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Post by armchairadmiral on Apr 12, 2023 8:18:09 GMT 12
3 Waters amounts to writing a bottomless cheque to maori elite for posterity. And once the money genie is out no government will get it back in. There is only one way to prevent this and that is to wipe the whole idea. And to think NZ used to worry about 'privatisation by filthy capitalists. Not to mention that maori won't pay for existing water assets like a filthy capitalist would. Water is free. We should only pay for treatment,distribution and delivery. Next up will be air to be paid for if this gets traction !
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Post by muzled on Apr 12, 2023 11:31:38 GMT 12
3 Waters amounts to writing a bottomless cheque to maori elite for posterity. It's worse than that. pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/04/07/graham-adams-what-hipkins-doesnt-want-to-tell-us-about-three-waters/In fact, Te Mana o te Wai statements aren’t an example of co-governance and shouldn’t be confused with it. They are edicts that hand direct control over water to iwi. For that reason, both Grant Robertson and Nanaia Mahuta have been able to state truthfully that co-governance doesn’t extend beyond the Regional Representative Groups to the “operational level” of Three Waters. What they have avoided saying is that Te Mana o te Wai statements kick in at the operational level and they give Māori an awful lot of power. So much, in fact, that the pseudonymous political analyst Thomas Cranmer has described the “unbridled power” they hand to iwi and hapū as “mind-boggling”. The statements are the dirty little secret within the Three Waters set-up that the government would much prefer the public didn’t understand, or even know enough about to question. One astonishing feature is their vast scope. They can include anything from promoting Māori employment and environmental protections to spiritual concerns and investment decisions. Even more astonishing is the fact that only iwi and hapū can issue them.
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Post by eri on Apr 13, 2023 12:35:36 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 12:47:17 GMT 12
Wow, what a joke. The most synical rebrand ever. 4 entities to 10, 2 yr delay in implementation, but exactly the same co-governance.
Ironically, I support the 10 entities, and there is a need for water reform. But there is no reason for co-governance. ACT did a very good meme forewarning of this yesterday. I'll see if I can re-post it.
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 12:48:09 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 14:24:39 GMT 12
This is really interesting.
If you ignore the co-governance BS, we have a much clearer picture of how the reforms will play out.
Aucklanders will fund the upgrades of the completed fucked Northland water networks, while the locals lay about on the dole. Noting Kaitaia had 2 weeks of water left the other summer.
Wellington Water will keep on doing exactly as it is doing (they are easily the best Water Authority in NZ, head and shoulders better than Watercare). They just have completed fucked assets to operate.
Christchurch will pay to upgrade the West Coast. Queenstown will pay to sort out Invercargill and the numerous small Southland community systems. Taranaki will look after Taranaki (almost logical) Tauranga's productive folk will fork out to fix Eastern Bay of Plenty's issues (think Opotiki, a shithole that should have been abandoned a century ago, built on the confluence of two rivers, flooding problems much?).
This is political genius by Chippy. Delay it by 2 years, so everyone looses energy to argue about it any more, change the name, so he can honestly say he "dropped 3 waters". Its a Cost of Living Crisis, so, look what we are doing "Affordable Water Reforms..." Tadaa!
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Post by muzled on Apr 13, 2023 14:28:03 GMT 12
This is really interesting. If you ignore the co-governance BS, we have a much clearer picture of how the reforms will play out. Aucklanders will fund the upgrades of the completed fucked Northland water networks, while the locals lay about on the dole. Noting Kaitaia had 2 weeks of water left the other summer. Wellington Water will keep on doing exactly as it is doing (they are easily the best Water Authority in NZ, head and shoulders better than Watercare). They just have completed fucked assets to operate. Christchurch will pay to upgrade the West Coast. Queenstown will pay to sort out Invercargill and the numerous small Southland community systems. Taranaki will look after Taranaki (almost logical) Tauranga's productive folk will fork out to fix Eastern Bay of Plenty's issues (think Opotiki, a shithole that should have been abandoned a century ago, built on the confluence of two rivers, flooding problems much?). This is political genius by Chippy. Delay it by 2 years, so everyone looses energy to argue about it any more, change the name, so he can honestly say he "dropped 3 waters". Its a Cost of Living Crisis, so, look what we are doing "Affordable Water Reforms..." Tadaa! The good news is that because he hasn't dropped the co-governance bullshit this has now become a massive election issue. The next set of polls will be interesting. If labour haven't dropped several points we can confirm that nuzild is a country of muppets. But given how stupendously tribal some people are they prob won't drop that much even though they should sink to minority level polling.
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Post by sloopjohnb on Apr 13, 2023 14:42:07 GMT 12
4 groups to ten groups by my calculation that's a 250% increase in the number of iwi personals. More in the troughs.
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3 waters
Apr 13, 2023 14:42:22 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by sloopjohnb on Apr 13, 2023 14:42:22 GMT 12
4 groups to ten groups by my calculation that's a 250% increase in the number of iwi personals. More in the troughs.
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 14:55:24 GMT 12
This is really interesting. If you ignore the co-governance BS, we have a much clearer picture of how the reforms will play out. Aucklanders will fund the upgrades of the completed fucked Northland water networks, while the locals lay about on the dole. Noting Kaitaia had 2 weeks of water left the other summer. Wellington Water will keep on doing exactly as it is doing (they are easily the best Water Authority in NZ, head and shoulders better than Watercare). They just have completed fucked assets to operate. Christchurch will pay to upgrade the West Coast. Queenstown will pay to sort out Invercargill and the numerous small Southland community systems. Taranaki will look after Taranaki (almost logical) Tauranga's productive folk will fork out to fix Eastern Bay of Plenty's issues (think Opotiki, a shithole that should have been abandoned a century ago, built on the confluence of two rivers, flooding problems much?). This is political genius by Chippy. Delay it by 2 years, so everyone looses energy to argue about it any more, change the name, so he can honestly say he "dropped 3 waters". Its a Cost of Living Crisis, so, look what we are doing "Affordable Water Reforms..." Tadaa! The good news is that because he hasn't dropped the co-governance bullshit this has now become a massive election issue. The next set of polls will be interesting. If labour haven't dropped several points we can confirm that nuzild is a country of muppets. But given how stupendously tribal some people are they prob won't drop that much even though they should sink to minority level polling. Have you ever followed any of these govt MP's on FB? You should. Read the comments. People Love this shit. Basically, the Local Councils are so woke they wont give a shit about the co-governance. Give them the feeling they've been listened to, and they will lap it up. That, and what ever works for each Councillor's election cycle. Once the Council's opposition is removed, job done. No one gives a shit about what we think. But seriously, have a look on the comments section of Social Media. Half the country love this shit and lap it up. The other half are too busy working to read the detail, and will just see the headline that chippy dropped 3 waters...
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Post by muzled on Apr 13, 2023 15:08:00 GMT 12
Have you ever followed any of these govt MP's on FB? I'm happy to report I've saved myself from any politician supidity on FB.. I'm sure there are plenty of muppets on FB lapping up whatever they're fed, but overall they'll be a 'small' section of society. There will be just as many on the 'other side' lapping up what they're fed as well. My 2p - co-governance will cost the commies the election. My election wish - is for Chloe to lose Akl central and the gangrenes to get less than 5%.
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Post by eri on Apr 13, 2023 15:14:17 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 15:48:40 GMT 12
Mwhahaha This is political genius! Just blatantly say black is white. "No, no, there is no co-governance in the 10 waters reforms..." at least 50% of voters will believe him. Deniable plausibility 101
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 16:10:44 GMT 12
It's not co-governance, cause the Board of Directors govern the water entity, and the Directors will be Professionals (i.e. get paid lots of money). Just because un-elected Iwi have the same power as all Councils to appoint Directors does not make it co-governance. That would be having half the Board as Iwi ;-) Bugger-me, its election year...
Under the rework, a Regional Representative Group (RRG) will still be established for each entity. They will appoint a professional board for each entity and "provide strategic oversight and direction".
The RRGs will be a partnership between representatives of the councils whose infrastructure is being amalgamated and iwi/Māori. The Government says every territorial authority will be represented on an RRG, with an equal number of mana whenua representatives. his is appropriate, the Government says, as under te Tiriti o Waitangi, mana whenua have a right to participate in decisions relating to water services.
However, as RRGs won't have a role in the day-to-day governance or operation of the entities, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins argues this isn't co-governance.
"It's not co-governance and it wasn't co-governance. These entities will be governed by a skills-based board appointed for their knowledge and expertise around water and other issues," he told reporters.
"There will be regional advisory groups that will include representation from mana whenua and, of course, representation from every local council. There will be an opportunity for people to have a say within local communities including mana whenua, in how their water is delivered and their priorities for water."
Hipkins said the Government previously had a discussion about adopting a "full co-governance model" but decided against it.
"The governance model for these entities is a professional governance model as we have for many other public service entities. They will have to take advice from the representative groups, but ultimately, the board will be responsible for governing the water entities."
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 16:12:18 GMT 12
Anyone know if Te-Mana-O-Te-Wai statements are still in play?
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