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Post by grounded on Jan 10, 2022 6:39:34 GMT 12
Yes the Ocean, or the life in the Ocean does absorb Co2. Phytoplankton mainly, is what absorbs a great deal. The Water it'self also absorbs Co2, just like it does Oxygen, however, as the water temp increases, the Co2 in the water is reduced. Also understand that some of that Disolved Co2 becomes Carbonic Acid. This causes the Ph level of the Ocean to drop. I will not say cause Ocean acidification, because you cannot make the Ocean more "Acidic" which I get really annoyed with everyone say the Ocean is becoming more Acidic. The proper term is that the pH level is reducing. Natural Sea water pH needs to be slightly above nutral. Think of the Sea as the same as maintaining a Swimming Pool at a correct pH level. For those that have done this, it is stupid complex. You need the pH to be between 7.2 to 7.4. The Chlorine needs to be protected from Sunlight by an Acidic stabalizer. But you also need a higher than nutral pH level to enable "Free" Calcium to be in the water. On a tester, you will see 3 or 4 different things get measured. It ends up being a complex chemistry lab.
One issue is that Scientist don't actually have a good grasp on how it really all works in the Ocean yet. It is an even more complex chemistry lab. One thing is for sure, Science knows we have a problem. But it doesn't really have the full knowledge of how to fix the problem yet and to make it even more complex, different Scientists have differeing views of what needs to be done. Everything considered is really little more than Bandaids thus far.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 6:41:08 GMT 12
Carbon credits, recycling, non use of fossil fuels the list goes on and on.
For over 100 yrs now Indian coal mines spewing all sorts in to the atmosphere and cannot be put out .China has same issues.
Hydro is not the answer nor wind power.Solar maybe in the idividual home. Nuclear the way I set it maybe the greener way of production but then comes a waste issue,where to dump it?? Just maybe we need to cut worlds population??
What you and I do as individuals is a grain of sand in the scheme of things.
Huntly power station coal burning and why is it built there??coal fields but the last coal mine has been closed down so we now need to import more coal for Huntly and Glenbrooke steel mill.
Yes there are plans to close Glenbrooke but all we would be doing is shifting the problem from NZ to overseas then adding further carbon by importing steel.At the moment we are importing aprox 3 million tonnes coal just for huntly.
Rotowaro Opencast Mine, which supplies Glenbrooke coal may be set to close soon,more importation. Funny how our mines are owned by Bathurst resources ltd.Which Talleys invested in.Food production/fisheries now coal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 6:44:44 GMT 12
When I say a trillion trees I'm talking the world not NZ.... And make the unemployed do it and pay them a high wage to be get them off their arses and getting work ethic.
EV cars are not the solution. To convert just 20% of the worlds fleet requires....
Digging massive holes in the ground in areas where only huge amounts of cobalt, zirconium, and lithium.. are found. Then there is the air and land pollution these sites create but you do get fuel tankers and trucks of the seas and roads.
Them there is the battery dumping issues.
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Post by Fogg on Jan 10, 2022 8:06:42 GMT 12
I think a lot of the commercial activity we are seeing in the EV / HV / Solar space is not a climate-driven shift but an economic one ie as fossil fuel supplies diminish their price will skyrocket meaning their use will become unviable well before they actually run out.
But the ‘environmental’ association is a convenient marketing label.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jan 13, 2022 20:24:12 GMT 12
if anyone thinks EV's means cheap motoring long term, forget it. Governments see motorists as a soft touch and EV's are already seeing their honey moon period of road tax exemptions coming to an end in some countries, and then there is the electricity supply issue. UK is "leading" the way soon requiring Car chargers be on a separate electronic meter which will be charged differing tariffs with controls on power availability www.cfact.org/2022/01/10/evs-destined-to-pay-for-upgrading-electrical-grids/ |
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Post by grounded on Jan 14, 2022 6:24:34 GMT 12
Except Oil isn't running out. That tired excuse is made over and over again, much like Al Gore claiming the end is happening Thursday, only for the Sun to still rise again Friday. How many times do we have to hear the likes of him making those silly comments.
The Oil fields that were supposed to have run out 20yrs ago have been found to have another 50yrs (not an accurate statement) of reserve perhaps. And new fields are being discovered. Oil is still the cheapest form of Energy, because it packs so much punch per litre and it comes out of the ground in vast quantity.
The other issue the Greens have to get to grips with, is that Oil is not only for Energy. Nearly every aspect of our modern day life revolves around Oil in some way. From Chemicals to maunfacture, to Medicens, to Clothing an Synthetics, and what about the Tyres on those EV's. We need Oil. We cannot just shut down the Oil industry. And unless Oil comes out of the ground in vast quantities, the price will skyrocket and thus so will every thing else in the World we reply on. Some will say that could be a good thing. But in reality, it will send the world back toward the times of the Dark ages and we will continue to have the age old issue of the Rich will benifit and the Poor will struggle even more.
As for the shift to EV's, it is now being market driven. Car makers want to be "seen" as Green. And they think the EV is where the future is going to head. Plus the cost of manufacture is actually less for an EV than a Combustion engine Vehicle. They no longer have to pour huge money into trying to develop more efficiency and meet environmental targets for emmisions. The combustion engine still remains the most expensive component of a Vehicle. Now that many Car brands are made by what is essentially and very small group of overall manufacturers, we are seeing many more brands on what is essentually the same rolling body. Ford Ranger and Mazda BT50 for example. So manufacturing costs are reduced because they can make a greater number of essentially the same vehicle with the same investement in tooling.
EV's big issue right at the mo is purely Battery cost. Once new lower costs are achieved in Batteries, costs of Vehicles will come down.
One plus right now, is the new EV Market allows opportunity of new players. New brands are going to cause compitition and thus prices lowering. Just at the mo, only a few have EV's to market and thus the price can be kept high.
Eventually, EV's will be the way of the Future. I am not sure I like it, but we have to get used to the fact it is going to happen.
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Post by grounded on Jan 14, 2022 6:38:52 GMT 12
By the way, there is a huge Drilling Platform out in Admiralty Bay at the mo. They are taking it up to the Maui Field. It is a new technology rig that is supposed to be more efficient in getting Gas from the Field, which the older rigs now struggle to do apparently.
Anyway, the Greenies are out there trying to oppose it and stop it from being moved. Lady Liz is constantly patrolling the area trying to keep protestors away from it.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jan 14, 2022 7:12:55 GMT 12
By the way, there is a huge Drilling Platform out in Admiralty Bay at the mo. They are taking it up to the Maui Field. It is a new technology rig that is supposed to be more efficient in getting Gas from the Field, which the older rigs now struggle to do apparently. Anyway, the Greenies are out there trying to oppose it and stop it from being moved. Lady Liz is constantly patrolling the area trying to keep protestors away from it. It may well be here to address the issues reported here www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/431939/problems-at-offshore-fields-lead-to-reduced-natural-gas-productionI had read somewhere with all the COVID issues that there were a lot of problems getting a suitable rig to NZ |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jan 14, 2022 7:32:26 GMT 12
As for the shift to EV's, it is now being market driven. No it is being driven by cost of compliance with new emission standards, EURO 7 for the EU and whatever California calls the latest CARB standard. It's interesting looking at the 3 German Manufactrurers - VAG (who of course were caught with their pants down on diesel gate) and Mercedes have decided to focus solely on EV development, whereas BMW are having a $ each way, developing EV's but also continuing ICE development, I think reading the tea leaves correctly re the electricity supply issues Ford Ranger and Mazda BT50 for example.
Mazda have changed camps, the new BT50 is built on the Isuzu DMAX platform EV's big issue right at the mo is purely Battery cost. Once new lower costs are achieved in Batteries, costs of Vehicles will come down.
I cannot see a major reduction in battery costs unless there is step change in battery technology, efficiencies from increased volumes will only account for a few % points. Costs are a function of inputs, ie labour and materials, and certainly on the materials side these costs can only increase as demand increases against a material supply chain that is not growing as rapidly. It takes about 10 years to bring a new mine on line from first discovery of what looks to be a viable deposit. This is compounded by increased mining costs on a per unit basis as most new mines are of a lower grade deposit. There are copper mines being looked at now that would not have been considered economically viable 10 yrs ago. On the Lithium side, apart from hard rock "spodumene" deposits, most Lithium is derived from salts which typically occur in very dry areas, so there is a whole issue of water resources required for extraction. When I was working in Chile I was involved in the construction of a large RO plant to provide water for Escondida, worlds largest copper mine. There was all the energy required to produce the water, then further energy to pump it to the mine at EL 3,000m. This energy has to come form somewhere. |
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Post by Cantab on Jan 14, 2022 8:28:24 GMT 12
I keep getting the feeling that switching to "clean green" solar, electric, lithium, wind, ethanol ... seems to involve more extraction of scarce resources and environmental destruction than basic Oil / Coal ever did. How can it possibly be sustainable?
The mining and processing of the materials needed to serve technology and electricity production, distribution and storage is staggering and growing faster than any so called dirty industry ever did. The long term pollution of water and land from mining and processing new desirable materials seems far more destructive than coal or oil ever was.
The technology change seems to be more of a diversion than a solution.
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Post by GO30 on Jan 14, 2022 8:37:26 GMT 12
I think a lot of the commercial activity we are seeing in the EV / HV / Solar space is not a climate-driven shift but an economic one ie as fossil fuel supplies diminish their price will skyrocket meaning their use will become unviable well before they actually run out. But the ‘environmental’ association is a convenient marketing label. I concur.
We're 100% solar up north but it wasn't so much due to wanting to make Chloe or Greta happy it was mostly due to getting a grid connected line in would cost over 100K, the closest one is about 2km away and have to come in thru dense bush. There was a strong self reliance angle to the decision as well. We are setting the place up to be self sufficient in electricity and water, it is in water now but I'm increasing the amount stored on site by around 15 million litres. Food wise it's close now even if the diet would be a little limited at the moment, if you can live on slow smoked BBQ wild Pork, Bunny or Turkey, Pheasant, Duck and Quail and like Blackberries then you'd be fine.
It's far cheaper to do it this way that do it the 'traditional' way anyway. But as we are doing that we can claim to all manner of Eco wank titles and handouts they come with these days, which are numerous and some very generous even if many are distorting the crap out of things including the stated end desires of the Govts and other environmentals.
The Wa is currently organising a rammed earth house to be built on site, hopefully using timber grown, milled and treated 100% on site.
Fuck, I think I'm turning into a hippy...... I better go buy a house bus, hair ties and more Zig Zags 
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Post by GO30 on Jan 14, 2022 8:40:45 GMT 12
I keep getting the feeling that switching to "clean green" solar, electric, lithium, wind, ethanol ... seems to involve more extraction of scarce resources and environmental destruction than basic Oil / Coal ever did. How can it possibly be sustainable? The mining and processing of the materials needed to serve technology and electricity production, distribution and storage is staggering and growing faster than any so called dirty industry ever did. The long term pollution of water and land from mining and processing new desirable materials seems far more destructive than coal or oil ever was. The technology change seems to be more of a diversion than a solution. Correct. Go suss all solar panel manufacturing plants and what will you find? They all use a shit load of coal. One reason is to power the plant in the first place. The second and main reason is they need very clean silicon and the best way to 'scrub' the dirty silicon molecules is by using carbon molecules. After much trailing and sussing the fastest, cheapest, easiest source of carbon molecules is coal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2022 9:44:34 GMT 12
I think a lot of the commercial activity we are seeing in the EV / HV / Solar space is not a climate-driven shift but an economic one ie as fossil fuel supplies diminish their price will skyrocket meaning their use will become unviable well before they actually run out. But the ‘environmental’ association is a convenient marketing label. I concur.
We're 100% solar up north but it wasn't so much due to wanting to make Chloe or Greta happy it was mostly due to getting a grid connected line in would cost over 100K, the closest one is about 2km away and have to come in thru dense bush. There was a strong self reliance angle to the decision as well. We are setting the place up to be self sufficient in electricity and water, it is in water now but I'm increasing the amount stored on site by around 15 million litres. Food wise it's close now even if the diet would be a little limited at the moment, if you can live on slow smoked BBQ wild Pork, Bunny or Turkey, Pheasant, Duck and Quail and like Blackberries then you'd be fine.
It's far cheaper to do it this way that do it the 'traditional' way anyway. But as we are doing that we can claim to all manner of Eco wank titles and handouts they come with these days, which are numerous and some very generous even if many are distorting the crap out of things including the stated end desires of the Govts and other environmentals.
The Wa is currently organising a rammed earth house to be built on site, hopefully using timber grown, milled and treated 100% on site.
Fuck, I think I'm turning into a hippy...... I better go buy a house bus, hair ties and more Zig Zags
15 million litres... FFS that's a lot of 50,000 L plastic tanks 🤣 must be a lake... Or well? Rammed earth... Don't bother! Go brick n tile low maintenance.. you'll need all the time you can get. I had a life sentence block out back of Waipapa. Off grid top systems, generator etc. Nice for a a cupla years then you feel flogged. Best ever off grid system I saw was a water wheel in a stream that ran 24/7/365. Ran a pump, generator, and lathe, of one geared shaft. Annual grease was it. |
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Post by sloopjohnb on Jan 14, 2022 10:17:57 GMT 12
I think a lot of the commercial activity we are seeing in the EV / HV / Solar space is not a climate-driven shift but an economic one ie as fossil fuel supplies diminish their price will skyrocket meaning their use will become unviable well before they actually run out. But the ‘environmental’ association is a convenient marketing label. I concur.
We're 100% solar up north but it wasn't so much due to wanting to make Chloe or Greta happy it was mostly due to getting a grid connected line in would cost over 100K, the closest one is about 2km away and have to come in thru dense bush. There was a strong self reliance angle to the decision as well. We are setting the place up to be self sufficient in electricity and water, it is in water now but I'm increasing the amount stored on site by around 15 million litres. Food wise it's close now even if the diet would be a little limited at the moment, if you can live on slow smoked BBQ wild Pork, Bunny or Turkey, Pheasant, Duck and Quail and like Blackberries then you'd be fine.
It's far cheaper to do it this way that do it the 'traditional' way anyway. But as we are doing that we can claim to all manner of Eco wank titles and handouts they come with these days, which are numerous and some very generous even if many are distorting the crap out of things including the stated end desires of the Govts and other environmentals.
The Wa is currently organising a rammed earth house to be built on site, hopefully using timber grown, milled and treated 100% on site.
Fuck, I think I'm turning into a hippy...... I better go buy a house bus, hair ties and more Zig Zags 
Next you will be saying "you are vegan"  |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jan 14, 2022 10:34:27 GMT 12
I keep getting the feeling that switching to "clean green" solar, electric, lithium, wind, ethanol ... seems to involve more extraction of scarce resources and environmental destruction than basic Oil / Coal ever did. How can it possibly be sustainable? The mining and processing of the materials needed to serve technology and electricity production, distribution and storage is staggering and growing faster than any so called dirty industry ever did. The long term pollution of water and land from mining and processing new desirable materials seems far more destructive than coal or oil ever was. The technology change seems to be more of a diversion than a solution. Correct. Go suss all solar panel manufacturing plants and what will you find? They all use a shit load of coal. One reason is to power the plant in the first place. The second and main reason is they need very clean silicon and the best way to 'scrub' the dirty silicon molecules is by using carbon molecules. After much trailing and sussing the fastest, cheapest, easiest source of carbon molecules is coal.
You will be surprised to know the best quality silicon comes from Western Australia, with the quality achieved by a combination of high grade quartz feed and using Charcoal (rather than coal) produced from fallen Jarrah trees as the reductant. I was construction manager for the Charcoal Plant working for a German company Lurgi (and yes there is a connection to the expression "the dreaded Lurgi"  ) www.simcoa.com.au/ |
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