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Post by ComfortZone on May 14, 2023 9:19:22 GMT 12
NZ is staring down the barrel of major power price increases, similar to UK, Europe, USA and Australia, due to the madness of the climate catastrophe clan, from the "horses mouth" www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/graeme-peters-former-electricity-network-association-ceo-says-electricity-prices-likely-to-rise/Even if a National led government gets in they are still buying into this nonsense, www.national.org.nz/electrifynzNational will make it easier to use abundant green energy to achieve a low-emissions, high-growth economy and put New Zealand on track to meeting its climate change goals this decade.Note no mention about cost Meanwhile across the Tasman www.news.com.au/finance/money/costs/aussies-to-be-slugged-with-higher-energy-prices-from-july-1/news-story/50ffab192af50589a0b15b79e06d9339this from a Liebour government elected on the basis power prices would not rise, and look where Germany, once Europe's industrial power house, is heading dailysceptic.org/2023/05/13/can-anyone-now-stop-the-greens-from-destroying-germany/ |
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Post by GO30 on May 14, 2023 13:33:16 GMT 12
Of course power prices will rise as more green energy comes on line.
We planning a development down in town at the moment, 8-10 town houses, and we're looking at going 100% solar for all power, no grid connection at all. Build with that in mind and then a few small changes to some habits and I'm now sure it is 100% viable. The cost is surprisingly closer to a standard install than everyone was expecting by the time you factor in connection charges and all that crap.
Doing some jiggery with water as well as if some get their way water prices will also rocket up.
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Post by fish on May 15, 2023 11:36:49 GMT 12
Of course power prices will rise as more green energy comes on line. We planning a development down in town at the moment, 8-10 town houses, and we're looking at going 100% solar for all power, no grid connection at all. Build with that in mind and then a few small changes to some habits and I'm now sure it is 100% viable. The cost is surprisingly closer to a standard install than everyone was expecting by the time you factor in connection charges and all that crap. Doing some jiggery with water as well as if some get their way water prices will also rocket up. I was looking into the details for utilities for a 4 to 7 lot development last year. Power connection costs are the biggest cost / risk in small developments like that. I'll bet you a good bottle of whisky that number of new connections will require at the least a new transformer, which start at $100k, and almost definitely a feeder line upgrade (which is more like a blank cheque). Chuck on the design costs, traffic management, basic pillar connections, ICP number, traffic management again, lines company approval and then actually doing the job. What is your electricity connection cost estimate GO30? Between $200-$300k? (wont be less than $150k, if it is, I'll send you a good bottle of single malt). Then, how many panels, inverters and battery banks can you get for $1/4 mil? Add in the future discount for not paying lines charges and kWh costs, and going full off grid for a new build in the middle of town starts looking very worthwhile. Spin some marketing bollocks about being woke / climate change in the sales pack, and job done. |
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Post by sloopjohnb on May 15, 2023 12:41:27 GMT 12
and if you do it make sure you get the lines company to sign it of, we are starting to claim back an electricaian bill from the lines company for bad workmanship which could have ended up fatal. We can't find anything on the Ënergy Safety High Risk Database"covering the power supply up the right of way to the 4 houses.
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Post by GO30 on May 16, 2023 9:46:18 GMT 12
Looks like the lines co, Vector, want to charge for all connections as they were individual even if they are done all at the same time and involves bugger all more work than doing just one. Similar to the Watercare.
Currently I'm being told 26.5K per unit for full solar, enough to generate around 13500Wh on average mid winter, over 31000 in summer, per day. That's running lithiums. We can tap in a auto start genny which we'd allow for. As we run the farm on a huge 4500Wh a day (average mid winter)with exceptional ease, if you build accordingly 13500 per day would be the heights of luxury.
Add in a pocket farm just down the road with Mum, Dad and 3 teenagers have lived quite happy for years on only 1000W of panels (the 13500 a day is 4650W of panels) doing the same on nearly 5 times more should be a doddle.
Sloop, the signing off by a lines Co comment, what's that about? Surely they don't get a say in stuff like that if there is no connection to the grid. Above I am talking 100% off grid, not grid tied in any form.
I have been told there is a law that says if the lines co have lines on your boundary you could hook into they can charge you the daily lines charge. I have yet to confirm that but I'd be happy arguing 'That's just bullshit so no service means no coin'.
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Post by em on May 16, 2023 10:05:27 GMT 12
Looks like the lines co, Vector, want to charge for all connections as they were individual even if they are done all at the same time and involves bugger all more work than doing just one. Similar to the Watercare. Currently I'm being told 26.5K per unit for full solar, enough to generate around 13500Wh on average mid winter, over 31000 in summer, per day. That's running lithiums. We can tap in a auto start genny which we'd allow for. As we run the farm on a huge 4500Wh a day (average mid winter)with exceptional ease, if you build accordingly 13500 per day would be the heights of luxury. Add in a pocket farm just down the road with Mum, Dad and 3 teenagers have lived quite happy for years on only 1000W of panels (the 13500 a day is 4650W of panels) doing the same on nearly 5 times more should be a doddle. Sloop, the signing off by a lines Co comment, what's that about? Surely they don't get a say in stuff like that if there is no connection to the grid. Above I am talking 100% off grid, not grid tied in any form. I have been told there is a law that says if the lines co have lines on your boundary you could hook into they can charge you the daily lines charge. I have yet to confirm that but I'd be happy arguing 'That's just bullshit so no service means no coin'. One generator per unit ? I can see arguments between neighbours if one or two hog the generator for spas on stormy nights or leave the heat pump on during cloudy weather when they are at work . |
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Post by fish on May 16, 2023 10:47:44 GMT 12
Looks like the lines co, Vector, want to charge for all connections as they were individual even if they are done all at the same time and involves bugger all more work than doing just one. Similar to the Watercare. Currently I'm being told 26.5K per unit for full solar, enough to generate around 13500Wh on average mid winter, over 31000 in summer, per day. That's running lithiums. We can tap in a auto start genny which we'd allow for. As we run the farm on a huge 4500Wh a day (average mid winter)with exceptional ease, if you build accordingly 13500 per day would be the heights of luxury. Add in a pocket farm just down the road with Mum, Dad and 3 teenagers have lived quite happy for years on only 1000W of panels (the 13500 a day is 4650W of panels) doing the same on nearly 5 times more should be a doddle. Sloop, the signing off by a lines Co comment, what's that about? Surely they don't get a say in stuff like that if there is no connection to the grid. Above I am talking 100% off grid, not grid tied in any form. I have been told there is a law that says if the lines co have lines on your boundary you could hook into they can charge you the daily lines charge. I have yet to confirm that but I'd be happy arguing 'That's just bullshit so no service means no coin'. Have you got an equivalent cost to connect to the grid per unit? to compare with the $27k solar / generator cost? Just be aware, you are breaking Vector's monopoly. Or are trying to. They will do what they can to shaft you. The paying lines charges if there is a line outside your property sounds plausible. The same applied for water and wastewater rates across Orcland before it got complicated with the CCO charging instead. The logic is that the value of your land increases because there is services at the boundary. I'm not saying it is logical though. |
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Post by fish on May 16, 2023 10:58:47 GMT 12
On the Vector charges, there are two other elements to think about.
1) There was a test case in the high court about Fungaparaoa residents being forced to connect to a new water network. This was ages ago, like pre-internet, so I don't know how to find the exact details. Rodney District Council were rolling out water network, and wanted to force each bach owner to connect. The bach owners kicked up and won. Now about 1/3rd of Fungaparaoa is still on tank water, including myself. It is the only example I am aware of where properties didn't have to pay for services they didn't want. The fish hook on that example was that any new builds were required to connect.
2) The Power Industry legislation allows for competition in the lines company sector. There is nothing stopping any other company setting up as a lines company, building the development infrastructure and charging the property owners a lines charge. This would cut Vector out of it. That company could be some random cow cocky from somewhere near Dargaville, or even an existing business specailising in bondage gear, line chains and ropes and stuff. I haven't got my head exactly around how all this works (if I did, I'd have a much larger, flashier boat by now). But Developers I have assisted in the past have set up their own lines company and operate it as an ongoing concern. Mind you that was for a 150 odd lot development. They same developers are putting in a shit-tonne of solar as well, and selling the power to either property occupiers or back to the grid.
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Post by jim on May 24, 2023 22:40:10 GMT 12
Winter starts next week... and the CEO of transpower announces there may be problems keeping the power on in the cold snaps... going by the last couple of years that shouldn't catch anyone offgaurd. Quite happy to have recently up graded our off grid setup with new lead-carbon batteries and enough solar panels to still generate meaningful power on the ever present cloudy days.
feel sorry for the old dears that rely totally on electricity for heating and cooking.
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Post by ComfortZone on May 24, 2023 23:32:30 GMT 12
Winter starts next week... and the CEO of transpower announces there may be problems keeping the power on in the cold snaps... going by the last couple of years that shouldn't catch anyone offgaurd. Quite happy to have recently up graded our off grid setup with new lead-carbon batteries and enough solar panels to still generate meaningful power on the ever present cloudy days. feel sorry for the old dears that rely totally on electricity for heating and cooking. all the more reason to be sailing north for the winter in our "space capsule"  |
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Post by ComfortZone on May 25, 2023 8:36:19 GMT 12
Winter starts next week... and the CEO of transpower announces there may be problems keeping the power on in the cold snaps... going by the last couple of years that shouldn't catch anyone offgaurd. Quite happy to have recently up graded our off grid setup with new lead-carbon batteries and enough solar panels to still generate meaningful power on the ever present cloudy days. feel sorry for the old dears that rely totally on electricity for heating and cooking. hang on, the hydro dams are full to overflowing and the geothermal fields are pumping away. We have the dirty Indonesian coal to keep Huntly going so there is no lack of generation. So this is saying Transpower have yet again failed in their basic remit which is to distribute power efficiently around the country. Was never a problem in the old NZED days. Alison Andrew, Tpower CEO should forgo her $1.5M salary if they cannot deliver power to consumers. The dopey government has gone one step further by launching a campaign saying we should take shorter showers and turn heaters down www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/05/govt_says_five_minutes_showers_to_pay_for_grants_spending.htmlEdit, from Cam Slater's post this morning At the same time as making you poorer through rising inflation and interest rates, the government has also announced that they want you to save power, creeping into your home to lecture you about how you live.
What they are actually telling you is how to make your life more miserable.
Checking you’re on the best power plan for you and your whanau
Switching off appliances at the wall when you’re not using them
Setting your heat pump to a maximum of 21 degrees
Changing your washing machine settings to cold wash
Shortening showers to five minutes.
Is this because we now need to save power so they can allocate it to the new electric furnace we’ve just been forced to pay for?
Are they suddenly waking up to the fact that EVs require electricity that we cannot generate? |
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Post by dutyfree on May 25, 2023 19:33:42 GMT 12
Lines companies dont care if you dont connect. Yes they are a monopoly, but each new connection fundamentally drives investment in the higher voltage parts of their networks. They earn regulated returns that are in the mid single digits.
Transpower is covering its arse. The issue in NZ is winter peaking. The lack of gas means that plants are shutting e.g. Contact will close TCC in Taranaki soon as it is due a big refurbishment and it is not worth doing. Geothermal are base load and do not peak. Hydro's peak but are constrained by their max capacity. So the Waikato system is about 1100 MW max output. It is comprised a large number of individual units across the stations. It is unusual to have all of them available as they all require maintenance at some point, which can take months if not longer. These are seriously big bits of rotating machinery.
So if you take peaking gas away (actually mid merit) which we have, Southdown ~120MW, Otahuhu ~350MW, soon TCC ~350MW, Te Rapa cogen ~20MW? you soon have a peaking issue. Not an energy issue i.e lake being full is an energy store, peaking is an installed capacity issue.
Large new power station take 3 to 10 years to develop from concept to operation. Land access, transmission access, supplier negotiations and consenting can take 3 to 5 years. Construction (excluding hydro) is about 2 years. Consent appeals can add another 2 years.
Solar does not peak, wind does not peak, geothermal can (but why would you the resource is constant), so we are left with hydro (see above) and a few remaining gas peakers plus the end of life Huntly.
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Post by fish on May 25, 2023 23:21:28 GMT 12
There is a sign on Whangaparaoa Road advertising 'Off Grid Heating', and underneath is a picture of a wood burner.
It wasn't long ago that a wood burner was just called a wood burner. Shit, I even thought that was a posh term. When I was a kid they were just called the fire.
But yeah, off grid is definitely a 'thing' now. Fascinating how people's perception of infallible infrastructure changes.
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Post by ComfortZone on May 26, 2023 8:51:00 GMT 12
There is a sign on Whangaparaoa Road advertising 'Off Grid Heating', and underneath is a picture of a wood burner. It wasn't long ago that a wood burner was just called a wood burner. Shit, I even thought that was a posh term. When I was a kid they were just called the fire. But yeah, off grid is definitely a 'thing' now. Fascinating how people's perception of infallible infrastructure changes. I remember as a kid we had a coal bin at home which was added to the tea tree, sourced from my grandparents farm, in the open fire. Also Dad used to buy coke occasionally from the old gas works on the corner of Beaumont and Fanshawe St. |
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