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Post by fish on Aug 21, 2023 14:06:13 GMT 12
For Auckland commuters, Fullers has dropped 3 routes completely and slashed services on the Gulf Harbour and Half Moon Bay routes, due to a lack of staff. They've also canned the Coromandel service this summer. So I googled up what they pay their skippers: $39-$53/hr. $81k to $110k Whilst needing an onerous qualification. But check out the hours of work: Hours of work: Rotating roster (no set pattern) including public holidays and weekends No set pattern, usually 5 days on and 2 days off 120 hours over a 3-week period, average of 40 hours per week Shifts fall between the hours of 4.30am - 2am (morning, afternoon and night shifts) Morning shifts start between 4.30am - 8.30am and night shifts finish between 10pm - 2am. So you could be called on to work any time between 4:30 am through the day and night till 2am. With no set pattern. So even if you were happy doing shift work, you couldn't actually plan anything in your personal life, because, well, there is no set pattern. Organising a root in a whore house springs to mind. www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/495992/some-fullers360-auckland-ferry-services-scrapped-auckland-transport-announceswww.seek.co.nz/job/68850527?type=standout#sol=1defd4781fb84ef474c879cfb5c93b15aab949ff |
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Post by Fogg on Aug 21, 2023 14:46:14 GMT 12
Normally companies screw it up by making their operating model either too staff focused (at the expense of customers) or vice-versa. But only in NZ could we turn a simple ferry service into something so complicated it spectacularly manages to piss off BOTH staff + customers at the same time. Plus they have the benefit of big subsidies from AT, which ought to make things a bit easier to put together a half-decent service model. But apparently not.
You really couldn’t make it up.
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Post by GO30 on Aug 21, 2023 14:51:44 GMT 12
This just shows how fucking dumb and stupid the dickheads who control public transport around Auckland actually are. No Bayswater/Northcote BH or the other one just around the corner, all been canned yet are are busy routes.
Instead of running a ferry to each of those 3 every 20mins why not run 1 ferry to all of them say every 40 minutes, BOOM the need for 3 boats and crew is suddenly decreased by 67%. I'm sure people could work around that, we all did back in the day when the double deckers ran every 40 mins.
I heard one wapping on last week it'll take them 18 months to train a new crew. 18 months, you have to be kidding me, I could learn to drive a Space Shuttle in less than that. Mind you looking at Fishes list above I can see why they don;t have many applicants.
It almost seems if Govt or Council can not deliver by next week a gold plated complete with fully chromed grease nipples and all with Platinum Grade LBGTQISTD+ accreditation like service they say fuck it and throw their hands in the air before canning everything.
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Post by sloopjohnb on Aug 21, 2023 15:09:40 GMT 12
but the Space Shuttle don't have to learn the culture, customs and language of a minority race, which has BA to drive a boat across water.
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Post by DuckMaster on Aug 21, 2023 18:58:33 GMT 12
I heard one wapping on last week it'll take them 18 months to train a new crew. 18 months, you have to be kidding me, I could learn to drive a Space Shuttle in less than that. Mind you looking at Fishes list above I can see why they don;t have many applicants. The problem is our MNZ laws. It takes like 1 year of continuous service hours to get to qualified deck hand then another year to get to 2ic and then even more months of service hours to get to skipper... In the interim the person Fullers have invested time into training finds a better job and Fullers needs to start again... The MNZ rules are so difficult by the time a kid has worked his butt off to get to 2ic if they are still interested in maritime there's way more exciting commercial places than the ferry commute... |
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Post by fish on Aug 21, 2023 19:28:49 GMT 12
I heard one wapping on last week it'll take them 18 months to train a new crew. 18 months, you have to be kidding me, I could learn to drive a Space Shuttle in less than that. Mind you looking at Fishes list above I can see why they don;t have many applicants. The problem is our MNZ laws. It takes like 1 year of continuous service hours to get to qualified deck hand then another year to get to 2ic and then even more months of service hours to get to skipper... In the interim the person Fullers have invested time into training finds a better job and Fullers needs to start again... The MNZ rules are so difficult by the time a kid has worked his butt off to get to 2ic if they are still interested in maritime there's way more exciting commercial places than the ferry commute... But skipper restricted limits only requires 200 hrs of sea time. Logged and all that. This is the qual they are asking for, with endorsements. After you get SRL, then you have to several endoresments, over 24m, and more than 19 people. I don't know what is involved in those. You also need some sort of mechanical / engineer ticket. Strangely, you also need to pass a test of 'good character'. Like you are joining some private members club or exclusive golf club. You are driving a bus on water for fucks sake. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Aug 21, 2023 20:14:01 GMT 12
They want people to already have SRL?
Wow. So that's 25x 24hour periods at sea. Cause you can only log 8 hours in every 24 hour period.
Or you can log 8 hours if you work a full 8 hours continuously. Eg if you work 7.5hrs it isn't counted.
Then there's the specific training that you have to complete during the 200 hours. Ironically that will probably take you longer than the 200 hours.
To get passenger endorsement you need to log six months of sea service on a commercial passenger ship as a deck hand. 160 hours of service made up of full 8 hour days counts as 1 month of sea service. Again you can't count two 4 hour days.
To get endorsement to 24m you need another 6 months of sea service as a deck hand on a commercial ship of 12m or more.
For both you need to undertake all kinds of training courses like first aid, crowd management, sea survival etc
So in theory you could get a SRL with passenger and 24m endorsements in 13months.
And then you're just a deck hand in training!
Now that you have your SRL you can work towards your Watchkeeper Deck < 500 GT NC...
Sea service requirements You can choose from two options for the sea service requirements for Watchkeeper Deck <500 GT NC, as shown below. You must complete one of them.
Option 1 A minimum of 36 months on vessels of 12 metres or more. At least 18 months must be obtained beyond restricted limits in a deck capacity on non-fishing vessels.
Option 2 At least 12 months on vessels of 12 metres or more and evidence of additional training. At least 6 months must be beyond restricted limits in a deck capacity on a non-fishing vessel and evidence of additional training that is acceptable to the director for a reduction in sea service.
After you have your Watchkeeper you can work towards your Masters....
That's ANOTHER 12 months of sea service and more training....
So after 4 years hard out yaka assuming you didn't take any holidays you can start driving the ferry... Whoop!
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Post by fish on Aug 21, 2023 21:09:17 GMT 12
So after 4 years hard out yaka assuming you didn't take any holidays you can start driving the ferry... Whoop! Or, in those 4 years you could go to uni, get a professional degree and get a job where you don't have to work shifts with no set pattern. For ever. Seriously, how hard is it to drive a ferry? The training sounds set up for those going onto large international freighters or cruise ships. Sure the ferries are fast, but you just point them where you want to go and put the hammer down. Can't be any more complicated to drive than the standard Rivieria / Martimo. How does all this compare to getting a commercial pilots license? It would be roughly the same wouldn't it? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Aug 21, 2023 22:31:14 GMT 12
So after 4 years hard out yaka assuming you didn't take any holidays you can start driving the ferry... Whoop! Or, in those 4 years you could go to uni, get a professional degree and get a job where you don't have to work shifts with no set pattern. For ever. Seriously, how hard is it to drive a ferry? The training sounds set up for those going onto large international freighters or cruise ships. Sure the ferries are fast, but you just point them where you want to go and put the hammer down. Can't be any more complicated to drive than the standard Rivieria / Martimo. How does all this compare to getting a commercial pilots license? It would be roughly the same wouldn't it? Yep MaritimeNZ rules make it really hard... And No, that's for what they call a Near Coastal certificate. (NC). If you want to actually go to Sea and and be a captain of a ship with the top Master certificate able to operate any sized vessel in any waters then you need about another 6 years on top of the above. |
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Post by GO30 on Aug 21, 2023 22:37:55 GMT 12
So after 4 years hard out yaka assuming you didn't take any holidays you can start driving the ferry... Whoop! Or, in those 4 years you could go to uni, get a professional degree and get a job where you don't have to work shifts with no set pattern. For ever. Seriously, how hard is it to drive a ferry? The training sounds set up for those going onto large international freighters or cruise ships. Sure the ferries are fast, but you just point them where you want to go and put the hammer down. Can't be any more complicated to drive than the standard Rivieria / Martimo. How does all this compare to getting a commercial pilots license? It would be roughly the same wouldn't it? In 4 years you could train a dead possum to drive a ferry across the harbour. They taught me in way less time than that. I think the staff excuse is a little disingenuous even if I know they have pissed off, sorry, lost a few drivers over the last 1 year - 18months.
A ferry or a Riv/Mar? I'd say the ferries are easier as they are designed to be so in most aspects. They even come with staff to help.
They say work on 'around 50hrs of flying plus some time each trip for a pre and post briefing' before you go for your Private Pilots. The dude driving your A320 to Welly and back will have clocked up many many 100's plus 2 small forests of paperwork and a motherload of exams before they get to sit in the right hand seat. The head pilot or PIC, Pilot in Charge, usually sits in the left hand seat.
Flight training is many many hours of learning how to crash and then walk away from it. So having done a bit of both I'd prefer my aircraft pilot does many more hours of training above what my ferry Pilot gets. Basically it's the difference between a fuck up happening at 15-30knots or 200-500 knots.
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Post by fish on Aug 22, 2023 21:04:25 GMT 12
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Post by DuckMaster on Aug 23, 2023 8:28:10 GMT 12
Are you proposing that our transport services should be run by local government? |
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Post by fish on Aug 23, 2023 9:02:10 GMT 12
Are you proposing that our transport services should be run by local government? Not sure what your point is, but Local Govt via AT already run public transport in Auckland via a number of service contracts. AT are proposing to run the new electric ferries themselves, or at least own the ferries directly and contract their running, but dictate all elements of the operation via the service contract. All through the country local govt already run public transport. The service contracts are so prescriptive that the actual operators can't take a shit without AT / Local govt approvals. From the colour of buses to how much they pay the drivers. Along with routes, bus spec's, timetables, how to pay, what to pay. All elements of running public transport. Almost always by the provision of service contracts. So what are you saying Ducky? Perhaps if we actually had a free market in public transport services the ferry companies could pay enough to get skippers, the companies that fuck their skippers around would loose out, and the companies that look after their skippers well would dominate the routes and patronage? Crazy idea I know. |
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