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Post by fish on Jun 25, 2023 11:57:04 GMT 12
This article is going to get some people fired up. Primarily it is about DoC being hopelessly captured by the tribes, but it covers far deeper issues. We can't even get to the point of discussing the pro's and con's of marine reserves, or other methods of marine conservation because of the race based legislation and twaddlebollocks endemic to our country. The big Waiheke marine reserve had been blocked. The local Iwi support it, and want to be involved in its management. BUT, the local Iwi has two factions, and the other faction thinks marine reserves are a western construct and reduces their mana moana. These are the same two factions that fucked up the Kennedy Point Marina with the weirdo protestors (the ones with young chicks who would get naked and wrestle with old white men trying to do their job). What I wasn't aware of is that reserves were proposed along the Otago and Canterbury coasts but were blocked by Nga Tahu, cause they wanted compensation. "No cash, no reserve". We are probably all aware of the Kermadec reserve cause the tribes want to fish it using cheap Taiwanese slave ships. The same applies for the Sub Antartic Islands. A fourth proposal for greater ocean protection – described as the jewel in the crown of the Hauraki Gulf – has stalled following opposition from iwi groups.
The Hākaimangō-Matiatia marine reserve would cover a 2350ha area northwest of Waiheke Island, and a decision was due last year.
Frustrated locals are now accusing the Department of Conservation (DOC) of “wilfully obstructing the process” because a number of iwi are opposed to the creation of a zone where fishing is banned.
After a decade of wrangling, Ngāi Tahu opposition to and demands for a compensation package stopped progress on a huge marine sanctuary off the coastlines of Otago and Canterbury.
Conservation group Friends of Hauraki Gulf are behind the plan (for the Waiheke reserve). DOC runs consultation on the application, and then prepares advice for the Minister of Conservation, who then makes a final decision.
Chair Mike Lee, a Waitematā and Gulf Islands councillor, says the agency has been “terrible to work with” and accused officials of “essentially making up their own legislation”.www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132383325/weve-been-played-locals-fury-as-jewel-in-the-crown-marine-reserve-stalled |
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Post by GO30 on Jun 25, 2023 12:11:38 GMT 12
Maori want money to have a marine reserve?
That shows how fucking self centred greedy fuckers who really need a good punch in the face some of these Maori elite are. No wonder so many of their own people think they are arseholes.
She's both funny but also correct -
That's a link to a twat that has Ladyheihei2.0 on it. If anyone knows how to get directly to her let me know.
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Post by harrytom on Jun 25, 2023 16:09:55 GMT 12
quote from "fish" The big Waiheke marine reserve had been blocked. The local Iwi support it, and want to be involved in its management. BUT, the local Iwi has two factions, and the other faction thinks marine reserves are a western construct and reduces their mana moana. Yes/No fucken "legasea" are dead agaist marine reserves as they believe they do not help stock the gulf,its a band aid at the bottom of the cliff.But they want biomass and work in or closely with IWI. legasea.co.nz/?interesting_fact=what-is-legaseas-stance-on-marine-reservesWhere marine reserves are proposed as a conservation measure for fisheries management we have found, through experience and research, that they do not always deliver the intended benefits. I personally would support the reserve and others, got to try something new ,not all about the recc fisherman having to travel to fish, what we have done so far hasn't worked, and still a firm believer of no fishing within 1 mile of any shore line or outer lying island or reef structure, also need to manage waste in to the harbours from storm water/silt etc mentioned the to the drop kicks at "legasea" an get told thats a boat for you row we are not interested in waste and your proposal would effect too many. Fuck sake the longer we leave it the more is damage done, short term pain for long term gain, fuck it close the inner gulf for 5yrs .Too bad if it effects me. |
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Post by fish on Jun 25, 2023 17:30:34 GMT 12
quote from "fish" The big Waiheke marine reserve had been blocked. The local Iwi support it, and want to be involved in its management. BUT, the local Iwi has two factions, and the other faction thinks marine reserves are a western construct and reduces their mana moana. Yes/No fucken "legasea" are dead agaist marine reserves as they believe they do not help stock the gulf,its a band aid at the bottom of the cliff.But they want biomass and work in or closely with IWI. legasea.co.nz/?interesting_fact=what-is-legaseas-stance-on-marine-reservesWhere marine reserves are proposed as a conservation measure for fisheries management we have found, through experience and research, that they do not always deliver the intended benefits. I personally would support the reserve and others, got to try something new ,not all about the recc fisherman having to travel to fish, what we have done so far hasn't worked, and still a firm believer of no fishing within 1 mile of any shore line or outer lying island or reef structure, also need to manage waste in to the harbours from storm water/silt etc mentioned the to the drop kicks at "legasea" an get told thats a boat for you row we are not interested in waste and your proposal would effect too many. Fuck sake the longer we leave it the more is damage done, short term pain for long term gain, fuck it close the inner gulf for 5yrs .Too bad if it effects me. The issue for me is that one very small sector of our society is blocking everything. In terms of requests for cash compensation, they are literally holding our environment to ransom. Whether or not marine reserves are the best way to go is an important question, but it is completely separate question from being blocked by this one small section of society. I think that there is ample evidence that marine reserves provide benefit. Goat Island has a long and well documented history of that. Do I think the whole place should be locked down in reserves? no. Personally I think your proposal to ban fishing within 1 nm of coast and structure is batshitcrazy. That is based on the fact that there are completely different ecosystems between pelargic fish and reef fish. BUT I think it is very important we collectively discuss how we can best manage our environment. In no order of priority, I would say we need to: 1) be able to smash or take as many kina as possible. Currently blocked by the Treaty as they are a treasure, apparently 2) complete ban on taking crayfish. This is as per 1) above, both are intended to address kina barrens that have a huge impact on the wider ecosystem 3) ban bottom trawling and dredging - again protecting ecosystems. Mud / sand bottoms have huge amounts of life. 4) move commercial fishing out of the Huaraki Gulf. Basic biomass thing. With such a huge population putting pressure on the Gulf for recreational, it simply can't handle commercial on top. But commercial can relocate easily outside of the population pressure areas. Trawlers tied up at North Wharf / the Viaduct is just a bad joke. 5) discuss more nuanced fishing controls, like upper size limits on snapper perhaps, and different levels of restrictions rather than blanket prohibitions you get in reserves. Example being commercial harvesting of bait fish. These are the ones sold at fishing shops as frozen bait. Leaves a fucking big hole in the ecosystem when a perse seiner comes through and scoops up all of the bait. Us fisho's should learn to catch our own, or learn to soft bait. There is huge ecosystem impact from buying frozen bait. If we are catching our own, the impact is dispersed and just a biomass thing. The perse sieners leave dead areas in their wake. I would probably chuck in increasing the minimum snapper size to 35cm. I was out last week and got a couple of barely legals, looking at them thinking I wouldn't even measure them they were so small. Measured them, and yup, they were legal. Lucky to get 100g of fillets off them. But its easy to get 200g of fillets off a 35cm snap. Aside from the practicalities about what we should be doing, it just amazes me that we have this society that allows such a small sector to dictate to the rest of us. Its enshrined in law, everywhere. In this case, DoC "must give effect to Ti Treati". I don't think I need to explain the outcomes if co-governance gets any traction. Can't wait for October. As National are saying, this will be a nation defining election, and the most important election since 1984. |
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Post by harrytom on Jun 25, 2023 17:50:30 GMT 12
The reason for 1 mile is simple,protect reef systems where spat/spawn grow to become bigger,its shelter from preditors
There is only roughly 5 or 6 inshore trawlers in the gulf and fish mid water targetting snapper,bottom contact happens when targeting gurnard,mainly west coast,best to leave comms working the same corridors that have for yrs ,relocate them and start the damage process all over again.
A legal snapper you will get more than 100grams,plenty of meat in the head,make a broth with it include backbone,fim area,utilise the fish more.
Yes 35cm and drop to 5max fish
Baitfish yep dont buy pilchards etc,only mullet from a comms guy,flounder is a better bait,in fact softbait or karubas/sliders is the go for me now.Bigger fish
The trawling is in a fraction of the hauraki gulf maritime park, waipu to waihi out to 12 NM
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Post by dutyfree on Jun 26, 2023 9:36:58 GMT 12
I read "Treaty Partners" and moved on
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Post by GO30 on Jun 26, 2023 12:07:37 GMT 12
The issue for me is that one very small sector of our society is blocking everything. In terms of requests for cash compensation, they are literally being allowed too hold our environment and society to ransom. Just corrected it for you. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 21, 2023 21:11:36 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Jul 22, 2023 10:06:38 GMT 12
Having had a quick look at the MPI stuff, as far as I can tell, the tribe is asking for this just because they can - to establish their tino rangatiratanga. There is no arguement put from a conservation or environment point of view. At least when the Waiheke tribe did this, they put a good arguement that the crays, paua and scollops were getting nailed by every man and his dog coming out at taking them. I also know that those Barrier areas are the only place you can expect to find crays now, with Waiheke closed and everywhere else basically dead. So there is some 'shifted' pressure onto these areas. Personally I think taking crays should be banned across the entire Gulf. They are the only thing that predates kina, and barrens are already a major problem. BUT I can't stand seeing this done on a racial basis, moreso with each tribe having the right to continue fishing / taking. Admittedly on Gt Barrier their are no supermarkets and seafood provides key sustenance, not just sport. I see there is a reference to banning commercial which is good, but it also captures recreationally. I think all of this is just a system of a dysfunctional fisheries management system. You close Waiheke, nekkminnit everyone is out at Barrier. Not rocket science. |
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Post by harrytom on Jul 22, 2023 13:28:15 GMT 12
Its OK " Fish" there 20 DOC no take zones heading our way soon.Havent seen the map yet but "Scott" at Tindale Marine Research is browsing on behalf of DOC
No issue Lock off areas to protect crays etc as long as includes NO TAKE FOR CUSTOMARY needs
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