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Post by GO30 on Mar 19, 2024 9:53:10 GMT 12
A few cold beers, how slutty is that Do you know when the rigging went on? They do have some anal thing about 10 years which seems to the the gist of it all. If less than 10 and things look OK then you pass sort of a deal. Over 10 then maybe extra la-de-da words might work. Strangely enough on asking they see fibre as just the same which strongly suggests someones made it up based on probably 1 incident and now it's gone viral within the industry. On asking Westhaven why the 5mill* as I was being asked to justify that large sum, Westhaven had nothing except 'its best practice' which seems very ironic for a mob whose arrogance seems to give then the right to ignores here there and everywhere, the hypercritical aholes.
In a way I'm not too against rig checks by a 3rd set of eye that has a few clues. The number if times we hop on boats to swap anchors to find the connection 1/2 undone would scare you. When mentioning that to owner the number of times they reply 'Oh yeah, I was meaning to sort that' would scare you more. So in a way a new set of eyes may see a simple opps coming on or just being there be they spark needed for owner to do what they know really needs doing. Totally in there with you and Muz about all this is getting OTT and turning people off. Being in the game, and Comm fighting with assorted arseholes (spelt Panuku), the petulant 5 year olds (who have been around the sun 50 plus times) in the club and all the dross like this has been a noticeable input as to why the 930 is not back floating, I just got over it all. But I've punch thru that, again, so close to back in to it. * - on sussing the 5mill comes from a sparky who set a boat on fire in Aussie which toasted one either side for a 4.5mill claim. But that is contractor liability which is very separate to damage caused by a boat. And to get back to ironical, a Fullers ferry which is not suppose to be in Westhaven anyway yet Panuku turns a blind eye, smacked a classic causing a 5 figure sum of damage. Both Westhaven and Fullers told the classic to fuck off, neither gave a shit and Westhaven actively made it harder for the classic to go Fullers using bullshit.
Grrrrr........
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 19, 2024 13:28:32 GMT 12
Then the question, does your gas comply with NZ Standards? What a feckin can of worms. Yes, because the install predates the 2010 gas Act and the Act is not retrospective. No, because it does not comply with the current requirements. What do Nautical mean by 'comply'? On discussion with the Nautical guy, he stated "as long as it is safe". OK. It has been safe for the last 38 years, but how do I get someone to certify it is safe. I need a gas fitter. Hmm. Then, the current gas standards prescribe what is deemed safe. So how can I get someone to state it is safe when it doesn't comply with the current prescription with what is safe - Nautical Guy "I'll have to come back to you on that", yeah, spinner. So, talk to gas fitter. State system is small bottle and single stove, nothing else. He states it must have copper pipe (we have hose), with flexible stainless hose at each end, two gas sniffers interlinked with a solenoid shut off valve. Then, Nautical Guy says "as long as your system doesn't have copper pipe, we don't like that cause it corrodes" FAARRRKKKKKK!!!!! Turns out, the Gas Standards (which I have access to) state that if it is a single appliance only, you can use gas hose, as we have, to NZS 1869 class C. Grr, so the Gas fitter doesn't appear to understand or be familiar with the regs, and wants to add $2-3k to the job for shits and giggles. That gas fitter is widely recommended in the industry, including by marine stove retailers. Get hold of a different gas fitter (recommended by our boat builder, who will do the survey) who confirms I can used gas hose not copper pipe, don't need sniffers or a solenoid valve. I can run a new gas hose, apply warning labels and stickers etc, but he is still going to charge me $770 of crimping either end of the hose and issuing a certificate. That is after I spend $2k replacing the perfectly good stove with a new, shitty one, cause me existing stove doesn't have a user manual, and doesn't have automatic flame out on all elements (just the oven). Re gas cert, a mate of mine found these guys to be very sensible and practical, suggest you have a chat with them www.marinedomesticgas.co.nz/I used another guy from Warkworth for CZ last year. There was no suggestion about my legacy installation being brought up to comply with the letter of the current (2013 ) standard. My nearly 40yr old Mariner stove was no problem nor was the locker drain hole being 12mm rather than 19mm. I have a gas detector and solenoid control (bottle too hard to get at to be turning on and off manually). He ran a pressure test on the system and did a visual check on the pipe and fittings. Only "upgrades" were he wanted some protection on the copper pipe because it shared its trunking with electrical cables (solved on the spot with some split loom tube) and he put a big sticker on the outside of the gas locker. The key items I believe they will look at/for to determine "safe" for a legacy installation are 1. Gas tight draining bottle locker 2. condition of tubes, flexible and fittings 3. Gas detector 4. and will most likely want to pressure test the system 5. Notwithstanding it may be a legacy installation, they will not accept a gas califont installed in the cabin. As long as you have a gas certificate the insurance company has its arse covered.
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Post by fish on Mar 19, 2024 13:41:06 GMT 12
Then the question, does your gas comply with NZ Standards? What a feckin can of worms. Yes, because the install predates the 2010 gas Act and the Act is not retrospective. No, because it does not comply with the current requirements. What do Nautical mean by 'comply'? On discussion with the Nautical guy, he stated "as long as it is safe". OK. It has been safe for the last 38 years, but how do I get someone to certify it is safe. I need a gas fitter. Hmm. Then, the current gas standards prescribe what is deemed safe. So how can I get someone to state it is safe when it doesn't comply with the current prescription with what is safe - Nautical Guy "I'll have to come back to you on that", yeah, spinner. So, talk to gas fitter. State system is small bottle and single stove, nothing else. He states it must have copper pipe (we have hose), with flexible stainless hose at each end, two gas sniffers interlinked with a solenoid shut off valve. Then, Nautical Guy says "as long as your system doesn't have copper pipe, we don't like that cause it corrodes" FAARRRKKKKKK!!!!! Turns out, the Gas Standards (which I have access to) state that if it is a single appliance only, you can use gas hose, as we have, to NZS 1869 class C. Grr, so the Gas fitter doesn't appear to understand or be familiar with the regs, and wants to add $2-3k to the job for shits and giggles. That gas fitter is widely recommended in the industry, including by marine stove retailers. Get hold of a different gas fitter (recommended by our boat builder, who will do the survey) who confirms I can used gas hose not copper pipe, don't need sniffers or a solenoid valve. I can run a new gas hose, apply warning labels and stickers etc, but he is still going to charge me $770 of crimping either end of the hose and issuing a certificate. That is after I spend $2k replacing the perfectly good stove with a new, shitty one, cause me existing stove doesn't have a user manual, and doesn't have automatic flame out on all elements (just the oven). Re gas cert, a mate of mine found these guys to be very sensible and practical, suggest you have a chat with them www.marinedomesticgas.co.nz/I used another guy from Warkworth for CZ last year. There was no suggestion about my legacy installation being brought up to comply with the letter of the current (2013 ) standard. My nearly 40yr old Mariner stove was no problem nor was the locker drain hole being 12mm rather than 19mm. I have a gas detector and solenoid control (bottle too hard to get at to be turning on and off manually). He ran a pressure test on the system and did a visual check on the pipe and fittings. Only "upgrades" were he wanted some protection on the copper pipe because it shared its trunking with electrical cables (solved on the spot with some split loom tube) and he put a big sticker on the outside of the gas locker. The key items I believe they will look at/for to determine "safe" for a legacy installation are 1. Gas tight draining bottle locker 2. condition of tubes, flexible and fittings 3. Gas detector 4. and will most likely want to pressure test the system 5. Notwithstanding it may be a legacy installation, they will not accept a gas califont installed in the cabin. As long as you have a gas certificate the insurance company has its arse covered. I am working with marinedomesticgas.co.nz As per the standards, if ANYTHING in the system doesn't comply with the current standards they can't / shouldn't issue a gas cert. CZ does your 40 yr old Mariner Stove have automatic flame out on all elements? That was the main issue with mine. Everything else is basically fine, accept that I need to renew 2.5m of $12/m gas hose due to age, oh, and need some silly warning stickers around the place. I think the difference between 12mm and 19mm drain is inconsequential myself. The Marine and Domestic guys state gas sniffers and solenoids are not part of the system (with reference to a single appliance system). I couldn't find reference to them in the gas standard. It is certainly not obvious. If your stove doesn't have flame out on all the elements, and you have a gas certificate, could you PM me the name of your Warkworth based gas guy? PS, don't answer publicly if your stove doesn't have flame out, if you don't want to ;-)
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 19, 2024 17:21:34 GMT 12
Re gas cert, a mate of mine found these guys to be very sensible and practical, suggest you have a chat with them www.marinedomesticgas.co.nz/I used another guy from Warkworth for CZ last year. There was no suggestion about my legacy installation being brought up to comply with the letter of the current (2013 ) standard. My nearly 40yr old Mariner stove was no problem nor was the locker drain hole being 12mm rather than 19mm. I have a gas detector and solenoid control (bottle too hard to get at to be turning on and off manually). He ran a pressure test on the system and did a visual check on the pipe and fittings. Only "upgrades" were he wanted some protection on the copper pipe because it shared its trunking with electrical cables (solved on the spot with some split loom tube) and he put a big sticker on the outside of the gas locker. The key items I believe they will look at/for to determine "safe" for a legacy installation are 1. Gas tight draining bottle locker 2. condition of tubes, flexible and fittings 3. Gas detector 4. and will most likely want to pressure test the system 5. Notwithstanding it may be a legacy installation, they will not accept a gas califont installed in the cabin. As long as you have a gas certificate the insurance company has its arse covered. I am working with marinedomesticgas.co.nz As per the standards, if ANYTHING in the system doesn't comply with the current standards they can't / shouldn't issue a gas cert. CZ does your 40 yr old Mariner Stove have automatic flame out on all elements? That was the main issue with mine. Everything else is basically fine, accept that I need to renew 2.5m of $12/m gas hose due to age, oh, and need some silly warning stickers around the place. I think the difference between 12mm and 19mm drain is inconsequential myself. The Marine and Domestic guys state gas sniffers and solenoids are not part of the system (with reference to a single appliance system). I couldn't find reference to them in the gas standard. It is certainly not obvious. If your stove doesn't have flame out on all the elements, and you have a gas certificate, could you PM me the name of your Warkworth based gas guy? PS, don't answer publicly if your stove doesn't have flame out, if you don't want to ;-) All very interesting and I have had 2 gas certs for my legacy installation issued during the time this standard has been operative, so how do they respond to clause 1.5 (my underlining and bolding), The requirements of this Standard shall be used in conjunction with, but do not take precedence over, statutory regulations that may apply in any area. Where no requirement is given, good practice shall apply. In a matter of uncertainty, advice should be sought. This Standard applies to new installations, alterations and extensions commenced after its publication date or the date of adoption by the relevant Technical Regulator. It does not
apply retrospectively to existing installations, but any repairs or modifications to existing installations shall comply with the requirements of this Standard.You are correct re detectors, they are defined in 1.7.28 and the only reference to a specific requirement is in 7.6 where there is a continuous flame, for say a gas heater or gas fridge. Then you require something like the BEP combined gas detector and solenoid controller. This same nonsense with inspectors trying to impose retrospectivity goes on with EWOF's. An electrical inspector once high lighted to me that probably 75% of land based installations did not conform to the latest version of AS/NZS 3000, but as it is similarly not retrospective there is no requirement to upgrade all these installations. Problem with legacy installations is you are at the mercy of the inspector's judgement/discretion as to what constitutes "safe", very subjective and more comes down to arse covering than anything else! Edit - The certificate issued by a gas fitter is certifying that any work he has done is compliant with the standard, just like the yellow page a sparky should give you when he installs/repairs something in your house. It is only certifying the entire installation when the gas fitter has made a complete new installation in accordance with the Standard. The certificate's title is "Gasfitting Certificate of Compliance - Gas Safety Certificate" with the references therein referring to the "work" undertaken. So for a legacy installation the only "work" they typically undertake is a pressure test and maybe installation of new pipework. If a new stove is installed then yes it needs to be compliant, but this is not the case for an existing installation.
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Post by em on Mar 21, 2024 19:41:56 GMT 12
A few cold beers, how slutty is that Do you know when the rigging went on? They do have some anal thing about 10 years which seems to the the gist of it all. If less than 10 and things look OK then you pass sort of a deal. Over 10 then maybe extra la-de-da words might work. Strangely enough on asking they see fibre as just the same which strongly suggests someones made it up based on probably 1 incident and now it's gone viral within the industry. On asking Westhaven why the 5mill* as I was being asked to justify that large sum, Westhaven had nothing except 'its best practice' which seems very ironic for a mob whose arrogance seems to give then the right to ignores here there and everywhere, the hypercritical aholes.
In a way I'm not too against rig checks by a 3rd set of eye that has a few clues. The number if times we hop on boats to swap anchors to find the connection 1/2 undone would scare you. When mentioning that to owner the number of times they reply 'Oh yeah, I was meaning to sort that' would scare you more. So in a way a new set of eyes may see a simple opps coming on or just being there be they spark needed for owner to do what they know really needs doing. Totally in there with you and Muz about all this is getting OTT and turning people off. Being in the game, and Comm fighting with assorted arseholes (spelt Panuku), the petulant 5 year olds (who have been around the sun 50 plus times) in the club and all the dross like this has been a noticeable input as to why the 930 is not back floating, I just got over it all. But I've punch thru that, again, so close to back in to it. * - on sussing the 5mill comes from a sparky who set a boat on fire in Aussie which toasted one either side for a 4.5mill claim. But that is contractor liability which is very separate to damage caused by a boat. And to get back to ironical, a Fullers ferry which is not suppose to be in Westhaven anyway yet Panuku turns a blind eye, smacked a classic causing a 5 figure sum of damage. Both Westhaven and Fullers told the classic to fuck off, neither gave a shit and Westhaven actively made it harder for the classic to go Fullers using bullshit.
Grrrrr........
Get the reptile floating . The 25-35ft racing is really good right now , lots of old boats coming back with new owners and big $ owners going back to small boats . Good bang for buck and good people , you might need to shift the rig aft though seems to be the new thing .
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Post by Fogg on Sept 10, 2024 19:22:19 GMT 12
Received today from my insurer Pataenius:
“We understand that times have been tough financially and as such we have worked really hard to limit premium increases for our customers this year. We are happy to inform you that there has been no premium increase for your 2024 Renewal Policy.“
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Post by GO30 on Sept 11, 2024 10:22:58 GMT 12
Received today from my insurer Pataenius: “We understand that times have been tough financially and as such we have worked really hard to limit premium increases for our customers this year. We are happy to inform you that there has been no premium increase for your 2024 Renewal Policy.“ Woww, that's good to see....as long as the fine print doesn't include something like 'But we will now require your first born' In the last 2-3weeks I'm hearing a LOT of renewals are coming with 'due to age we now require a full survey'. Anyone had any thing along those lines? I had with one of mine, she is 111yo so not a surprise. Luckily the local dude knows her and knows she's probably more sound than a 2023 Rivertimo, so we managed to get around all that palava. But one may stay uninsured, as 2 of my bikes now are. Doing the numbers and what I'm not paying in premiums across my existence is quickly building in to a significant fund*, which can be used to cover costs should it be needed. It's surprising how things get tacked on at the time but then never get revisited so I'm on a full tidy up mission, I'm finding some good savings are to be had. * - the now not paid premiums go into a high interest account that is not easily accessible. It maybe used in vengeance or it maybe a wee bonus Kiwisaver like scheme, time will tell.
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Post by fish on Sept 11, 2024 11:25:49 GMT 12
In the last 2-3weeks I'm hearing a LOT of renewals are coming with 'due to age we now require a full survey'. Anyone had any thing along those lines? That wee letter last January is what started my wee ominyshambles. There wasn't anything fundamentally wrong with my boat, but it was like pulling on a string of a sweater. Everything has been unravelling from there. Probably the biggest concern was the utter vagueness of many of the survey requirements. Spent a lot of time trying to clarify with the insurer and got some of the most spectacularly contradictory responses. it was like an entire series of "Faulty Towers", with Basil Faulty played by Nautical Insurance. My insurance went up by $3. Got my renewal invoice and insurance certificate within minutes of submitting my survey documentation. Previously they'd take a couple of weeks. I got the impression they are hungry for customers. Not surprising considering how much they have deeply traumatized me. And I haven't even made a claim. I suspect the insurers have already put their prices up as far as the market can stomach, and are now doing their best to PR/ smoke & mirrors / sweat talk customers. If insurance is mandatory, many are going for third party only, which is now a thing, or if able, simply self-insuring. I self-insured my cars for a long time, it is way cheaper overall, provided you can afford the risk. If you can afford to replace something, or live without it, self insuring is way cheaper and a much less complicated option. I wouldn't self insure a house, I don't know many people that can afford to just replace a house, but a low value run-about car or a boat you'd struggle to sell and is waaaaaayyyyy over capitalised, there is a lot of logic.
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