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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2023 8:58:52 GMT 12
fish As co-governance obviously isn't a solution you believe can work, how would you solve the problem? There isn't a problem to solve. The billions the Crown has paid to various Iwi in treaty settlements is the recourse to past wrongs. That was the whole point of the Treaty settlements. To right the wrongs of the past and to resolve historical grievances. You can't go dreaming up new grievances after taking the billions to settle the grievances. The Crown has the right to govern. If there is uncertainty around that, perhaps we should have a referendum to sort it out? Post Treaty Settlements, what problem are you trying to solve? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 9:30:11 GMT 12
fish As co-governance obviously isn't a solution you believe can work, how would you solve the problem? There isn't a problem to solve. The billions the Crown has paid to various Iwi in treaty settlements is the recourse to past wrongs. That was the whole point of the Treaty settlements. To right the wrongs of the past and to resolve historical grievances. You can't go dreaming up new grievances after taking the billions to settle the grievances. The Crown has the right to govern. If there is uncertainty around that, perhaps we should have a referendum to sort it out? Post Treaty Settlements, what problem are you trying to solve? There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have people damaging Te Papa. There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have just had urgent issues lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal. There obviously is a problem or Maori wouldn't have the worst health outcomes. Broadly speaking the problem is inequality, which stems from colonisation and Maori having been alienated from 95% of their land. How do you propose a referendum would sort out inequality? What questions would you even ask in a referendum? |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2023 9:46:29 GMT 12
There isn't a problem to solve. The billions the Crown has paid to various Iwi in treaty settlements is the recourse to past wrongs. That was the whole point of the Treaty settlements. To right the wrongs of the past and to resolve historical grievances. You can't go dreaming up new grievances after taking the billions to settle the grievances. The Crown has the right to govern. If there is uncertainty around that, perhaps we should have a referendum to sort it out? Post Treaty Settlements, what problem are you trying to solve? There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have people damaging Te Papa. There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have just had urgent issues lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal. There obviously is a problem or Maori wouldn't have the worst health outcomes. Broadly speaking the problem is inequality, which stems from colonisation and Maori having been alienated from 95% of their land. How do you propose a referendum would sort out inequality? What questions would you even ask in a referendum? How do you proposed co-governance sorts out inequality? It has nothing to do with it. It is all about shifting power to the tribal elite. The extreme left tribal radicals damaging Te Papa are no different to the White Supremacist that massacred a load of people they disagreed with. The likes of Willie Jackson threatening a war if they don't get their own way. They are fringe extremists that should be put in their rightful place. |
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Post by fish on Dec 15, 2023 9:51:33 GMT 12
To put it another way, there are always going to be people on the extreme edges of society that have grievances, issues and objections to something or everything. Some of those people will take violent or illegal action. Climate activits blocking roads, anti vaxxers sabotaging the national power grid, white supremacists mass murdering.
The usual ways of dealing with them are largely to ignore them. The rest is up to the security services.
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Post by chariot on Dec 15, 2023 11:52:13 GMT 12
Outcomes for Maori will never improve until they learn to value education. Their attendance stats are appalling. Until that changes, they will continue to have the same outcomes. Unfortunately, the racist party want to look back rather than looking forward.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 12:23:53 GMT 12
Outcomes for Maori will never improve until they learn to value education. Their attendance stats are appalling. Until that changes, they will continue to have the same outcomes. Unfortunately, the racist party want to look back rather than looking forward. While education is important it's really about wealth. In NZ, for the majority of people, wealth comes from property. Sure there's outliers who made it building a business but for the majority it's through property. Maori don't have access to decile 10 schools. Maori don't have access to private schools. Maori don't have access to healthcare. The majority of Maori don't have access to property like the majority of Pakeha do. Which is because it was stolen. Generational wealth doesn't exist for Maori. |
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Post by Cantab on Dec 15, 2023 12:28:14 GMT 12
Pretty sure Maori are the wealthiest demographic per capita in NZ, the problems not wealth.
It's people it's people it's people.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 12:40:07 GMT 12
Pretty sure Maori are the wealthiest demographic per capita in NZ, the problems not wealth. It's people it's people it's people. Blaming the people is a very easy cop out. Do you have some statistics to support your claim? StatsNZ says quite the opposite... Everything I have ever witnessed driving around NZ is quite the opposite. www.stats.govt.nz/reports/wealth-patterns-across-ethnic-groups-in-new-zealandDo you think if Maori was more than European on these graphs that they would be living in Decile 10 school areas or Decile 1? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 13:08:47 GMT 12
My wife had an operation last week. The issue was debilitating her and stopping her working. She had used all her sick leave and all her annual leave. We drew down $20000 on our "property" so she could have the operation cause the health system couldn't get to her till August 2024 (unless it became a life threatening emergency).
Our generational wealth gave us the privilege to be able to do that. Starting with the simple fact that my parents had enough money to send me to a private school. Followed by the fact that there parents owned property that allowed them to be mortgage free. Which somehow came from my great great grandparents who moved to New Zealand from Ireland and bought large chunks of Matamata...
Fuck knows how the family history evolved but my great grand parents family name is still on buildings in Matamata...
I know that my families generational wealth made it possible for my wife to have that surgery and get back to work next week rather than losing a year of her salary...
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 15, 2023 13:18:25 GMT 12
Outcomes for Maori will never improve until they learn to value education. Their attendance stats are appalling. Until that changes, they will continue to have the same outcomes. Unfortunately, the racist party want to look back rather than looking forward. The older i get the more i see maori's being led by a bunch of gready pigs that use the young as shields against their obviuos greed and lack of any empathy with what thay are doing to the unity of NZ. They weaponise the rangatira as an excuse for their own pathetic behaviour. Tuku M Organ doesnt care for thr youth! If he dd he would spend his time funding youth education and health programs, instead of feeding the monster that is the Maori elite corporation of racism. Swearing a ministerial oath on your kids is pathetic when it is them that are kiΔΊling thier kids. Then blaming thier own pathetic behaviours on colonisation that save them from them selves is just delusional, Then, for the morons Ardern and labour to entertain this crap was dumb... and what did the Maori voters do.. they abandoned Labour in favour of TPM. Now thats loyalty aye Jacinda FUcKWITS |
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 15, 2023 13:28:04 GMT 12
My wife had an operation last week. The issue was debilitating her and stopping her working. She had used all her sick leave and all her annual leave. We drew down $20000 on our "property" so she could have the operation cause the health system couldn't get to her till August 2024 (unless it became a life threatening emergency). Our generational wealth gave us the privilege to be able to do that. Starting with the simple fact that my parents had enough money to send me to a private school. Followed by the fact that there parents owned property that allowed them to be mortgage free. Which somehow came from my great great grandparents who moved to New Zealand from Ireland and bought large chunks of Matamata... Fuck knows how the family history evolved but my great grand parents family name is still on buildings in Matamata... I know that my families generational wealth made it possible for my wife to have that surgery and get back to work next week rather than losing a year of her salary... WTF... you drew down/ borrowed on your house. Thats not generational wealth. That a lack of a savings plan. If you aint got any savings youre gunna suffer, Did you inherit your house? |
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 15, 2023 13:35:20 GMT 12
There isn't a problem to solve. The billions the Crown has paid to various Iwi in treaty settlements is the recourse to past wrongs. That was the whole point of the Treaty settlements. To right the wrongs of the past and to resolve historical grievances. You can't go dreaming up new grievances after taking the billions to settle the grievances. The Crown has the right to govern. If there is uncertainty around that, perhaps we should have a referendum to sort it out? Post Treaty Settlements, what problem are you trying to solve? There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have people damaging Te Papa. There obviously is a problem or we wouldn't have just had urgent issues lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal. There obviously is a problem or Maori wouldn't have the worst health outcomes. Broadly speaking the problem is inequality, which stems from colonisation and Maori having been alienated from 95% of their land. How do you propose a referendum would sort out inequality? What questions would you even ask in a referendum? Maori elite shitstirrers ruin everything for no reason. They are paid to. |
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Post by Cantab on Dec 15, 2023 13:36:15 GMT 12
Stats NZ, happily, ignore iwi assets and Maori land when determining the wealth of Maori.
Cant find the article again, yet. Iwi have 11 BILLION in assets, on top of that
Maori land and resources are worth moonbeams.
For a group that want to manage and lead themselves they are in a pretty good position to do it, they seem to want to have their cake and eat someone else's though.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 13:41:39 GMT 12
My wife had an operation last week. The issue was debilitating her and stopping her working. She had used all her sick leave and all her annual leave. We drew down $20000 on our "property" so she could have the operation cause the health system couldn't get to her till August 2024 (unless it became a life threatening emergency). Our generational wealth gave us the privilege to be able to do that. Starting with the simple fact that my parents had enough money to send me to a private school. Followed by the fact that there parents owned property that allowed them to be mortgage free. Which somehow came from my great great grandparents who moved to New Zealand from Ireland and bought large chunks of Matamata... Fuck knows how the family history evolved but my great grand parents family name is still on buildings in Matamata... I know that my families generational wealth made it possible for my wife to have that surgery and get back to work next week rather than losing a year of her salary... WTF... you drew down/ borrowed on your house. Thats not generational wealth. That a lack of a savings plan. If you aint got any savings youre gunna suffer, Did you inherit your house? Our liquid wealth is in our property, our rainyday savings is offset against the mortgage. Having money in the bank earning interest that you're paying tax on is pointless. We have shares as well, but they are doing better than the interest rate on the mortgage and selling them triggers an accounting cost and possible tax implications... It's revolving credit, so access is easy pezy... No issues or conversations required with the bank. No the house wasn't inherited. The generational wealth allowed this all to be possible. Sending me to a private school, hooking me up with wealthy smart families, getting me into a good white collar job. Oh and bailing me out of debt when I made some stupid decisions in my teens/early 20s...rather than letting me file for bankruptcy... |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 15, 2023 13:51:07 GMT 12
Stats NZ, happily, ignore iwi assets and Maori land when determining the wealth of Maori. Cant find the article again, yet. Iwi have 11 BILLION in assets, on top of that Maori land and resources are worth moonbeams. For a group that want to manage and lead themselves they are in a pretty good position to do it, they seem to want to have their cake and eat someone else's though. So Maori have $11 billion out of an estimated $2 trillion of total nz property stock? Do that's 0.5% - not bad considering they once had 100%... You won't find a valid formula that has maori holding more wealth than Europeans per capita. |
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