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VHF ranges
Dec 20, 2023 12:56:04 GMT 12
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Post by Fogg on Dec 20, 2023 12:56:04 GMT 12
I know VHF signals can exceed normal ‘line-of-sight’ ranges in warm, dry, high-pressure situations and around Auckland I’ve frequently heard “Plenty Radio” on Ch16 during summer.
But today was a new record. I just heard “Picton Radio” calling about a runabout broken down in Christy’s Bay, Marlborough.
Presumably this was the usual Maritime Radio dude (it sounded like him) using the Picton antenna for his call.
Which is pretty good throw of 100s of km.
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VHF ranges
Dec 20, 2023 20:56:45 GMT 12
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 20, 2023 20:56:45 GMT 12
I suspect he pressed the wrong button choosing the wrong antenna...?
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Post by GO30 on Dec 21, 2023 10:57:16 GMT 12
Depends a lot on how far VHF is heard. When we fly over North Shore we can hear near the entire north island on the open channel. But we do have the advantage of height.
To hear Picton from the H Gulf water level would almost certainly have to be repeated somehow.
I can be over Whangarei and chat to Christchurch Information via VHF but it does use repeaters.
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VHF ranges
Dec 21, 2023 14:37:20 GMT 12
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Post by Fogg on Dec 21, 2023 14:37:20 GMT 12
My recollection - from my RYA VHF training course in the UK about 40yrs ago (😊) is that under certain atmospheric conditions - like we have now - the VHF waves can behave more like the much longer HF waves and travel much further than horizon line-of-sight. Basically they bounce around the curvature of the earth exactly as long wave radio propagates for 1000s of miles.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 21, 2023 18:00:54 GMT 12
Yeah, but not that far.
HF waves propagate because they bounce off the ionosphere.
VHF radio waves can be refracted by humidity and can curve with the earth but not from Picton.
I doubt a 25W transmitter would even have the range to reach Auckland from Picton even if they had line of sight because the atmosphere would break up the signal.
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 21, 2023 18:38:54 GMT 12
Yeah, but not that far. HF waves propagate because they bounce off the ionosphere. VHF radio waves can be refracted by humidity and can curve with the earth but not from Picton. I doubt a 25W transmitter would even have the range to reach Auckland from Picton even if they had line of sight because the atmosphere would break up the signal. It is possible under certain conditions by Tropospheric Ducting en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation#Tropospheric_ductingHAM operators working the 2m band (just below Marine VHF) experience it from time to time picking up quite distant signals, which of course is what they are always chasing.
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Post by Fogg on Dec 21, 2023 18:47:12 GMT 12
TROPOSPHERIC DUCTING:
Tropospheric Ducting is the phenomenon responsible for those happy occasions when VHF radios communicate over hundreds (or even a thousand) miles. The “Tropo” effect can occur at any time in any season, but late spring and early fall sunrise and sunsets are the most likely times.
Tropo’ Ducting occurs when humidity and temperature combine to create a wall of ionized particles in the troposphere, typically during a wide-spread temperature inversion. At sunrise, the air aloft is warmed more rapidly than the air below. As the sun begins to set, later in the day, the upper air is kept warm, while the ground cools. This creates a duct, or channel, between the ionized layer. Because sunspot activity increases ionization, certain times within the 11 year sunspot cycle are more likely to produce ducting. The current cycle is increasing through 2004, then will subside until 2009, when the cycle begins increasing again. The next 2 - 3 years should produce some interesting opportunities for VHF’ers to communicate over long distances.
The radio signal is bounced back & forth between these ionized layers, until they find a path back to earth. The result is that your signal may seem stronger 300 - 500 miles away, than it does a mere 15 miles away. As long as both stations are within the duct zone, extremely long range may be experience. The phenomenon is more likely at frequencies above 144 MHz (VHF is 156-157MHz), and most likely between 432MHz & 1296MHz.
So, watch the weather for temperature inversions - you may get the opportunity to do some “Ducting” in the next few years.
There is an on-line “Tropospheric Ducting Forecast” available at: <http://www.iprimus.ca/~!hepburn/tropo/_nwe/html>
“Basic VHF Radio Wave Propagation” First Draft Copy - June 17/03 Copyright 2003 by Gordon A. May - All Rights Reserved
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 21, 2023 19:03:06 GMT 12
I still reckon the guy in Wellington at MaritimeNZ pressed the wrong button. But I have learnt something
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VHF ranges
Dec 21, 2023 19:17:50 GMT 12
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Post by Fogg on Dec 21, 2023 19:17:50 GMT 12
I think there’s a chance he pressed the wrong button.
But I have heard “Plenty Radio” or “Taupo Radio” frequently enough when I’m in the Gulf that I’m confident that isn’t always operator error but extended propagation.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 21, 2023 20:26:15 GMT 12
I think there’s a chance he pressed the wrong button. But I have heard “Plenty Radio” or “Taupo Radio” frequently enough when I’m in the Gulf that I’m confident that isn’t always operator error but extended propagation. Taupo Radio is nationwide. You can call them from anywhere and they will answer. They are ZLM. This is from when it was the HF base station, now only the antenna is there. If you hear them calling "this is Taupo Maritime Radio" on VHF then they are almost certainly transmitting simultaneously on the HF frequencies and all the VHF locations country wide. But you can call Taupo Maritime Radio and you'll be speaking to the same person as if called Auckland Maritime Radio, or just "Maritime Radio". But yeah if you are hearing Plenty Radio then that's definitely possible.
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