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Post by Cantab on Sept 15, 2024 17:07:30 GMT 12
I apologise Duckmaster, you do seem aware of the relevant issues. I agree with your stand as far as it goes, I saw another issue, my take was that WS and hence YNZ might not really be able to claim ownership of the rules, basically something to do with the sources of them originally and they way they have developed, I'm no lawyer but I thought some of the arguments were pretty well made. There is also the issue of them claiming to have domain over all yacht racing world wide, and the requirements for affiliated sailors to only race under RRS and similar reach that may not be legally enforceable. Standover tactics are pretty effective though, we all live under US law. Just to clarify HT's (incorrect) statement, in addition to what DM points out, the "COLREGS" do not apply at night between racers automatically, only if the SI say so. I was trying to draw attention to this, very practical set of rules that can be invoked and still be under RRS. www.sailing.org/tools/documents/AppendixRVReducedVisibilityRacingRulesJanuary2021-[27331].pdf
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Post by harrytom on Sept 15, 2024 17:08:12 GMT 12
So if 30 boats are going down the harbour and one of those boats is not in the race then all boats have to obey COLREGS for that boat. Correct,but any decent sailor would give way to those racing and make their intentions that they are giving race yachts room,Well I have done and do
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Post by harrytom on Sept 15, 2024 17:15:46 GMT 12
GENERAL SAILING INSTRUCTIONS - 2023 Ponsonby Cruising Club www.pcc.org.nz › sailing-1 › 2023-24-general-s... 1.3 From sunset until dawn the relevant parts of Part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing will cease to apply and the International Regulations for the Prevention ... I would suggest a majority of clubs apply this
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Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 17:32:09 GMT 12
I apologise Duckmaster, you do seem aware of the relevant issues. I agree with your stand as far as it goes, I saw another issue, my take was that WS and hence YNZ might not really be able to claim ownership of the rules, basically something to do with the sources of them originally and they way they have developed, I'm no lawyer but I thought some of the arguments were pretty well made. There is also the issue of them claiming to have domain over all yacht racing world wide, and the requirements for affiliated sailors to only race under RRS and similar reach that may not be legally enforceable. Standover tactics are pretty effective though, we all live under US law. Just to clarify HT's (incorrect) statement, in addition to what DM points out, the "COLREGS" do not apply at night between racers automatically, only if the SI say so. I was trying to draw attention to this, very practical set of rules that can be invoked and still be under RRS. www.sailing.org/tools/documents/AppendixRVReducedVisibilityRacingRulesJanuary2021-[27331].pdfThank you. I am not up on the bit about WS posibly not owning them cause they didn't originate them - that would be very interesting to see play out - but I think it's a bit like private parking tickets, WS set the price at the sweetspot so that the cost of litigation just doesn't make financial sense. Yeah I agree about the exclusion tactics - on the surface it seems very monopolistic and just wrong.
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Post by ComfortZone on Sept 15, 2024 17:38:55 GMT 12
Yes COLREGs override RRS at all times except when all boats concerned are racing under a YNZ RRS race, this is legislated. You sure about the "legislated" part? Don't see anything in Section 22 or exemptions, that mentions YNZ race rules create an exception? This report makes specific mention that racing yachts still have an over arching obligation to comply with the Colregs
By the way you previously mention about the RRS being copyright. Whilst YNZ claim copyright to their Racing and Safety rules it is a moot point as to whether these documents actually qualify as pieces of "Literary Work" under the Copyright Act. Interesting legal question
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Post by Cantab on Sept 15, 2024 17:45:31 GMT 12
"(4) Nothing in this Part applies to a vessel participating in a race or training or coaching in relation to other vessels participating in such an activity, if the participants have agreed to comply with the International Sailing Federation Rules, prescribed by the International Sailing Federation. " www.maritimenz.govt.nz/media/vu5bafi0/part22-maritime-rule.pdf
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Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 18:24:41 GMT 12
"(4) Nothing in this Part applies to a vessel participating in a race or training or coaching in relation to other vessels participating in such an activity, if the participants have agreed to comply with the International Sailing Federation Rules, prescribed by the International Sailing Federation. " www.maritimenz.govt.nz/media/vu5bafi0/part22-maritime-rule.pdfOh it's the 5knot speed limit rule where YNZ is directly referenced: (5) Rule 91.6(1)(a) shall not apply to: (b) a vessel powered by sail in relation to any other vessel powered by sail, while the vessels are participating in a yacht race or training administered by— (i) a club affiliated to Yachting New Zealand; or
(ii) a non profit organisation involved in sail training or racing; or 91.6 Speed of vessels (1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, propel or navigate a vessel (including a vessel towing a person or an object) at a proper speed exceeding 5 knots: (a) within 50 metres of any other vessel, raft, or person in the water; or Interestingly the exemption only applies to the 50m rule - not the 200m rule - everytime we zoom down the Westhaven wall at over 5knots, we're all breaking the law ;-) www.maritimenz.govt.nz/media/rhwkcqt1/part91-maritime-rule.pdf
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Post by El Toro on Sept 18, 2024 8:09:53 GMT 12
Hi have updated the PDF to include the Waitemata Woody classic boat parade on Saturday
Cheers
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