|
|
Post by El Toro on Sept 14, 2024 16:36:42 GMT 12
Hi all, hope this is ok to add. PCC and KBC are having a fun family friendly event over Labour Weekend. This event is not designed to compete with The Coastal Classic, but is for those who would like to do something over the long weekend who will not be racing up to the Duke. Or, if you are coming back down the coast pop on in. Please see attached. Cheers Tom KBC Club Secretary LABOUR WEEKEND SPRING SPLASH.pdf (1.84 MB) |
|
|
|
Post by fish on Sept 14, 2024 18:19:13 GMT 12
How to say, "leave the testosterone at home",
These races will be held under the international regulations for
preventing collisions at sea 1972. This is a friendly family orientated event, boat on boat
contact must be avoided at all costs, no protests will be heard.
|
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Sept 14, 2024 20:02:33 GMT 12
How to say, "leave the testosterone at home", These races will be held under the international regulations for preventing collisions at sea 1972. This is a friendly family orientated event, boat on boat contact must be avoided at all costs, no protests will be heard. Along with not going more than 5knots within 50m of another vessel. I love these races - everyone just breaks the law - haha |
|
|
|
Post by harrytom on Sept 14, 2024 20:06:10 GMT 12
How to say, "leave the testosterone at home", These races will be held under the international regulations for preventing collisions at sea 1972. This is a friendly family orientated event, boat on boat contact must be avoided at all costs, no protests will be heard. Use to do thursday rum races at pybc,social racing was it was suppose to be,nerxt minute being told to get out of fn way,take the slug home etc soon gave up. Run properly can be a good event. Friendly family racing without the hot shots,hope its a success. Remember when first started sailing "P class" lake pupuke. There were the also rans I competed with,then you had the radio controlled,mum dickson on one side of the lake and old man dickson on the other screaming at the dickson boys,do this do that,think thats when 2 younger brothers left it to chris. |
|
|
|
Post by chariot on Sept 15, 2024 9:50:15 GMT 12
Have raced against Roy and he was a true gentleman.
|
|
|
|
Post by fish on Sept 15, 2024 10:33:07 GMT 12
I am actually very excited about this event. Not because it sounds like a cool event based at the KBC, but because it is not being run under YNZ's Racing Rules of Sailing.
Many boating clubs complain bitterly about the levies they need to pay to YNZ, the only benefit is that the small proportion of club members that race can do so using the RRS. So if it becomes established you can successfully run a racing event without the RRS and using the Colregs instead, many clubs can finally give YNZ the heave-ho.
An additional aspect is a safety catagory is not required, so it is entirely up to the skipper to have a safe and seaworthy vessel. No more ball-ache complying with archaic YNZ safety category requirements. It will be interesting to see what I would expect to be a positive uplift in participation if you don't need to check your flares are in date, you have 4 regulation buckets instead of 3, or if your cockpit drains have a square area of exactly 1,342.49751 millimeters squared.
Foot note on the safety regulations, I understand there are concerns about the level of Coastal Classic entries at the moment, and a key issue raised is how to navigate the new MNZ Cat 3 inspection, and the availability of inspectors, a reasonable proportion have given up in frustration.
I'll bet a good bottle of whisky Lord Commander David Abercrombie will be do his best to fuck this up...
Perhaps it is time for a bit of a revolution in sailing, and revert to the old ways of racing what you brung, with the simplest rules possible and the least barriers to participation by getting rid of all the twaddlebollocks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fogg on Sept 15, 2024 10:34:57 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by Cantab on Sept 15, 2024 11:29:35 GMT 12
There are extensive discussion about the use of rrs outside of sanctioned events,and the use of COLREGS, particularly wrt. Australia on Sailing Anarchy .
Legal opinion suggests that ynz or anyone else would struggle to defend a claim of sole use rights of the RRS. litigation usually only benefits lawyers though.
If you think ynz is alienating sailors, they got nothing on Australian Sailing, unfortunately Dave occasionally comes up with brilliant ideas that seem to closely follow Australias lead.
Colregs are not particularly good for holding races but if you are not using RRS, these are legally required to be followed in full.
The addendum to the RRS covering restricted visibility rules provide a very good set of rules that could be used to calm down this sort of racing, I imagine they could be invoked with an appropriate NOR / SI. They would be a sensible addition to a lot of club racing.
|
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 13:29:38 GMT 12
There are extensive discussion about the use of rrs outside of sanctioned events,and the use of COLREGS, particularly wrt. Australia on Sailing Anarchy . Legal opinion suggests that ynz or anyone else would struggle to defend a claim of sole use rights of the RRS. litigation usually only benefits lawyers though. If you think ynz is alienating sailors, they got nothing on Australian Sailing, unfortunately Dave occasionally comes up with brilliant ideas that seem to closely follow Australias lead. Colregs are not particularly good for holding races but if you are not using RRS, these are legally required to be followed in full. The addendum to the RRS covering restricted visibility rules provide a very good set of rules that could be used to calm down this sort of racing, I imagine they could be invoked with an appropriate NOR / SI. They would be a sensible addition to a lot of club racing. RRS is copy righted - the rules are literally owned by world sailing. The legal opinion you reference is wrong. YNZ or any other World Sailing affiliate would absolutely win any case in any country where copyright can be enforced and they would have the full force of World Sailing $$'s behind them supporting and protecting it - and they would win full costs so it would cost them nothing. Don't know about Australia, but in NZ you can't do more than 5knots within 200m of the shore or 50m of another boat so that kind of kills the idea of racing under colregs... not to mention mark roundings are going to be an absolute cluster fuck :-) :-) There's nothing stopping a club coming up with it's own set of racing rules except clubs are inherently lazy and what members would want to spend time doing such when really there is a perfectly good set of rules that costs $50/year to use per member? Not to mention in NZ you would also need to get our awesome government to update the maritime legislation that allow YNZ to hold races that will be much more of a challenge for the lazy club members who just aren't geared up for dealing with navigating getting the govt to change legislation. Clubs just need to decide if they want to be racing clubs or they want to be social clubs - the decision is really simple. It takes absolutely nothing for a club to spin up a racing club edition and social club edition - oh except we're back to the lazy thing - look at SSANZ cheapest NZ affiliated club - completely virtual - uses other clubs facilities when it needs to. Oh, also you'd be fucked on the insurance front if you have a race under colregs and something happens and the insurance company can show you were racing. People inherently push there boat harder when racing than they do when going for a cruise. |
|
|
|
Post by Cantab on Sept 15, 2024 15:00:03 GMT 12
I know dam well you haven't had time to read up the references I have made, I take your opinion on board, but won't be changing mine just yet.
World sailings claim of copyright is of very dubious validity.
|
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 15:28:10 GMT 12
I know dam well you haven't had time to read up the references I have made, I take your opinion on board, but won't be changing mine just yet. World sailings claim of copyright is of very dubious validity. I believe I have read the Sailing Anarchy forums you referred to. Are there other references? (you didn't link any?) I undertsand the theory on Sailing Anarchy that copyright applies to copying and distribution of the RRS and supposedly not to the use of it. The problem with this theory is that it isn't grounded in reality. Clubs are making a commerical gain from using the RRS (think entry fees), it doesn't matter if you can prove that the club runs at a loss, if the club even charges membership fees and uses the RRS for it's members then the club is using something that World Sailing own, for it's financial gain thus it becomes a issue of licensing a copyrighted material. Apart from punishing individuals with bans or exclusions, there's absolutely nothing that World Sailing or YNZ could do if a group of private individuals got together and decided to use RRS with no money changing hands - and this is the crux of what the sailing anarchy forum is getting at - but as soon as money changes hands it's a very different scenario. World Sailing absolutely owns the RRS and the copyright, surely you aren't claiming that that claim is of dubious validity? |
|
|
|
Post by El Toro on Sept 15, 2024 15:50:24 GMT 12
Thanks, I had no idea how to do that |
|
|
|
Post by harrytom on Sept 15, 2024 15:55:23 GMT 12
Its classed as a social racing event.Most insurance companies allow for such racing as its "social racing" not suppose to full on hard out racing.Hence why Saturday/Sunday have "no extras "clause. Seeimg how Friday is basically make your way up at your time and motoring permitted.
Collision regs over rule any sailng instruction or rrs. And if racing(not in this case) Sunset to sunrise collision rules must be obeyed.
All purely my understanding of social racing or racing at night.
|
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 15:55:45 GMT 12
I'll bet a good bottle of whisky Lord Commander David Abercrombie will be do his best to fuck this up... Can't see why. Neither club is charging anything. Neither club is using the RRS without a license. It's very clear it's COLREGS. PCC might be in a grey area as an affiliated YNZ member... but I have no idea if that's factual or just my imagination. |
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Sept 15, 2024 16:03:25 GMT 12
Its classed as a social racing event.Most insurance companies allow for such racing as its "social racing" not suppose to full on hard out racing.Hence why Saturday/Sunday have "no extras "clause. Seeimg how Friday is basically make your way up at your time and motoring permitted. Collision regs over rule any sailng instruction or rrs. And if racing(not in this case) Sunset to sunrise collision rules must be obeyed. All purely my understanding of social racing or racing at night. When you actually dig into the social racing clause, which I did when renewing my insurance, you will discover that it has to be an actual organised race under YNZ. You are correct about the no extras bit. The insurance compaines define "social racing" as no extras but still a YNZ organised race. Yes COLREGs override RRS at all times except when all boats concerned are racing under a YNZ RRS race, this is legislated. So if 30 boats are going down the harbour and one of those boats is not in the race then all boats have to obey COLREGS for that boat. |
|
