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Post by GO30 on May 18, 2024 14:28:06 GMT 12
Solar pump that says it can do a 70m head, very impressive but the marketing may have been done by VW, we'll see.
To pump high using this 24V pump that has a 13mm outlet am I better to use a bigger or smaller pipe off that? Smooth bore alkathene will be used but bigger or smaller is the question.
Are there clacs/formulas for things like that and if so does anyone know where? |
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Post by Cantab on May 18, 2024 17:30:32 GMT 12
That's 100psi, quite a bit for a water pump.
Bigger pipe reduces pressure loss due to flow.
Pressure loss due to pipe and fittings becomes more of an issue as flow goes up.
There should be a chart for your pump to indicate what it can do depending on head. That will be the ideal flow in a perfect world.
Length of pipe, diameter and fittings all reduce that flow.
There are calculators but shorter and straighter is better.
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Post by fish on May 18, 2024 18:32:17 GMT 12
Solar pump that says it can do a 70m head, very impressive but the marketing may have been done by VW, we'll see.
To pump high using this 24V pump that has a 13mm outlet am I better to use a bigger or smaller pipe off that? Smooth bore alkathene will be used but bigger or smaller is the question.
Are there clacs/formulas for things like that and if so does anyone know where? Pick me, I know this stuff. 70m head is a lot for a single pump, it probably needs to be a positive displacement one, and would have a very low flow if it is 24v (small motor). Bigger pipe diameter gives lower head loss / less pressure for any given flowrate. There are formulas, but you need to understand all the inputs. I would use the Hazen Williams from Engineering toolbox, and vary the C value between maybe 140 and 120 (how clean / smooth the pipe is). C=120 is rougher than C=140. 140 is baby bum clean, but you will get slime growth over time hence C=120. If you want to do some serious assessment, PM me the details and I work it out. Would need the pump details (including flow curve), length of pipe, inside diameter and elevation changes (both up and down). www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html |
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Post by GO30 on May 19, 2024 9:28:07 GMT 12
Gezzz, that C Value stuff is hard work first thing Sunday  I shall try to get more accurate heights. It is a Shurflow 9300 which I have running off a 330W solar panel that plays in the 39V region. It continues to pump, all be it quite slowly, even right on sunset when the panel 90 degrees off what's left of the sun. That's pretty damn good. Current head is maybe 15m and the exit of the hose is 400m from the beginning.
It's an impressive bit of kit of if performs as it suggests. If I can get 200-300lts a day that would be plenty.
I shall take you up on borrowing your grey matter for a short time Mr Fish, I'll collect some numbers.
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Post by fish on May 19, 2024 10:56:53 GMT 12
Gezzz, that C Value stuff is hard work first thing Sunday I shall try to get more accurate heights. It is a Shurflow 9300 which I have running off a 330W solar panel that plays in the 39V region. It continues to pump, all be it quite slowly, even right on sunset when the panel 90 degrees off what's left of the sun. That's pretty damn good. Current head is maybe 15m and the exit of the hose is 400m from the beginning.
It's an impressive bit of kit of if performs as it suggests. If I can get 200-300lts a day that would be plenty.
I shall take you up on borrowing your grey matter for a short time Mr Fish, I'll collect some numbers.
What Council area are you in? All the Councils have online GIS maps that will give you contours to 1 m and an ability to measure distance (if you don't already know this). For your rural, you would just turn on the satellite view to identify features like your water trough or shed, find the layer for contours and turn it on and bob is your uncle. Here is the one for FNDC: fndc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3baf5c44f716429497077101518a2342NRC have one as well, but I couldn't find the contours tab so went for the FNDC one instead. The contours are from LIDDAR (planes flown taking photos and use this crazy thing with two sets of the same photo taken a known distance apart to create a 3D image to determine elevations). It is accurate enough, for farm land very accurate, less so under trees and around urban buildings. Would be about as accurate as your GPS for elevation, unless you have an aviation spec'ed one. Using Council GIS and some simple headloss equations like the Engineering Toolbox Hazen-Williams calculator, it is possible to design multi-million dollar pipelines over many kilometers, so should be sufficient for some solar water retic. |
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Post by GO30 on May 19, 2024 13:34:08 GMT 12
KDC and I know their GIS, on to it.
Google Earth can be OK as well.
I also noticed yesterday Mr Apples spy aircraft have been over head in the last 3-4 weeks. Google up satellite imaginary that shows things here in rural I can date it off. Also of note was the imagery was tagged to Apple not Google.
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Post by em on May 19, 2024 18:55:11 GMT 12
KDC and I know their GIS, on to it. Google Earth can be OK as well. I also noticed yesterday Mr Apples spy aircraft have been over head in the last 3-4 weeks. Google up satellite imaginary that shows things here in rural I can date it off. Also of note was the imagery was tagged to Apple not Google. What aircraft is that ? I’ve not seen or heard anything up here and I pride meself on plane spotting |
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Post by GO30 on May 20, 2024 7:55:43 GMT 12
KDC and I know their GIS, on to it. Google Earth can be OK as well. I also noticed yesterday Mr Apples spy aircraft have been over head in the last 3-4 weeks. Google up satellite imaginary that shows things here in rural I can date it off. Also of note was the imagery was tagged to Apple not Google. What aircraft is that ? I’ve not seen or heard anything up here and I pride meself on plane spotting I'd guess it could be one of the survey mobs but I suspect it's satellite.
Wasn't google it's DuckDuckGo that uses Apple imagery. In rural the view is only a few weeks old, I can date it by my excavator actions.Down in town still Apple but it's around 8-9moths old.
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Post by GO30 on May 20, 2024 8:02:59 GMT 12
That's 100psi, quite a bit for a water pump. Bigger pipe reduces pressure loss due to flow. Pressure loss due to pipe and fittings becomes more of an issue as flow goes up. There should be a chart for your pump to indicate what it can do depending on head. That will be the ideal flow in a perfect world. Length of pipe, diameter and fittings all reduce that flow. There are calculators but shorter and straighter is better. I saw something in the Specs about a 105-110psi internal by-pass. No idea what that means though. Has a 'Positive displacement 3 chamber diaphragm pump'
And remember it is the manufacturers Specs and like too many these days there maybe a tiny one line in the fine print 'Specs derived by testing on the moon'. A bit like the Ronstan stay adjusters that have stickers on them stating 'These are not intended for use as a load carrying device'.
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Post by fish on May 20, 2024 8:50:05 GMT 12
A positive displacement pump is the only type of pump that will do 70m odd head. 3 chamber sounds better than 2, if it meant 3 stage that would be very good. Diaphragm pumps will have low flow but are cheaper than other more sophisticated options and will work.
What is the motor size, as in watts and current draw? Just out of interest for me.
The flowrates you are after and the pump is talking about would indicate the dynamic head (pressure from flowing water) should be nearly negligible, so you are only really trying to overcome the static head. In which case it will either work or not when you first turn it on.
Bigger is still better for the pipe though, in this case. There are a whole lot of caveats where smaller can be better, but since you are pumping drinking water and not something with solids and biological matter I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole.
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Post by GO30 on May 21, 2024 7:52:16 GMT 12
Powered by a 330W solar panel. Powder easily considering how low light was, right on sunset 90 degrees to it's left, and it was still pushing a bit thru.
Good rain last night and maybe more this arvo. Keen as to see what the damns look like this evening. The main one was rising slowly due to the pump and the pine one being sucked hadn't dropped bugger all which is great.
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