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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 25, 2022 10:43:10 GMT 12
Seeing as we are seeing increases in outages and increasing grid power cost, alternative options start to look more attractive.
There was quite alot of interesting info buried in our exchanges on EV's which I have extracted to save hunting around
Em wrote
We are solar only , 3kw of panels and 4.8w of batteries which are starting to fade after 4.5 years due to a few installation mistakes . Switching to lithium very soon for less battery anxiety and less generator use on dark mornings when everyone wants a coffee and toast before work/school .
we have solar hot water which is very very good . It’s a bit different being a roof top tank of 350 litres with wetback connected too but it means it’s gravity fed so we don’t have a water pump which is a considerable consumer of power . We have a 10,000 litre header tank for house supply and it’s only 10 meters higher than the house , 100 meters away under a tree and gives good pressure .
the HW system we have now is totally roof mounted with no mechanical parts and is very good . Evacuated tubes not panels and has a 2KW electric element for very bad weather plus an inlet for the wetback . 80 degrees today and it boils over most days in summer .
we have fridge/freezer , chest freezer , TV , and all the usual plug and play equipment for various household tasks . 3kw is just enough but with lithium we will be sweet . Much smaller batteries needed because depth of discharge can be 80% compared to the 45% we have to stick to with the lead batteries . They also charge faster and partial charge won’t feck them up …works out we can now have more capacity for the almost half the price of what our lead batteries cost 5 years ago .
generator is diesel and would use maybe 100 litres per winter . We use LPG for cooking and go through 9kg in 6 weeks in summer and a bit less in winter as we use the wood stove for roasting/baking in winter
yep water tanks . Main tank is down low at the barn , there is a Davies piston pump with a petrol motor on it that pumps up to the header tank when needed …1 litre of petrol will pump 10,000 litres of water up to the header tank at fast idle .
The afternoon job today was swapping the old VLRA batteries out for the new LifeP04 batts in our offgrid system . 2 batteries at 22kg replaced 12 batteries at 35kg each . Hoping that “range anxiety “ will now be a thing of the past .
Switching to LifePo4 on our house batteries has opened up the option of charging our car of the system now . The LifePo4 we have can take a crazy continuous current charge (63A) and are charged before midday as opposed to the the lead batteries having 3 stages that took all day in winter .
the only draw back is I will have to rig up a fairly elaborate separate circuit for the car and programme the inverter to switch the circuit on and off as clouds come through . Will be doing this though because at the moment we have 3Kw of PV sitting there all afternoon doing nothing .
and GO30 wrote
The preliminary system for our house, 12 flash panels, 15.4KW (12.3 useable working on 80% DoD) of Lithium plus fancy inverter and all the bits needed is currently at nearly $24K plus installation of a few hours labour. If we went for Gels we were at 28.8kW (14.4 usable at 50% DoD) the price would drop to 18K. Includes GST. On to that I'll put a small stand by genny and the panels on a tracker.
Talking solar water heating with a mate who has it in his big house with many occupants, which is in the burbs. He reckons it's good as long at it is in use. They have had to put in some extra gear to handle the system when no one is home as it keeps working and will boil unless used.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
Ah ha, yeah they got off to a bad start, that's a bummer.
Also why I have all controls in the one spot including breakers. There is a master fuse out by the panels but if it pop there will be nothing coming in. All the rest I can see super easy and anything out of whack should stick out like bulls balls.
My solar guys and I have 3 sets all independent of each other and been in the game a long while, all reckon a good bank set up well should cruise it for many many years. They are all telling me the Gels should still be fine in 10 years as long as nothing goes bad in the system.
I will suss that mid winter 90% angle though as it is a important aspect. We should be fine as we have big panels in perfect sun (and hopefully on a tracker shortly) and having spend out lives on boats we have been trained in the ways of low consumption.
On Thursday I spoke to my Resource Consent specialist* about the legalities of having off grid in the Burbs. We're going to develop out city property into a pile of units and I'm sussing the viability of having them all off grid power wise. Also with water, putting in 2 separate systems, one to the kitchen and bath room taps with mains water, all the rest from tanks. If 3 Waters gets in water bills will sky rocket so build to minimise the need to be part of that shambles is the theory.
I am thinking about a standby arrangement rather than full off grid, so priorities are
1. keep the Fridge going
2. partial lighting - all LED so should be easy
3. Water supply from tanks and Water heating
Could do it all with a 10kVA generator but would prefer a more subtle approach along the lines of batteries, inverter/charger, some solar and a smallish 3-5kVA standby generator. Ideally set it up so say the fridge was permanently running on battery inverter, charged by solar with 230V charging kicking in when required.
Biggest consumer is the water pump followed by the fridge and electric water heating. Taking the water pump out of the equation reduces the inrush current issues. Water heating can be addressed with LPG and/or solar
So a couple of questions for EM
1. What is the rating of your inverter? Is it just an inverter or inverter charger
2. Where did you source your solar water heater?
3. Does your generator directly feed the house circuits, or thru the inverter?
Following on from Em feeding his house from a gravity water tank I am eying up the embankment behind my house as a possibility, although not sure if there is enough head. That being said when i lived in Brazil our house was fed by head tanks sitting in the roof, just the same way houses here used to have head tanks feeding the old low pressure HWS.
I also quite like GO30's "boat like" water system. I have a spare 13l/min 12V pump sitting around and a small size califont would be all that is necessary for one shower at a time. People forget that the domestic size califonts (Rinnai's and the like) need 230V to ignite, which can of course be solved via an inverter .
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Post by eri on Jun 25, 2022 12:40:10 GMT 12
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Post by jim on Jun 25, 2022 18:25:37 GMT 12
We have been off-grid for 20 years and it has been both comforting during powercuts and worthwhile from a dollars point of view. the only worry is battery life ... normally around 7 years for our bank of truck batteries. I recently met a guy who uses capacitors which he thought were US made, 48v and around 3.3 kw/hr storage a piece, with a practically unlimited life. anyone have experience with them?
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Post by eri on Jun 26, 2022 9:25:18 GMT 12
not with capacitors of that type
but small capacitors are used in gps to help fast position finding on start-up, (by holding satellite almanac data)
after 10 years or so they stop holding charge
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Post by em on Jun 27, 2022 10:32:37 GMT 12
Seeing as we are seeing increases in outages and increasing grid power cost, alternative options start to look more attractive. There was quite alot of interesting info buried in our exchanges on EV's which I have extracted to save hunting around Em wroteWe are solar only , 3kw of panels and 4.8w of batteries which are starting to fade after 4.5 years due to a few installation mistakes . Switching to lithium very soon for less battery anxiety and less generator use on dark mornings when everyone wants a coffee and toast before work/school .
we have solar hot water which is very very good . It’s a bit different being a roof top tank of 350 litres with wetback connected too but it means it’s gravity fed so we don’t have a water pump which is a considerable consumer of power . We have a 10,000 litre header tank for house supply and it’s only 10 meters higher than the house , 100 meters away under a tree and gives good pressure .
the HW system we have now is totally roof mounted with no mechanical parts and is very good . Evacuated tubes not panels and has a 2KW electric element for very bad weather plus an inlet for the wetback . 80 degrees today and it boils over most days in summer .
we have fridge/freezer , chest freezer , TV , and all the usual plug and play equipment for various household tasks . 3kw is just enough but with lithium we will be sweet . Much smaller batteries needed because depth of discharge can be 80% compared to the 45% we have to stick to with the lead batteries . They also charge faster and partial charge won’t feck them up …works out we can now have more capacity for the almost half the price of what our lead batteries cost 5 years ago .
generator is diesel and would use maybe 100 litres per winter . We use LPG for cooking and go through 9kg in 6 weeks in summer and a bit less in winter as we use the wood stove for roasting/baking in winter
yep water tanks . Main tank is down low at the barn , there is a Davies piston pump with a petrol motor on it that pumps up to the header tank when needed …1 litre of petrol will pump 10,000 litres of water up to the header tank at fast idle .
The afternoon job today was swapping the old VLRA batteries out for the new LifeP04 batts in our offgrid system . 2 batteries at 22kg replaced 12 batteries at 35kg each . Hoping that “range anxiety “ will now be a thing of the past .
Switching to LifePo4 on our house batteries has opened up the option of charging our car of the system now . The LifePo4 we have can take a crazy continuous current charge (63A) and are charged before midday as opposed to the the lead batteries having 3 stages that took all day in winter .
the only draw back is I will have to rig up a fairly elaborate separate circuit for the car and programme the inverter to switch the circuit on and off as clouds come through . Will be doing this though because at the moment we have 3Kw of PV sitting there all afternoon doing nothing .
and GO30 wrote The preliminary system for our house, 12 flash panels, 15.4KW (12.3 useable working on 80% DoD) of Lithium plus fancy inverter and all the bits needed is currently at nearly $24K plus installation of a few hours labour. If we went for Gels we were at 28.8kW (14.4 usable at 50% DoD) the price would drop to 18K. Includes GST. On to that I'll put a small stand by genny and the panels on a tracker.
Talking solar water heating with a mate who has it in his big house with many occupants, which is in the burbs. He reckons it's good as long at it is in use. They have had to put in some extra gear to handle the system when no one is home as it keeps working and will boil unless used.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
Ah ha, yeah they got off to a bad start, that's a bummer.
Also why I have all controls in the one spot including breakers. There is a master fuse out by the panels but if it pop there will be nothing coming in. All the rest I can see super easy and anything out of whack should stick out like bulls balls.
My solar guys and I have 3 sets all independent of each other and been in the game a long while, all reckon a good bank set up well should cruise it for many many years. They are all telling me the Gels should still be fine in 10 years as long as nothing goes bad in the system.
I will suss that mid winter 90% angle though as it is a important aspect. We should be fine as we have big panels in perfect sun (and hopefully on a tracker shortly) and having spend out lives on boats we have been trained in the ways of low consumption.
On Thursday I spoke to my Resource Consent specialist* about the legalities of having off grid in the Burbs. We're going to develop out city property into a pile of units and I'm sussing the viability of having them all off grid power wise. Also with water, putting in 2 separate systems, one to the kitchen and bath room taps with mains water, all the rest from tanks. If 3 Waters gets in water bills will sky rocket so build to minimise the need to be part of that shambles is the theory.I am thinking about a standby arrangement rather than full off grid, so priorities are 1. keep the Fridge going 2. partial lighting - all LED so should be easy 3. Water supply from tanks and Water heating Could do it all with a 10kVA generator but would prefer a more subtle approach along the lines of batteries, inverter/charger, some solar and a smallish 3-5kVA standby generator. Ideally set it up so say the fridge was permanently running on battery inverter, charged by solar with 230V charging kicking in when required. Biggest consumer is the water pump followed by the fridge and electric water heating. Taking the water pump out of the equation reduces the inrush current issues. Water heating can be addressed with LPG and/or solar So a couple of questions for EM 1. What is the rating of your inverter? Is it just an inverter or inverter charger 2. Where did you source your solar water heater? 3. Does your generator directly feed the house circuits, or thru the inverter? Following on from Em feeding his house from a gravity water tank I am eying up the embankment behind my house as a possibility, although not sure if there is enough head. That being said when i lived in Brazil our house was fed by head tanks sitting in the roof, just the same way houses here used to have head tanks feeding the old low pressure HWS. I also quite like GO30's "boat like" water system. I have a spare 13l/min 12V pump sitting around and a small size califont would be all that is necessary for one shower at a time. People forget that the domestic size califonts (Rinnai's and the like) need 230V to ignite, which can of course be solved via an inverter . The inverter and all the solar gear is outback brand . The inverter has max output of 3KW or 35Aac , it’s an inverter charger so we have a 5KW Hyundai generator that’s directly connected to inverter . The inverter will handle house loads and battery charging at the same time so we usually turn on the electric water heater element in the solar water tank when we are charging . the PV charging is taken care of by a couple of solar chargers with a string of 5x300 panels per charger . The great thing about the outback gear is it can be manually setup via internet app or from the standalone control unit to accept any type of battery …..it’s very bloody technical and I had a few days of remote assistance from a tech in the US getting it optimised for the particular LifePo4 batteries we put in a month ago . we run a big fridge/freezer just a regular LG from Harvey Norman and a medium sized f&p chest freezer . With both of them running the draw is only 100W which is bugger all though it does add up overnight at the moment but nothing concerning , we can still crank up the espresso Machine and toaster pre dawn no problems . With the fairly large TV and sound bar/sub going plus house lights , fridge , freezer , and diesel heater the load draw is 400W but only for 2-3 hours . Anything major like vacuuming or washing we just do during daylight , the inverter just cranks up the panels to put more current in to run loads . we got the solar hot water unit from an outfit in Christchurch called suntrap , it’s a close-ish Chinese copy to a solarhart unit . If I did it again I would get solarhart because after getting the plumber in to do the connections it was only $500 cheaper than the installed price of the solarhart which back then was 7K . It’s very very efficient and has wetback plus electric immersion heater backup . Right now it’s 60C down from 70 last night and should reach 70+ by 3 this arvo . The Tempering valve is set at 55C so anything above that is money in the bank but even if it gets down to 45C that’s still plenty warm enough for a shower . It’s a 350Ltr rooftop tank so gravity fed , we have a flat roof so it’s on a stand so the tubes have the correct angle of attack for the sun . On a small rise behind the house we have a 10.000Ltr header tank that’s only 6 meters above the house floor and only 2 metres higher than the solar water tank . It’s nowhere near mains pressure but with a low pressure shower mixer it’s fine plus there’s absolutely no waterpump dramas . Compared to a 12Ltr per minute marine pump it’s much better which was going to be our backup option for the shower if it didn’t work . |
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Post by em on Jun 27, 2022 10:40:08 GMT 12
We have just put two of the 24V model of these batteries in www.powerplus-energy.com.au/. and just took 350kg of lead acid batteries to metalman So for comparison the power plus batteries are 22kg each and about twice the size of a DVD player , the lead acid batteries took up almost 1.5m2 of floor space and needed a vented box . We are going to add a 3rd battery early next year when funds allow just for peace of mind . |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 30, 2022 21:32:54 GMT 12
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Post by GO30 on Jul 13, 2022 11:08:32 GMT 12
We're designing the house for the farm and a 8-9 unit development on our city section. The farm will be solar, there no options up there, but we are looking very hard at being off grid for the city development as well. Each unit would have a small (1-2kw) genny for top up if needed rather than be grid connected.
To date there is some big push back from council to that suggestion, but to date they can't really give a good or even coherent argument as to why not. About the most viable one so far, and it is big stretch, is the solar panels would be a H&S issue as they may reflect light into the cockpit of aircraft flying over head. The battle continues.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 11:29:54 GMT 12
We're designing the house for the farm and a 8-9 unit development on our city section. The farm will be solar, there no options up there, but we are looking very hard at being off grid for the city development as well. Each unit would have a small (1-2kw) genny for top up if needed rather than be grid connected. To date there is some big push back from council to that suggestion, but to date they can't really give a good or even coherent argument as to why not. About the most viable one so far, and it is big stretch, is the solar panels would be a H&S issue as they may reflect light into the cockpit of aircraft flying over head. The battle continues. What have solar panels got to do with generators? There's hundreds of houses in Auckland that have solar panels that are are grid connected for top up. Sounds like a week argument. Do you have any $$ numbers to share on how generators work out vs a grid connections. I would of just expected a grid connection would be cheaper than having a backup generator so keen to see how it stacks up. Is this a diesel or hydrogen generator? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 11:55:40 GMT 12
We're designing the house for the farm and a 8-9 unit development on our city section. The farm will be solar, there no options up there, but we are looking very hard at being off grid for the city development as well. Each unit would have a small (1-2kw) genny for top up if needed rather than be grid connected. To date there is some big push back from council to that suggestion, but to date they can't really give a good or even coherent argument as to why not. About the most viable one so far, and it is big stretch, is the solar panels would be a H&S issue as they may reflect light into the cockpit of aircraft flying over head. The battle continues. What have solar panels got to do with generators? There's hundreds of houses in Auckland that have solar panels that are are grid connected for top up. Sounds like a week argument. Do you have any $$ numbers to share on how generators work out vs a grid connections. I would of just expected a grid connection would be cheaper than having a backup generator so keen to see how it stacks up. Is this a diesel or hydrogen generator? my mum says your dumb Deleted!... Where in your dumb post/ argument do you ask - how many times do you use the generator/ is it a hydro or wind generator?!!! Where do you ask- " how long have you had the cells?!" Your inexperience shines through! If the solar cells are used 90+% of the time and the system is paid off, then it's a no brainer! Even if it 30% paid off it's a NB! Also, who gives a flying fuck about the fuel source of the generator... When... 1 60,000 planes fly daily around the world burning 120,000,000 litres of Avgas daily.... 2. Ardern an Shaw are burning record levels of coal! 3. Despite record petrol prices people are still buying cars... And driving them Get the picture Deleted aka James Offshore! Deleted, when you grow up, get some real world experience, and get out of lala land you will suddenly realize the reality and scale of the real issue that face the world and not just your pathetic country NZ. |
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Post by fish on Jul 13, 2022 12:46:29 GMT 12
We're designing the house for the farm and a 8-9 unit development on our city section. The farm will be solar, there no options up there, but we are looking very hard at being off grid for the city development as well. Each unit would have a small (1-2kw) genny for top up if needed rather than be grid connected. To date there is some big push back from council to that suggestion, but to date they can't really give a good or even coherent argument as to why not. About the most viable one so far, and it is big stretch, is the solar panels would be a H&S issue as they may reflect light into the cockpit of aircraft flying over head. The battle continues. I think you will find the main issue with not being grid connected is the developer contribution charges they want from you. These are a significant cost for water and wastewater, which is in addition to roading, amenities, footpaths, parks, street lighting etc. I have assisted Developers in the area of getting consent to do their own water and wastewater, because they can do it better and cheaper than Watercare. I bet you can imagine the bitching if you start threatening their monopoly on the provision of services? I'm not sure how this impacts on electrical gird, as this is entirely commercial. Idea, one of my Developers set up his own lines company. So he owns the power network in his development. He then subcontracts vector to maintain it, and has some kind of payback via the lines charges. It all went a bit over my head when he explained it to me. Does the same for gas network as well. He is also right across PV's on new builds, especially commercial where they lease the space and continue to own the building. BUT, that might be a legit way for you to get around your off-grid issue with Council. Just set up your own renewable power company. Its only assets would be PV's on your development, but it is actually super legit. I expect with your business knowledge it would take you 5 min to set up and register a power company. Then the Council can't argue jack about what you do... |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 13, 2022 13:15:11 GMT 12
I think you will find the main issue with not being grid connected is the developer contribution charges they want from you. These are a significant cost for water and wastewater, which is in addition to roading, amenities, footpaths, parks, street lighting etc. I have assisted Developers in the area of getting consent to do their own water and wastewater, because they can do it better and cheaper than Watercare. I bet you can imagine the bitching if you start threatening their monopoly on the provision of services? I'm not sure how this impacts on electrical gird, as this is entirely commercial. Idea, one of my Developers set up his own lines company. So he owns the power network in his development. He then subcontracts vector to maintain it, and has some kind of payback via the lines charges. It all went a bit over my head when he explained it to me. Does the same for gas network as well. He is also right across PV's on new builds, especially commercial where they lease the space and continue to own the building. BUT, that might be a legit way for you to get around your off-grid issue with Council. Just set up your own renewable power company. Its only assets would be PV's on your development, but it is actually super legit. I expect with your business knowledge it would take you 5 min to set up and register a power company. Then the Council can't argue jack about what you do... You can read here about Vector's policy on capital contribution (form 2017 so may not be latest) blob-static.vector.co.nz/blob/vector/media/vector-regulatory-disclosures/171201-policy-for-determining-capital-contributions-electricity-dist.pdfOn the motorway job I am coordinating the Vector work as they have had to install a number of new power supplies for our use and reroute others (and some gas lines). We have had to pay full price for all of this. Where there is "shared" benefit, then cost is shared. We have done some future proofing work for Vector and they have to pay us  On the water side I have a mate who is on scheme water but also has a water tank. His consent prohibited him from connecting the water tank to the house services, he can only use it for car washing and garden watering. They also adjusted his waste water calculation from 80% to 100% of scheme water consumption. Just insane, as a minimum roof water should be used for toilet flushing and washing machine. I am on tank water and would rather drink that than the scheme water |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 13:54:35 GMT 12
What have solar panels got to do with generators? There's hundreds of houses in Auckland that have solar panels that are are grid connected for top up. Sounds like a week argument. Do you have any $$ numbers to share on how generators work out vs a grid connections. I would of just expected a grid connection would be cheaper than having a backup generator so keen to see how it stacks up. Is this a diesel or hydrogen generator? my mum says your dumb Deleted!... Where in your dumb post/ argument do you ask - how many times do you use the generator/ is it a hydro or wind generator?!!! Where do you ask- " how long have you had the cells?!" Your inexperience shines through! If the solar cells are used 90+% of the time and the system is paid off, then it's a no brainer! Even if it 30% paid off it's a NB! Also, who gives a flying fuck about the fuel source of the generator... When... 1 60,000 planes fly daily around the world burning 120,000,000 litres of Avgas daily.... 2. Ardern an Shaw are burning record levels of coal! 3. Despite record petrol prices people are still buying cars... And driving them Get the picture Deleted aka James Offshore! Deleted, when you grow up, get some real world experience, and get out of lala land you will suddenly realize the reality and scale of the real issue that face the world and not just your pathetic country NZ. You seem to be having problems reading or comprehending and appear to be in lala land. Firstly I am not making an argument. Let me reiterate for you, as you are obviously interested in my post having taken the time to respond - and maybe you can help me with answers I am seeking. 1. GO30 said the council was rejecting him on having a 2kw generator for top up, BECAUSE solar panels were a H&S issue for the aeroplanes.My comment was therefore that, that seems a rather week argument. To expand on that, I can't see why the council could justify the refusal to install a 2Kw generator due to the reflection from the solar panels, because there are thousands of houses in Auckland with them. I personally can't see how that's a valid reason to reject the installation of a generator. And I maintain that is a week argument by the council. 2. I then asked for some information on how the $$ stack up against the 2kw generator vs grid connected. And made the naive comment that "I would of just expected grid to be cheaper than a generator"To your comment - " Your experience shines through!" - well duh!! - you're quite right. I don't have any experience of generator vs grid connected $$ - this is why I am asking the question. I would love to see how the two stack up financially. Please enlighten me. 3. I ask if it is diesel or hydrogen
You are right that I did not ask if it was hydro or wind - as you pointed out I am not very fluent on energy sources, but I would of thought that 2Kw of wind or 2Kw of Hydro was going to be quite big and expensive commercial units and I admit that I wrote those off as options. You will note I also did not ask if it was propane, natural gas, geothermal, AV gas or even nuclear fusion. You might consider that to be a bit naïve of me for not including those in my options but I somehow feel that if it wasn't either diesel or hydrogen, then GO30 could simply have replied with, "a ctually it's neither, we are using xyz generation". 4. With regard to your question: "who gives a flying fuck about the fuel source of the generator..."Thanks for asking, I do, I am interested in the type of 2kw generator that GO30 wants to deploy for top up purposes. There is some pretty cool fuel cell tech out there, I have looked at a methane fuel cell for the boat to replace the generator cause wind and hydro suck. But it doesn't stack up so I stick with the diesel genny, but I still hate the noise. So yeah, I care, I want to know about other generator tech particularly in the 2kw range, so hey, thanks for asking - you're the man! The remainder of your email seems to be totally irrelevant to what I wrote or was asking about. Can you please explain to why I would ask "how long have you had the cells for?" I don't understand what relevance the age of the cells have to GO30's desire to put in a generator for top up when needed, or my desire to understand the fuel and cost benefit analysis of said generator. Could you also please explain the relevance of these comments and how they relate to GO30's desire to have a 2Kw top up generator?- 1 60,000 planes fly daily around the world burning 120,000,000 litres of Avgas daily....
- 2. Ardern an Shaw are burning record levels of coal!
- 3. Despite record petrol prices people are still buying cars... And driving them
The following indicates that you have an inability to read, and again I do not know how my questions have any relevance to lala land.- when you grow up, get some real world experience, and get out of lala land you will suddenly realize the reality and scale of the real issue that face the world and not just your pathetic country NZ.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to you educating me on the benefit of a grid tied vs a private generation top-up in the city. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:12:30 GMT 12
Here's you post...
What have solar panels got to do with generators? There's hundreds of houses in Auckland that have solar panels that are are grid connected for top up. Sounds like a week argument.
Do you have any $$ numbers to share on how generators work out vs a grid connections.
I would of just expected a grid connection would be cheaper than having a backup generator so keen to see how it stacks up.
Is this a diesel or hydrogen generator
You assumed the "poor argument 'was based on people topping up with the grid. They could be selling back. and you assumed grid to be cheaper.
Then you assumed the back up generation was being used so much as to make the solar system expensive
Then you failed to determine the details of the systems you where bagging (the "week argument" statement!)
G030s argument should have been quantified before bagging his system and him.
Then you made out, indirectly, that he was running a generator that was not effecient.
All in all a bad day D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 15:06:31 GMT 12
and you assumed grid to be cheaper. Yes that's correct as I have already mentioned and written very clearly in my first post. Hence I am interested in any $$ comparison of a generator vs grid. What part of this am I not communicating clearly? Then you assumed the back up generation was being used so much as to make the solar system expensive I made no mention what so ever of this. I made no comment at all that the generator made the solar system expensive? I don't know why you have concluded this. I have made an assumption that grid is cheaper than a generator - I was very clear that I have made that assumption and I have asked for any information to show $$ grid vs generator. Then you failed to determine the details of the systems you where bagging (the "week argument" statement!) Again you have failed to read. This is what GO30 said: To which I responded: You need to READ in the context of the response. The week argument has been made by the council. The council is the one making the week argument for why a generator cannot be used. My position is very clearly that there are 100s of solar panels deployed on Auckland houses, therefore it is a week argument from the council that the reflection of the solar panels should stop the installation of a generator. G030s argument should have been quantified before bagging his system and him. To reiterate the above - you have failed to read. At no point have I bagged GO30's system or even him. Then you made out, indirectly, that he was running a generator that was not effecient. That is your assumption. And it is blatantly wrong. I am absolutely aware that there are very efficient generators out there. You assumed the "poor argument 'was based on people topping up with the grid. They could be selling back. and you assumed grid to be cheaper. Again you have failed to read. GO30 said he wanted the generator for TOP UP purposes because he did not want to be grid connected. So I did not assume the purpose for the generation. I even quoted exactly what he said in my response. Your inability to read and make wild assumptions is not my problem. Let me recap for you 1. I am interested in the $$ comparison of grid tied vs generator for top up 2. I am interested in the type of generation proposed (fuel type) 3. I think it's a week argument that the council can say generators are not allowed cause the reflection from solar panels might blind a plane EDIT: I have also now learned via this forum that there could be substantial development costs associated with a grid connection. Hence this could make the $$ comparison even more favourable towards generation - those are not expenses I had considered. |
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