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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 17:31:19 GMT 12
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Post by dutyfree on Jul 13, 2022 22:46:18 GMT 12
If you have an existing electrical connection, say for a house and you want to achieve the same effective security of supply and quantity (peak and energy) then going off grid will be expensive (you will need storage). If you want to be very active in your consumption decisions, what you use when, buy energy efficient consumption appliances and use other sources, wetback, solar water heating etc, then you can close the gap to it being economic. Note you can save power through efficiency and be grid connected e.g. LED bulbs etc
If you require a new connection, are distant from the existing distribution system then your new connection will be expensive. This is especially true if the available capacity is fully utilised. In this case being off grid may well payoff. This is especially true of rural areas.
If you are a developer and you want to own and run an embedded network, for example in a shopping mall, you can arbitrage the lines charges. At the mall connection you have a large commercial connection. In the mall you have shops with their own meters. So you pay one rate to the lines company and bill the shops a different rate. You can do this in other areas too, say an industrial park.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 31, 2023 20:21:48 GMT 12
resurrecting this thread I see my home region ( North Rodney) is having its second outage in less than a week. Seems to becoming more prevalent which will motivate ne to get on with a standby installation when I get home  doing a little research I have found there are now some reasonably priced 1kW variable speed water pumps available. The beauty of these is they do not need the inrush current, anywhere between 4-10x operating current, to start. So would look at changing at out the existing house pump So running the fridge off a battery and inverter with an occasional recharge (plus maybe a couple of solar panels), I could keep the house going on a load managed basis with a 2.5 kVA petrol generator or to leave most gear connected using a 5kVA petrol/diesel unit. Diesel is more preferable as it does not have the long term storage issues of petrol and I have a ready reserve of around 300 litres sitting in CZ fuel tanks. Will update later in the year when I make all this happen |
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Post by fish on Jul 31, 2023 20:26:23 GMT 12
resurrecting this thread I see my home region ( North Rodney) is having its second outage in less than a week. Seems to becoming more prevalent which will motivate ne to get on with a standby installation when I get home View Attachmentdoing a little research I have found there are now some reasonably priced 1kW variable speed water pumps available. The beauty of these is they do not need the inrush current, anywhere between 4-10x operating current, to start. So would look at changing at out the existing house pump So running the fridge off a battery and inverter with an occasional recharge (plus maybe a couple of solar panels), I could keep the house going on a load managed basis with a 2.5 kVA petrol generator or to leave most gear connected using a 5kVA petrol/diesel unit. Diesel is more preferable as it does not have the long term storage issues of petrol and I have a ready reserve of around 300 litres sitting in CZ fuel tanks. Will update later in the year when I make all this happen Tell me about those 1kW variable speed water pumps CZ. I've been pondering a solution to keep my household water pump going sans mains power, and one of the technical issues is always the start up current. Is the right word a high impedence load? Not well suited to the common or garden variety inverter or generator. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jul 31, 2023 21:27:08 GMT 12
resurrecting this thread I see my home region ( North Rodney) is having its second outage in less than a week. Seems to becoming more prevalent which will motivate ne to get on with a standby installation when I get home View Attachmentdoing a little research I have found there are now some reasonably priced 1kW variable speed water pumps available. The beauty of these is they do not need the inrush current, anywhere between 4-10x operating current, to start. So would look at changing at out the existing house pump So running the fridge off a battery and inverter with an occasional recharge (plus maybe a couple of solar panels), I could keep the house going on a load managed basis with a 2.5 kVA petrol generator or to leave most gear connected using a 5kVA petrol/diesel unit. Diesel is more preferable as it does not have the long term storage issues of petrol and I have a ready reserve of around 300 litres sitting in CZ fuel tanks. Will update later in the year when I make all this happen Tell me about those 1kW variable speed water pumps CZ. I've been pondering a solution to keep my household water pump going sans mains power, and one of the technical issues is always the start up current. Is the right word a high impedence load? Not well suited to the common or garden variety inverter or generator. here you go Fish, this is the one I am looking at pumpsonline.co.nz/collections/off-grid/products/trevoli-vs203-variable-speed-multistage-pump-for-large-homea 2kVA genset (or 2kW inverter but the current draw would be 150+ amps) would run this easily |
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Post by DuckMaster on Jul 31, 2023 21:58:48 GMT 12
resurrecting this thread I see my home region ( North Rodney) is having its second outage in less than a week. Seems to becoming more prevalent which will motivate ne to get on with a standby installation when I get home View Attachmentdoing a little research I have found there are now some reasonably priced 1kW variable speed water pumps available. The beauty of these is they do not need the inrush current, anywhere between 4-10x operating current, to start. So would look at changing at out the existing house pump So running the fridge off a battery and inverter with an occasional recharge (plus maybe a couple of solar panels), I could keep the house going on a load managed basis with a 2.5 kVA petrol generator or to leave most gear connected using a 5kVA petrol/diesel unit. Diesel is more preferable as it does not have the long term storage issues of petrol and I have a ready reserve of around 300 litres sitting in CZ fuel tanks. Will update later in the year when I make all this happen Tell me about those 1kW variable speed water pumps CZ. I've been pondering a solution to keep my household water pump going sans mains power, and one of the technical issues is always the start up current. Is the right word a high impedence load? Not well suited to the common or garden variety inverter or generator. Get a soft starter. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_soft_starterHere's a cheap one I use on my table saw cause it kept blowing my already massively overload single garage plug  www.jaycar.co.nz/soft-start-kit-for-power-tools/p/KC5511 |
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Post by em on Aug 1, 2023 7:54:28 GMT 12
Tell me about those 1kW variable speed water pumps CZ. I've been pondering a solution to keep my household water pump going sans mains power, and one of the technical issues is always the start up current. Is the right word a high impedence load? Not well suited to the common or garden variety inverter or generator. here you go Fish, this is the one I am looking at pumpsonline.co.nz/collections/off-grid/products/trevoli-vs203-variable-speed-multistage-pump-for-large-homea 2kVA genset (or 2kW inverter but the current draw would be 150+ amps) would run this easily Wouldn’t a 12V pump be a more simple and cheaper solution ? Would need some inventive plumbing to have as backup to the main pump . We were going to go 12V but went for a 10k litre header tank on the hill instead . |
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Post by ComfortZone on Aug 1, 2023 9:04:34 GMT 12
Wouldn’t a 12V pump be a more simple and cheaper solution ? Would need some inventive plumbing to have as backup to the main pump . We were going to go 12V but went for a 10k litre header tank on the hill instead . A 12V pump is certainly an option, as I recall Chez GO30 is run on one. For standby use it would need to be placed in parallel with the existing pump and 2 x 2-way vales would be required. Would likely need a battery local to the pump which is a bit of a pain. I actually believe your header tank is the best option where possible. I have a rise behind my home where I could put a 1m3 tank which would be enough water for a couple of days at a time, then just fill with 30minutes pump operation. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Aug 1, 2023 9:07:48 GMT 12
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Post by em on Aug 1, 2023 9:48:22 GMT 12
Wouldn’t a 12V pump be a more simple and cheaper solution ? Would need some inventive plumbing to have as backup to the main pump . We were going to go 12V but went for a 10k litre header tank on the hill instead . A 12V pump is certainly an option, as I recall Chez GO30 is run on one. For standby use it would need to be placed in parallel with the existing pump and 2 x 2-way vales would be required. Would likely need a battery local to the pump which is a bit of a pain. I actually believe your header tank is the best option where possible. I have a rise behind my home where I could put a 1m3 tank which would be enough water for a couple of days at a time, then just fill with 30minutes pump operation. Yeah it works well and probably saves a heap of power .Not as grunty as a pump as there’s only an 8 meter head . After spending the weekend on the boat and loving the grunty showers I will probably put a 12V pump on the shower at home . |
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Post by DuckMaster on Aug 1, 2023 20:05:11 GMT 12
Yep it's discontinued. This was an example of what's available. Obviously not a suggestion to purchase cause it is discontinued I have one, assembled it myself and it is still going strong after 10+ yrs. |
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Post by GO30 on Aug 3, 2023 10:59:47 GMT 12
Wouldn’t a 12V pump be a more simple and cheaper solution ? Would need some inventive plumbing to have as backup to the main pump . We were going to go 12V but went for a 10k litre header tank on the hill instead . A 12V pump is certainly an option, as I recall Chez GO30 is run on one. For standby use it would need to be placed in parallel with the existing pump and 2 x 2-way vales would be required. Would likely need a battery local to the pump which is a bit of a pain. I actually believe your header tank is the best option where possible. I have a rise behind my home where I could put a 1m3 tank which would be enough water for a couple of days at a time, then just fill with 30minutes pump operation. Yeap. Our rural place runs off a 11lt/m Jabsco (or whatever brand L&B sell) 24v on demand pump as seen in many boats.
Water tank to pump to a $200 temp portable camping gas califont to the taps.
The califont runs off 1 D size battery to spark it and a 9kg gas bottle that I can't remember changing so lasts a long time, it only feeds that califont.
I'd like to up the flow rate to 25lt/m but the califont can't handle that pace. That flow rate is OK, just if you have long hair the Wa tells me. Watercare say they target 25lt/m as minimum. When the califont craps out, and it's lasting hugly more than I expected it is mounted outside, I'll go for a more domestic Rinni type one that can handle the higher flow. The Califont takes the water to 'the hot end of nicely warm' in mid winter, way to hot to handle in summer.
The house build is now in progress and I'm pretty sure we'll be looking at a header tank for that. We won't have huge head but I'll just run bigger pipes.
We have a few tanks in and I've build a manifold so I can task an individual or 2 or a collection to assorted tasks. In that is some 'by pass' options if needed as well as some limiting aspects i.e. one I'm using to water bovines will cease doing that when there is 1500lts left in the tank. I can use that 1500 with one turn of a tap but if I hit that limit I know I still have a fair whack but it's time to start watching usage, I just didn't want to wake up one day to find I've gone fully senile and didn't notice the tanks had run dry. When it dries up I have 2 more 4400lt tanks to go in to take all the excess water which will then all go to bovines and trees. It's easy enough to do and even buying quality gear it didn't cost much. I think my entire plumbing system has cost me about well less than a K inc the 2 biggest costs, the califont and the plyers to squeeze the fittings to the end of the pipes. Tanks excepted of course but they were cheap.
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Post by GO30 on Aug 3, 2023 11:22:37 GMT 12
If you have an existing electrical connection, say for a house and you want to achieve the same effective security of supply and quantity (peak and energy) then going off grid will be expensive (you will need storage). If you want to be very active in your consumption decisions, what you use when, buy energy efficient consumption appliances and use other sources, wetback, solar water heating etc, then you can close the gap to it being economic. Note you can save power through efficiency and be grid connected e.g. LED bulbs etc If you require a new connection, are distant from the existing distribution system then your new connection will be expensive. This is especially true if the available capacity is fully utilised. In this case being off grid may well payoff. This is especially true of rural areas. If you are a developer and you want to own and run an embedded network, for example in a shopping mall, you can arbitrage the lines charges. At the mall connection you have a large commercial connection. In the mall you have shops with their own meters. So you pay one rate to the lines company and bill the shops a different rate. You can do this in other areas too, say an industrial par The proposed development is being designed to run on solar so all LED lighting and lower wattage gear, there is a shed load of options out there now. It's looking like if each place has 3000W of panels and 10-12Kw of useable storage you'll be happy as a pig in pooh. That allows for a few days of crap sun. We have 4.8kw usable in rural and have never got close.
A week or so back I let loose with water blaster, microwave, vacuum cleaner being 3 thirsty suckers, through a inverter, while the normal also carried on, it was an intentional lets throw caution to the wind and see what this puppy can do moment. I saw the voltage dropped to 24.5 which is the first time we've seen it below 25v. The array went hard core and was banging out 18amps at 75V so close to maximum. We went into dark with the bank about 90%, by early mid morning it was chocker again. That's off 1560W of panels and mid winter on a OK but less than ideal pair of solar days.
So a normal 2-3 beddy town house built low consumption should have no need to be grid connected as long as the occupants are solar smart i.e try to use the thirsty gear in the mornings during the winter shitty period.
The cost of setting the systems up is looking to be a bit under 20K per place fully installed using good gear and a lithium modular power wall like storage. Each place will be totally isolated from the next so you are the master of your own destiny.
The big question I am having issues getting answer is will the council sign off on a not grid connected house in the burbs. There does seem to be a reluctance to say Yes or No or it is more likely I've run into the usual lack of willingness for a council womble to make a decision.
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Post by fish on Aug 3, 2023 12:16:54 GMT 12
The big question I am having issues getting answer is will the council sign off on a not grid connected house in the burbs. There does seem to be a reluctance to say Yes or No or it is more likely I've run into the usual lack of willingness for a council womble to make a decision.
What ever you do, do not expect anyone at Building Consents to apply logic to anything. If what ever you are doing hasn't been done 1,000 times before, then the issue will be an inability to make a decision. That, and sooner or later Vector's vested interest in getting revenue in perpetuity from the properties you want to sell may start coming into it. |
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Post by em on Aug 3, 2023 12:46:42 GMT 12
If you have an existing electrical connection, say for a house and you want to achieve the same effective security of supply and quantity (peak and energy) then going off grid will be expensive (you will need storage). If you want to be very active in your consumption decisions, what you use when, buy energy efficient consumption appliances and use other sources, wetback, solar water heating etc, then you can close the gap to it being economic. Note you can save power through efficiency and be grid connected e.g. LED bulbs etc If you require a new connection, are distant from the existing distribution system then your new connection will be expensive. This is especially true if the available capacity is fully utilised. In this case being off grid may well payoff. This is especially true of rural areas. If you are a developer and you want to own and run an embedded network, for example in a shopping mall, you can arbitrage the lines charges. At the mall connection you have a large commercial connection. In the mall you have shops with their own meters. So you pay one rate to the lines company and bill the shops a different rate. You can do this in other areas too, say an industrial par The proposed development is being designed to run on solar so all LED lighting and lower wattage gear, there is a shed load of options out there now. It's looking like if each place has 3000W of panels and 10-12Kw of useable storage you'll be happy as a pig in pooh. That allows for a few days of crap sun. We have 4.8kw usable in rural and have never got close.
A week or so back I let loose with water blaster, microwave, vacuum cleaner being 3 thirsty suckers, through a inverter, while the normal also carried on, it was an intentional lets throw caution to the wind and see what this puppy can do moment. I saw the voltage dropped to 24.5 which is the first time we've seen it below 25v. The array went hard core and was banging out 18amps at 75V so close to maximum. We went into dark with the bank about 90%, by early mid morning it was chocker again. That's off 1560W of panels and mid winter on a OK but less than ideal pair of solar days.
So a normal 2-3 beddy town house built low consumption should have no need to be grid connected as long as the occupants are solar smart i.e try to use the thirsty gear in the mornings during the winter shitty period.
The cost of setting the systems up is looking to be a bit under 20K per place fully installed using good gear and a lithium modular power wall like storage. Each place will be totally isolated from the next so you are the master of your own destiny.
The big question I am having issues getting answer is will the council sign off on a not grid connected house in the burbs. There does seem to be a reluctance to say Yes or No or it is more likely I've run into the usual lack of willingness for a council womble to make a decision.
In the wops all it needs is installer sign off and electrical cert …which should be the case in the city too but I guess that’s far too simple . |
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