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Post by armchairadmiral on Nov 18, 2021 7:26:20 GMT 12
Great stuff thanks. It's important in my view that this doesn't become a platform with same views. I enjoyed discussion with A J Oliver and he was definitely different but had intelligent contribution. Occasionally even BP had a worthwhile contribution. I'm not savvy on how it works but a roundup of those could be good. It's a small grouping but with the same background interests the posts can be quite stimulating
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 18, 2021 8:08:36 GMT 12
He's here already, risen from the ashes as GO30  Another AWOL crew member I have wondered about is Wheels, had not seen him on line for some months. Hopefully HarryTom will come on board soon as well Have you sent them a PM with our link to encourage them to take a look here in case they like it? Likewise feel free to invite anyone else who might be interested! Yep, PM sent |
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Post by Fogg on Nov 18, 2021 9:03:06 GMT 12
Great stuff thanks. It's important in my view that this doesn't become a platform with same views. I enjoyed discussion with A J Oliver and he was definitely different but had intelligent contribution. Occasionally even BP had a worthwhile contribution. I'm not savvy on how it works but a roundup of those could be good. It's a small grouping but with the same background interests the posts can be quite stimulating Agree that diversity of views is v important for a healthy discussion and interesting place - to avoid the echo chamber effect. And even better if accompanied by a philosophy of “strong beliefs loosely held”… easy to say but hard to do (guilty!) 😊 |
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Post by eri on Nov 18, 2021 20:34:49 GMT 12
fixed it As the recent report from research centre Te Pūnaha Matatini showed, there has been a sharp increase in the "popularity and intensity of Covid-19 specific disinformation and other forms of 'dangerous speech' and disinformation, related to far-right left ideologies".The analysis noted a broader threat: "that Covid-19 and vaccination are being used as a kind of Trojan Horse for norm-setting and norm-entrenchment of far-right left ideologies in Aotearoa New Zealand".
www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/456039/risks-of-increasing-covid-19-disinformation-extremism-in-new-zealand |
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Post by eri on Nov 18, 2021 21:33:30 GMT 12
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Post by armchairadmiral on Nov 19, 2021 7:19:23 GMT 12
Arrogance and total disregard for the law,the population and well being of democracy.A pack of Lying deceitful B...stds to quote a leading honest newspaper. The modus operandi of a 3rd world dictatorship. And we've got another 2 years ? Who's voting to extend parliamentary term to 4 years now?
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Post by sloopjohnb on Nov 19, 2021 7:34:13 GMT 12
At this stage 2 years terms can to do enough damage...........but just blame it on Covid........just like the cost of fuel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 8:21:11 GMT 12
My son Just flew to Wellington,7.00am from Auckland,who did he sit next too?? Grant Robertson. Quick conversation how Grant should be PM,just a smile in return
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Post by Fogg on Nov 19, 2021 8:42:54 GMT 12
fixed it As the recent report from research centre Te Pūnaha Matatini showed, there has been a sharp increase in the "popularity and intensity of Covid-19 specific disinformation and other forms of 'dangerous speech' and disinformation, related to far-right left ideologies".The analysis noted a broader threat: "that Covid-19 and vaccination are being used as a kind of Trojan Horse for norm-setting and norm-entrenchment of far-right left ideologies in Aotearoa New Zealand".
www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/456039/risks-of-increasing-covid-19-disinformation-extremism-in-new-zealandReminds me of teaching my young son: Me: “We need to turn left, which way is that?” Son: Indicates right. Me: “The other left”. Maybe he’ll grow up to be a journalist? |
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Post by ajoliver on Nov 19, 2021 8:47:07 GMT 12
"The modern version of the left – what some might call the “woke left”, the “liberal left” or the “middle class left” – clearly has some very different ways of pursuing political change. Largely it’s an elite top-down model of politics, reflective of the left being made up of the highly-educated stratum of society. They confidently believe that they know best.This leftwing elite approach is very compatible with a more censorious approach to politics.
Whereas the traditional left has been the force in society that is most favourable to “free speech” and towards mass participation in politics, it’s now quite the opposite. The contemporary left also has a newfound mistrust in the ability of society to make the right decisions or to understand the world.
In an elitist way, many on the progressive side of politics view the public as being too uneducated or lacking enlightenment
democracyproject.nz/2021/05/23/bryce-edwards-the-state-of-the-political-left-in-the-age-of-outrage/ I know that I am in a different environment from NZ here in the US, but in my experience the vast majority of censorship comes from the political right. They are going hysterically bonkers about critical race theory, ordering teachers what to say. They are banning books. They even have the effrontery to dictate what professional health care providers can say to patients about reproductive rights. If you professional speech includes criticism of Israel's policies vis a vis Palestine, they will come right after your job. And yet, the political speech of the US right now includes violent threats as a normalized tactic. Their leaders are OK with that. |
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Post by Fogg on Nov 19, 2021 9:08:30 GMT 12
Welcome AJO!
That is what I find so fascinating and bewildering these days. I’m sure that when I was younger it was far simpler to work out who & what was left, who & what was right and you simply picked the choices that suited you the best. There was all the same arguing about who is right vs wrong but at least it was clear what was attributable to which group.
But now it’s all so murky and whilst the politicised positions are as hard left or right as ever, the discussion and policies (and blame game) is far murkier to work out. Everyone blames each other for the same ‘creeping rot’ whereas before at least people clearly owned their ideology and defended it.
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Post by eri on Nov 19, 2021 9:24:14 GMT 12
the american 'centre' is more to the right than nz's
as is the australian centre
to the point that the majority of american democrats would probably feel more at home with the policies of national or act than labour
so it pisses me off no end with the nz left denounce any common-sense, traditionally held, world average political views as "far right"
they really are in a bubble and seemingly know nothing about the outside world and business
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Post by eri on Nov 19, 2021 9:30:52 GMT 12
a few lines pulled from a paywalled economist article KEEP YOUR eye on one thing and one thing only: how much government is spending,” Milton Friedman once said. Today his eyes would be popping.
As our Briefing this week explains, the state almost always expands relative to GDP over time. Three forces are at work. The first is obviously malign. Inertia and mission creep make government hard to pare back. Voters and lobbyists who benefit from a regulation or item of spending have every reason to work hard at preserving it, whereas the many taxpayers who pay for pork barrels have better things to do than petition politicians to get rid of them. The bureaucrats in charge want to defend their turf and careers. When a programme fails, its supporters say it could still succeed if only it were given more money.
The second force is a fact of life. Prices of the services welfare states provide, such as health care and education, grow faster than the economy because of their high labour intensity and low rates of productivity increase. Though government inefficiency can make things worse, this “cost disease” afflicts the private and public sectors alike. It comes with the territory.
The third force is that governments today have more things to get done. As voters became richer over the 20th century they demanded more education and more of the expensive health care that takes advantage of the latest science. Today, as they age, they want to keep up spending on the elderly. And, increasingly, they want governments to do something about climate change.
www.economist.com/leaders/2021/11/20/the-world-is-entering-a-new-era-of-big-government |
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Post by dutyfree on Nov 19, 2021 9:43:44 GMT 12
Having lived in the USA for a period I would say democrats are closer to NZ's "centre right". The Republican right is very small in NZ.
For example, I find very few "right" in NZ who dont support public health, education and welfare. The general difference will be the degree, for example some limits on term of welfare (hand up not hand out), means testing etc.
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Post by Fogg on Nov 19, 2021 11:26:28 GMT 12
Whilst I was driving yesterday I thought I heard a sound bite from Scott Morrison(?) saying something like:
"The Australian Government has had to push itself into the middle of people's lives for the last 18 months and it's now time for the Govt to step back and for Australians to take control back and to get on with their own lives."
Did I hear that correctly?
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