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Post by em on Sept 24, 2022 9:16:24 GMT 12
The problem with that theory is it's the thin end of the wedge. .Once you've lost it to maori you'll never get it back without huge cost. They're not stupid and they're playing the long game while the sickly white liberals are in command along with a communist doctrine. Plus it's only 3% or so of maori who are creaming it. Willie Jackson et al. Sadly I have to agree with the 'stop cogovernance' outfit. NZ is at the point of no return. 10% make it happen,10% stop it happening and 80% wonder what happened.....or something like that Well that’s why a high level of scrutiny would have to applied to any customary take . I’m advocating the entire gulf gets handed to Māori only |
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Post by fish on Sept 24, 2022 11:52:42 GMT 12
To be absolutely brutally honest , you won’t see many Māori way out the back in a 300k tinny with 1k of petrol onboard , sidescanning for the spawning schools . I would be ok for customary take in a no fish zone IF there was a higher level of scrutiny applied to the certificates . Imagine if something had been implemented 20 years ago ? The place would be humming again and this guy would be making tv shows again about catching snapper off the rocks at mission bay . www.enl.co.nz/blogs/tips/tipsI'm not sure what you base the first statement on. All the people of Maori descent I know are not short of cash. But then they don't overtly identify as poor downtrodden colonised people. They just get on with life. Most are way more than 50% of european descent anyway, which brings up the distasteful argument of 'how Maori are you?' The next question is, how hard is it to sign up to a Marae? You need to get a membership of an Iwi Trust. My Father and his partner have one. What is to stop you going on the Maori electoral role? The system, any system, is hugely open to corruption. If I had a $300k tinny, I'd certainly have the means to grease some palms so I can use it in the target rich spots. Customary certificates are not audited. Look at the issues we have controlling the quota system and managing rorting of that. I do agree with the need for visibility and rigour about customary permits. But it is better still to not have loopholes and especially not race based loopholes / rules. Half my inlaws feasted on cray and paua caught under customary rules when down in Southland last year for the Bert Monroe challenge. Iwi hosted some 'event' for the visiting bikers. Apparently koha isn't commercial... The nub of the issue is that the govt can't get tighter fishing rules in if they don't get the tribes onboard. And the tribes want everyone else to make the sacrifices, and not themselves. Absolutely they are playing the long game. Looking at the proposal at a wider context, all of the HPA's appear to target rocky coastlines almost exclusively. This is the prime areas for spear fishing. Rocky & reef areas. The areas that are being nailed by bottom trawling aren't being restricted. Yes they are introducing these SMA's - protecting the seafloor, like in Tiri channel, places where trawlers don't operate. It makes the rules a nonsense. In effect, the recreational fisho's are making the sacrifice, commercial aren't impacted, and the tribes aren't impacted. Not the best of solutions. Currently I am reluctant to support this proposal. If bottom trawling were banned across the whole Gulf I would, in addition to much tighter and visible rules on customary take. |
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Post by fish on Sept 24, 2022 11:59:22 GMT 12
PS, Can you guys imagine trying to discuss this topic on crew.org?
How do you discuss race based laws and policies on a forum than bans any discussion of race?
What a fucking shambles.
And a topic that is deeply important. Not just some personal gripe or political perspective.
I know a few of you guys frequent that other place, do they even have a thread on the topic? Or are they all sitting around with gag tape over their mouths and only discussing the technical merits of NMEA converters or some other technically obscure topic?
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Post by em on Sept 24, 2022 12:05:22 GMT 12
PS, Can you guys imagine trying to discuss this topic on crew.org? How do you discuss race based laws and policies on a forum than bans any discussion of race? What a fucking shambles. And a topic that is deeply important. Not just some personal gripe or political perspective. I know a few of you guys frequent that other place, do they even have a thread on the topic? Or are they all sitting around with gag tape over their mouths and only discussing the technical merits of NMEA converters or some other technically obscure topic? Quite Interesting that bulk of them keep their boats at ghm or the creek around the corner and a fair number of the posters here do too . Do you have any awkward encounters ? |
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Post by fish on Sept 24, 2022 12:26:19 GMT 12
PS, Can you guys imagine trying to discuss this topic on crew.org? How do you discuss race based laws and policies on a forum than bans any discussion of race? What a fucking shambles. And a topic that is deeply important. Not just some personal gripe or political perspective. I know a few of you guys frequent that other place, do they even have a thread on the topic? Or are they all sitting around with gag tape over their mouths and only discussing the technical merits of NMEA converters or some other technically obscure topic? Quite Interesting that bulk of them keep their boats at ghm or the creek around the corner and a fair number of the posters here do too . Do you have any awkward encounters ? Not at all. I'm more than happy to disagree with peoples world view or beliefs but still have conversations and banter with them. Last thing I want to do is live in an echo chamber. I keep in touch with one, it was his $4k prop I recovered the other day free diving in the river. We still disagree about vaccines, which is a little ironic. He is as sick as a dog with lung issues and got nailed by covid, but at the same time strongly believes he'd be dead if it weren't for the vaccine. I'm pleased that he believes the jab was of benefit to him. He is the only person I know that thinks that way (and I told him that). But at the same time, I can't get past how sick he is. We enjoy talking boats and marine stuff. Our views on politics and many other things are actually fairly closely aligned. Just not the jab. It is a bit of an indication about how divisive the mandate issue is across our society. Extremely sad how it all transpired. I guess for me, I'm happy to argue with you, but don't take it personally, and happy to agree on other things. I'm not religious like that. PS, I've lurked over there occasionally, but the threads and conversations seem so stayed and constrained, I've got no interest in it. I'd far rather put my time and effort into discussing things fully and freely here. The place seems like a shadow of its former self. |
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Post by em on Sept 24, 2022 12:31:02 GMT 12
To be absolutely brutally honest , you won’t see many Māori way out the back in a 300k tinny with 1k of petrol onboard , sidescanning for the spawning schools . I would be ok for customary take in a no fish zone IF there was a higher level of scrutiny applied to the certificates . Imagine if something had been implemented 20 years ago ? The place would be humming again and this guy would be making tv shows again about catching snapper off the rocks at mission bay . www.enl.co.nz/blogs/tips/tipsI'm not sure what you base the first statement on. All the people of Maori descent I know are not short of cash. But then they don't overtly identify as poor downtrodden colonised people. They just get on with life. Most are way more than 50% of european descent anyway, which brings up the distasteful argument of 'how Maori are you?' The next question is, how hard is it to sign up to a Marae? You need to get a membership of an Iwi Trust. My Father and his partner have one. What is to stop you going on the Maori electoral role? The system, any system, is hugely open to corruption. If I had a $300k tinny, I'd certainly have the means to grease some palms so I can use it in the target rich spots. Customary certificates are not audited. Look at the issues we have controlling the quota system and managing rorting of that. I do agree with the need for visibility and rigour about customary permits. But it is better still to not have loopholes and especially not race based loopholes / rules. Half my inlaws feasted on cray and paua caught under customary rules when down in Southland last year for the Bert Monroe challenge. Iwi hosted some 'event' for the visiting bikers. Apparently koha isn't commercial... The nub of the issue is that the govt can't get tighter fishing rules in if they don't get the tribes onboard. And the tribes want everyone else to make the sacrifices, and not themselves. Absolutely they are playing the long game. Looking at the proposal at a wider context, all of the HPA's appear to target rocky coastlines almost exclusively. This is the prime areas for spear fishing. Rocky & reef areas. The areas that are being nailed by bottom trawling aren't being restricted. Yes they are introducing these SMA's - protecting the seafloor, like in Tiri channel, places where trawlers don't operate. It makes the rules a nonsense. In effect, the recreational fisho's are making the sacrifice, commercial aren't impacted, and the tribes aren't impacted. Not the best of solutions. Currently I am reluctant to support this proposal. If bottom trawling were banned across the whole Gulf I would, in addition to much tighter and visible rules on customary take. I base my statement on what I’ve seen with my own eyes . It might be a psyche thing that Māori with enough money to buy a tricked out fish hunter don’t take that path . Young to middle aged white blokes with plenty of folding generally go to town and jam everything they possibly can into a very expensive small boat . In northland the iwi taking of seafood is largely shore based gathering and close to shore diving . My assumption is it’s all about the food aspect of it as opposed to having a good day out with your mates yahooing and discussing the merits of different brands of fish finder or outboard motor over a beer or a dozen . So to summarise white folk mostly do it for pleasure with the added bonus of getting some fish . Māori folk do it for getting a feed as they have done for centuries and probably get the same dopamine glow HT gets when he supplies his neighbours with his excess snapper |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2022 13:52:18 GMT 12
To be absolutely brutally honest , you won’t see many Māori way out the back in a 300k tinny with 1k of petrol onboard , sidescanning for the spawning schools . I would be ok for customary take in a no fish zone IF there was a higher level of scrutiny applied to the certificates . Imagine if something had been implemented 20 years ago ? The place would be humming again and this guy would be making tv shows again about catching snapper off the rocks at mission bay . www.enl.co.nz/blogs/tips/tipsBut you can during Febuary/March in the evening/Dawn |
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Post by GO30 on Sept 25, 2022 12:54:09 GMT 12
Quite Interesting that bulk of them keep their boats at ghm or the creek around the corner and a fair number of the posters here do too . Do you have any awkward encounters ? Not at all. I'm more than happy to disagree with peoples world view or beliefs but still have conversations and banter with them. Last thing I want to do is live in an echo chamber. I agree with the Fishy fellow. Living in a echo chamber would be horrible*
I'm OK with someone who thinks differently then me even if they are wrong most of the time, I must be I married her.
* - which is why I'm finding general chat harder to look at. In the words of a recently departed wise, hot and vocally spectacular chick, it's a room that's developing an echo. Just saying.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 15:01:36 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Oct 19, 2022 18:30:17 GMT 12
As the price of food goes up, and the fart tax makes meat more expensive, we are going to get a lot more of this poaching... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 19:11:00 GMT 12
As the price of food goes up, and the fart tax makes meat more expensive, we are going to get a lot more of this poaching... one was on bail for fishary crimes.jail next?? |
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Post by fish on Oct 19, 2022 19:34:24 GMT 12
As the price of food goes up, and the fart tax makes meat more expensive, we are going to get a lot more of this poaching... one was on bail for fishary crimes.jail next?? Mwhahahaha, jail? Mwahahahaha What planet are you on? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 2:22:13 GMT 12
one was on bail for fishary crimes.jail next?? Mwhahahaha, jail? Mwahahahaha What planet are you on? by all accounts on a planet with no justice,as I found out over there,join hands and sing kumbaya |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 16:10:01 GMT 12
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Post by em on Oct 25, 2022 16:40:05 GMT 12
Sounded pretty reasonable to me ? MPI are a bit slow to action and they claim to only educate but hope to have 3 fisheries officers by summer . Didn’t see any mention of boarding ? |
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