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Standards
Oct 18, 2024 15:36:52 GMT 12
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jim likes this
Post by Fogg on Oct 18, 2024 15:36:52 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Oct 18, 2024 15:56:13 GMT 12
I just read that story myself. From the information presented, Bayly should be sacked. And, based on the information presented, I would have expected someone in the group to intervene. I certainly would not have been comfortable standing watching someone being treated like that. Besides, it will help keep ever other govt MP on their tows if Luxon sacks someone every now and then, even if they don't need to be sacked. Just to keep some discipline in the ranks. You let this one slide and before you know it, you are the leader of the Green Party. We had a saying way back when I used to work in the killing cows and cutting them up industry, "Acceptance is Approval". If you don't deal with it, it is seen as approval of the behaviour. PS, I think you need to check your spelling standards in the thread title. |
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Post by jim on Oct 18, 2024 15:57:14 GMT 12
it should be from Luxon "are these allegations true?" . if Bayly answers with any hint of yes then sacked on the spot, a friday night would be perfectly acceptable timing ...
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Post by GO30 on Oct 18, 2024 17:16:06 GMT 12
because I see no motivation to invent something as strange as this In todays world you see no motivation, really? I see todays world having so much more potential for political muck raking and other crap like that than ever before.
But all I've seen is that Herald article and as it is so short on facts and key elements I have no idea if the complainer is justified or not.
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Standards
Oct 18, 2024 17:40:35 GMT 12
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Post by Fogg on Oct 18, 2024 17:40:35 GMT 12
Well don’t forget there was a crowd of by-standers (who did nothing to intervene which is a whole other issue) who witnessed the whole thing and nobody has disputed the victim’s story.
That’s my primary reason for believing it’s true.
The secondary reason is to ask what motivation would an anonymous warehouse worker in the back-of-beyond have to fabricate such a claim? All he’s asking for is an apology and recognition he was humiliated.
It’s not like he’s gonna score a few mil in compensation or something.
Hence on balance I believe the victim’s account.
The Minister hasn’t even denied it - just apologised (weakly).
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Post by fish on Oct 18, 2024 17:47:18 GMT 12
because I see no motivation to invent something as strange as this In todays world you see no motivation, really? I see todays world having so much more potential for political muck raking and other crap like that than ever before.
But all I've seen is that Herald article and as it is so short on facts and key elements I have no idea if the complainer is justified or not.
The complaint letter and Bayly's response are on the RNZ story. It is hard to tell context in a letter, but I'm struggling to think of a situation where the context would make it acceptable. Was listening to RNZ when Lisa Owen interviewed Bayly, man she got stuck in, he sounded like his voice was wavering. He flatly refused to say when the PM was informed. He did say a categorical 'no' to any other instances of a similar nature. Que every journo in the country going digging now. When that Greens twit, Jenter, got stuck into someone and it came out in the media, a couple more popped up over the next few days. I'll bet a good bottle of whiskey the same will happen with Bayly. This was dumped on a Friday arvo, which is when bad news is dumped so it is out of the news cycle come Monday. If this pops up in the news cycle with a fresh allegation next week, it will be interesting how Luxon plays it. I still reckon Luxon should sack him, just to keep every other govt MP on their toes if anything. www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/531215/national-minister-andrew-bayly-apologises-for-telling-person-to-f-off |
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Post by fish on Oct 18, 2024 17:51:16 GMT 12
Well don’t forget there was a crowd of by-standers (who did nothing to intervene which is a whole other issue) who witnessed the whole thing and nobody has disputed the victim’s story. That’s my primary reason for believing it’s true. The secondary reason is to ask what motivation would an anonymous warehouse worker in the back-of-beyond have to fabricate such a claim? All he’s asking for is an apology and recognition he was humiliated. It’s not like he’s gonna score a few mil in compensation or something. Hence on balance I believe the victim’s account. The Minister hasn’t even denied it - just apologised (weakly). There are plenty of examples of politically motivated complainants, but in each case the Politician was in the wrong. The motivation only comes to going public with it. Turns out the pony tail waiter John Key was infatuated with was a Greenie I think, although by the time that came out the whole dirty politics PR machine was going hard to nail her. They certainly did their best to make it sound like she was politically motivated, although in reality she probably just didn't like men in authority touching her without asking. Funny that. |
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Post by GO30 on Oct 19, 2024 7:16:48 GMT 12
No idea what you are reading into it or why but based on the 2 links provided, which say exactly the same thing, we have
An unknown person with possible unknown motivations saying one thing.
Media reporting it and a media who loves gottyas
A minister making a less than spectacular response but appears to not shirk from it, quite the opposite.
Known people who saw it and in todays world the media would be onto them faster than a TPM MP into a trough. Yet no comments reported either way.
All I see says it could just as easily be a case of 'Dickhead Minister' as it could be a case of 'political skull duggery' as it could be a case of 'someone just having a very shit day and taking things wrongly', we've all done it.
Rather than hang someone based on very limited unclear media reports lets put the noose down for a minute, if more real facts come out over the next few days which is quite possible, the noose will still work.
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Post by chariot on Oct 19, 2024 12:04:02 GMT 12
I read somewhere years ago that Keith Holyoak used to get all his cabinet ministers to sign an undated resignation letter at the beginning of their term. Not a bad idea. Don't know if you would get away with it now.
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 22, 2024 8:37:14 GMT 12
Rather than hang someone based on very limited unclear media reports lets put the noose down for a minute, if more real facts come out over the next few days which is quite possible, the noose will still work. This sounds like it has been blown entirely out of proportion closes It seems clear to me reading this, that Bayly was trying to be funny, and was ribbing the staff member for being the only one still at work. I’ve heard from a number of people that they have seen Bayly try similar humour on other occasions. You often see this misjudged humour with people who have low EQ or are even slightly on the spectrum.
Now this doesn’t make what he did, acceptable. That sort of joshing humour should only be done with people you know, who are friends. In my weekly board gaming group, we often chant “loser” and hold up Ls to each other when someone loses. But that is between good friends, who know it is done with no ill intent. Trying to do that with a stranger is a very bad idea, as they could well interpret it in the way this complainant did.
And doing so a Minister of the Crown, is even more ill-advised. The fault does lie with Bayly, not with the complainant.
However Bayly did twice apologise to the complainant, once he was aware he had offended him. And despite receiving two apologies, the complainant decided to send a complaint letter to the leaders of Labour, TPM and the Greens, as well as the PM. Now he is entitled to do what he wants, but it does raise the question of exactly what he wants to achieve, having already had two apologies.
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Standards
Oct 22, 2024 14:22:43 GMT 12
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fish likes this
Post by Fogg on Oct 22, 2024 14:22:43 GMT 12
Someone with such poor people skills & judgement should not be a Minister.
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Post by GO30 on Oct 22, 2024 15:27:34 GMT 12
Been watching this and to date all I see is 2 dickheads. One failing to remember it's 2024 and another trying a political got-ya. Someone with such poor people skills & judgement should not be a Minister. Judging by the last few Governments I though having shit judgement was now a prerequisite for being a Minister.
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