|
|
Post by eri on Dec 18, 2021 6:24:42 GMT 12
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 10:53:28 GMT 12
Yip .. keep giving them fish..
The shame...
|
|
|
|
Post by Fogg on Dec 18, 2021 13:30:18 GMT 12
The word ‘equality’ on its own means nothing. Because I ask “equality of what?”
It depends on whether you mean equality of opportunity or outcome.
You can’t have both.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 15:57:16 GMT 12
The word ‘equality’ on its own means nothing. Because I ask “equality of what?” It depends on whether you mean equality of opportunity or outcome. You can’t have both. equality is like mum giving her 2 kids exactly the same size ice cream cone to be fair... Trouble is one kids obese and diabetic the other thin and healthy. |
|
|
|
Post by Fogg on Dec 18, 2021 17:19:24 GMT 12
The word ‘equality’ on its own means nothing. Because I ask “equality of what?” It depends on whether you mean equality of opportunity or outcome. You can’t have both. equality is like mum giving her 2 kids exactly the same size ice cream cone to be fair... Trouble is one kids obese and diabetic the other thin and healthy. So that’s equality of opportunity. They both get the same opportunity to enjoy an ice cream but what’s happens after that can vary. |
|
|
|
Post by Cantab on Dec 18, 2021 20:03:58 GMT 12
But not equality of opportunity to have an appropriate snack.
One size does not fit all, but one size is what you are going to get.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 22:03:27 GMT 12
equality is like mum giving her 2 kids exactly the same size ice cream cone to be fair... Trouble is one kids obese and diabetic the other thin and healthy. So that’s equality of opportunity. They both get the same opportunity to enjoy an ice cream but what’s happens after that can vary. It could be called socialist dictatorship... Mum forced ice cream on kids that wanted chippies. |
|
|
|
Post by grounded on Dec 19, 2021 5:57:58 GMT 12
I am not quite following you schooner. Are you saying everyone in NZ has exactly the same equality/opportunity? Because they don't.
Anyone that starts off with less is on the back foot from the get go. And when I say, "starts off" I mean as a little Kid have access to clothes, food and education.
Some of that is outside of Gvt ability to change, because it is Parental responsability. And trust me, there are many non Maori Families that are not giving their Kids a fair start in life. Some of it is purely economics. And all the Gvt can do is try and boost incomes to Families in some way. Both NAts and Labor seem to have a different view of how. If personaly prefer Nationals idea of lowering taxes. But in the end, both views have pluses and minises.
In my view ALL SCHOOLS should be equal in quality of education and resources. That creates a balanced playing field for all Kids for a start.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cantab on Dec 19, 2021 10:58:54 GMT 12
Schools attempt at equal opportunity has turned into a push for equality of outcomes.
The struggling kids get all the resources, the genius kids don't get stimulated to achieve their best.
The school gets a tick because they stop the dummies making their results look bad. Society gets mediocracy. The incentives to schools do not encourage excellence.
Equal opportunity should be about opportunity to achieve your best, not about flattening the range of outcomes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fogg on Dec 19, 2021 11:22:22 GMT 12
A combination of good schools and mature social welfare system has the potential to create conditions approaching equal opportunity for otherwise deprived kids. But being realistic / pragmatic it’s never going to create perfect equality of opportunity for everyone all of the time.
Clearly there are many examples of ‘poor kids made good’ despite a very difficult start in life but the stars need to align sustainably on many things to help them elevate themselves out of poverty. And it can take just one significant setback eg a jailed parent or a bad social interaction to upset the whole thing again.
And so a bit of luck is involved.
Which is actually true for everyone including those who get the best start in life. In fact luck is often overlooked as one of the most important factors that differentiates success from failure - being in the right place at the right time with the right idea and connections has created many a millionaire / billionaire that would otherwise never have happened.
In this regard, the concept of meritocracy is highly flawed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2021 11:57:35 GMT 12
I am not quite following you schooner. Are you saying everyone in NZ has exactly the same equality/opportunity? Because they don't. Anyone that starts off with less is on the back foot from the get go. And when I say, "starts off" I mean as a little Kid have access to clothes, food and education. Some of that is outside of Gvt ability to change, because it is Parental responsability. And trust me, there are many non Maori Families that are not giving their Kids a fair start in life. Some of it is purely economics. And all the Gvt can do is try and boost incomes to Families in some way. Both NAts and Labor seem to have a different view of how. If personaly prefer Nationals idea of lowering taxes. But in the end, both views have pluses and minises. In my view ALL SCHOOLS should be equal in quality of education and resources. That creates a balanced playing field for all Kids for a start. G what's going down brother... You're way of course and heading for the rocks.. .what I mean is socialist governments do not see humans as individuals and give them what they want based on their needs ( racially or whatever. .), but give them what they think they need based on some report written by a so called expert or by their own political attitude) ideals. Take the 1 billion spent PA on school lunches.. That money is feeding the rich kids who don't need it. It is also, by feeding the rich kids, taking away from the poor kids. A better solution would be to take that money and identify the poor families and teach them and fund them to feed themselves and then break their reliance/cycle on government.. That's a more eloquent long term solution. Why feed kids that have rich/capable parents who can feed them. See, Arderns solutions are like Communist Russia is like.... One size fits all. Same applies to the benefits. But... hospital care, policing, incarceration, should be based on " we are all equal in the system!".. not a priority given based in race |
|
|
|
Post by GO30 on Dec 19, 2021 12:20:31 GMT 12
And so a bit of luck is involved. Which is actually true for everyone including those who get the best start in life. In fact luck is often overlooked as one of the most important factors that differentiates success from failure - being in the right place at the right time with the right idea and connections has created many a millionaire / billionaire that would otherwise never have happened. Oh so very very true.
Another real big one is risk and the ability to take it on, then handle it. Many are risk adverse for assorted reasons, some reasons very sound some maybe not so, and that prevents them from seeing opportunities.
|
|
