and so understand that many of the silly arguments are just that. I mean, the Vax cannot be all these things. Full of Tracking devices. Radio active. Full of Toxins. A poison that will kill everyone in two years. Causes people to shed Virus particles and infect others. Actually gives you covid. A means of controlling people. The Virus does not exist. Is not as dangerous as they say. Even Trumps stupid comments came from the sourcs of this sillyness. Shine a bright UV light up peoples rear end. Swollow Chloroxide. And just the last few days, as senetor has stated that Mouth Wash kills the Virus. So with so many different issues, which is true??? They can't all be. So therefore, it could also be said perhaps none of them are true. See where I am coming from?
And yet you still have the right to disagree with me if you so wish. Personally I would love to hear, can you provide a link to that information and you can make your own mind up.
Shutting someone down with an insult or personall attack is just another form of censorship.

Am now off to Greymouth to pick up a Rideon mower
I apologise for the very long post.

Welcome back grounded yay.

Love your post.

I think society as a whole has become very divided because of the political system but it's worse in this country because we are a young country and we have 2 dominate parties that are both devisive.

At the monument Labour are dividing the country between vaxxed and antivaxers, Maori and non Maori, rich v poor, unions v Business, councils v govt v people ( 3 waters), police v iwi, Aucklanders v rest of country, rural v city, kiwi v kiwi ( MIQ system), ...

That for me is the worst division I have ever seen in my 59 plus years.. and it's all driven by the Ardern government( mostly), MMP , and a weak National party.

Kiwis deserve better.

Anyway, more important than that crap is how we enjoy our lives and ignore the crap... And with that... I need a cunning plan for trimming the edges of my kikuyu lawn ( concrete drive / timber border) . I don't want to use a weed eater or weed killers or those silly wheel thingies.

I was thinking of a sharp knife on a stick ( no bending over) or if I had have to .. using a strip of flute board with a 10 mnm slot cut into it and attached to a spray bottle nozzle ( on a pole) that sprays weed killer on the slot as I drag it along. Thus killing the edge with a fine strip

What are your thoughts Mr Grounded aka wheels.

pS I know it's not a third world problem but hey there are plenty of experts sorting that crap out.

crew.org.nz/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/17873-new-controls-on-posts/page/2/

harrytom
Advanced Member
harrytom
Members
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3,144 posts
LocationAuckland
Posted Thursday at 06:01 PM
On 7/12/2021 at 11:55 AM, alibaba said:
Yeah- I sort of understand the limit, and why. BUT- I always find it disappointing that the solutions to this sort of problem always seem to penalise the innocent. I'm not sure that 95% of us should suffer because of the actions of a few. Bit like vaccinations and roadblocks really.

What was the point of "small talk"?? it was a place semi hidden and yes there were a few personal attacks. But no different to a Friday night at the club or away cruising and having different pints of view. Human nature at least there is an alternative site for those discussions.

During non racing periods/lockdown/up were those who wanted vent a point of view. Some of it was very humorous even if didnt agree to some content

Crew.org now seems to very limited numbers posting.

AND THEN THE REPLY CAME and I dispute the information.