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Post by muzled on Dec 11, 2023 6:56:39 GMT 12
Good riddance to nuzlds most partisan hopeless bureaucrat! www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/12/goldsmith_gets_it.htmlnewstalkzb reports:
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has said he won't re-appoint Chief human rights Commissioner paul hunt.
Goldsmith told heather du plessis-allan that he wants to see a Human Rights Commissioner โwho's really focused on fundamental human rights such as free speech, freedom of expression and equal voting.A Human Rights Commissioner who actually advocates for freedom of expression and equality of suffrage โ that would be a wonderful thing. |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 11, 2023 8:16:22 GMT 12
Blaa blaa blaa, irrelevant as that has nothing to do with the question you're going to lengths to dodge.
I ask yet again, what is the referendum question and what about it has you so scared?
It's not about being afraid of the question. It's that's the question shouldn't be asked. In the 1970s no one was afraid of a question on abortion. But the government knew that the question shouldn't be asked and no referendum took place. There are some questions which are appropriate for the people, like which flag should we have, or should we have mmp. There are others which need to be answered by experts. So in your words as you are unable to understand others - What the question shouldn't be asked?
Either you know the question and offering an opinion or you don't know the question and you are just rabbiting the muppets. There is of course a 3rd option, you're a muppet as well but you do come across far more as one of the political drones send out to seed disinformation and untruths.
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Post by OLD ROPE ๐ on Dec 11, 2023 8:29:49 GMT 12
G Spot, muck master is not interested in unity, democracy, or what New Zealnders want!
He's soley about, minority, socialism, costs, and wokeness and deviseness
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Post by sabre on Dec 11, 2023 8:37:20 GMT 12
It's not about being afraid of the question. It's that's the question shouldn't be asked. In the 1970s no one was afraid of a question on abortion. But the government knew that the question shouldn't be asked and no referendum took place.ย There are some questions which are appropriate for the people, like which flag should we have, or should we have mmp. There are others which need to be answered by experts. So in your words as you are unable to understand others - What the question shouldn't be asked?
but you do come across far more as one of the political drones send out to seed disinformation and untruths.
That is 100% what he,it,they,them is |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 11, 2023 9:00:37 GMT 12
It's not about being afraid of the question. It's that's the question shouldn't be asked. In the 1970s no one was afraid of a question on abortion. But the government knew that the question shouldn't be asked and no referendum took place. There are some questions which are appropriate for the people, like which flag should we have, or should we have mmp. There are others which need to be answered by experts. So in your words as you are unable to understand others - What the question shouldn't be asked?
Either you know the question and offering an opinion or you don't know the question and you are just rabbiting the muppets. There is of course a 3rd option, you're a muppet as well but you do come across far more as one of the political drones send out to seed disinformation and untruths.
The referendum question would be something along the lines of should the proposed treaty principles bill become legislation. Changing our constitutional law is a complex and divisive issue that the people aren't qualified to answer. Think of the two constitutional law referendum types we've had in the past. How uncomplicated and simple have they been...? (And some people still couldn't understand what they were voting for). |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 11, 2023 9:00:42 GMT 12
The Spinoff self proclaims itself as being 'hard left' and the only other MSM which self proclaims to be even harder left is Stuff.
Personally I'd have the Spinoff as far more left than Stuff even if it is very left.
Sadly the MSM have packed a shitty due to Winstone so it looks like the current Govt will suffer the same as Trump, a MSM that hates the Govt with a passion and will go to great lengths to try and smash it by any means it can be they fair or foul.
A few months back there was a thing that had combined NZ, Aussie and I think it was the UK studies into political leanings of the MSM and public. All were asked 'Where do you feel you fit on this scale?' -
Hard left, Left, Centre, Right, Hard right
82% self identified as left or hard left.
They asked a total of 5 or 6000 people off the street the same question
44% self identified as Right or Hard right.
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Post by fish on Dec 11, 2023 9:05:27 GMT 12
This article, and the report it refers to are highly relevant to this current debate. The report came out yesterday I think. 2000 pages. On Ngapuhi's treaty claim (basically). Note that even Chloe was complimenting David Seymour on discussing the matter respectfully (I believe the reference was in terms of actions now and in the future). Key points: The report into extensive Treaty breaches against Ngฤpuhi was presented to iwi in Northland over the weekend. It recommends all Crown-owned land in Northland be returned to Mฤori, economic compensation, an apology from the Crown, and for the Crown to enter talks about reworking New Zealand's constitutional framework. The report found Ngฤpuhi never agreed to give authority to the New Zealand Government and allow it to govern them, rather Pฤkehฤ and Mฤori governed their own people. Appearing later in the programme, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said the Government will have a "good look" at the 2000-page report. However, he said his Government is "not up for" creating two sovereign states. "We are one sovereign state in this country. We're not two sovereign states and that's something that's been a belief for a long period of time and on that basis that we commenced treaty settlements, for example, 40 years ago," he said. "What we do want to do with Ngฤpuhi is actually work with them when they're ready to close out treaty settlements. "It's important now that we kick on, close out the remaining treaty settlements and move forward." Note the spin from Newshub, quoting Seymour that "That wont happen", but when you read the article, he is actual discussing pragmatic version of co-governance for specific situations - as opposed to two separate sovereign states. www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/david-seymour-rules-out-co-governance-constitutional-transformation-after-landmark-waitangi-tribunal-report-on-treaty-breaches-against-ng-puhi.html |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 11, 2023 9:16:14 GMT 12
G Spot, muck master is not interested in unity, democracy, or what New Zealnders want! He's soley about, minority, socialism, costs, and wokeness and deviseness A constitutional law change that magically, overnight, defines what the treaty is or isn't, is going to achieve absolutely nothing for unity. |
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Post by fish on Dec 11, 2023 9:26:22 GMT 12
G Spot, muck master is not interested in unity, democracy, or what New Zealnders want! He's soley about, minority, socialism, costs, and wokeness and deviseness A constitutional law change that magically, overnight, defines what the treaty is or isn't, is going to achieve absolutely nothing for unity. No, it wont. (That is me agreeing with you btw) But the process preceding a referendum might. The adult discussion around it. That is what is needed. You will note that this move to have a referendum is a direct result of Labour ambushing the country with co-governance in everything. There was no discussion about that. Labour did not campaign on it. The truth is Labour went to great length to hide the co-governance provisions from the public. That is what has caused the division. Having constitutional change foisted on us in a 'bait and switch'. Labour were sneaking through massive constitutional change. But following that, you think we shouldn't have a public debate on it? At least ACT have had the common decency to state this as a policy and campaign on it. And while a referendum itself may not be the ideal mechanism, the overall guts of it is that we need to have a discussion about it. Bit hard to campaign saying "we're going to have a discussion", sounds like a cup of tea and talk of the weather. |
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Post by OLD ROPE ๐ on Dec 11, 2023 10:00:56 GMT 12
Open and transparent = Nactfirst.
Closed snd 100% opaque = Liarbormargreen
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Post by harrytom on Dec 11, 2023 10:01:42 GMT 12
Luxon/Nats really missed the boat by going in to coalition with act/nzf. Should of grown a pair and bowed down to the minor partners instead said we are going back to the pols. I think NZF would out and act further reduced and Nats would of got a better result.
Still to met anyone who voted NZF,did think about it but passed
I do wonder about Luxon time at AirNZ,Leaves and 6 months later govt bails them out saying due to covid.Now where did all that profit go too or did Luxon cover the books up? Seems obvious now his Finance Minister has no idea on how to the books. She looked at them befote election now acts surprised that she needs to find other ways to fund the promised tax cuts.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 11, 2023 11:18:01 GMT 12
A constitutional law change that magically, overnight, defines what the treaty is or isn't, is going to achieve absolutely nothing for unity. No, it wont. (That is me agreeing with you btw) But the process preceding a referendum might. The adult discussion around it. That is what is needed. You will note that this move to have a referendum is a direct result of Labour ambushing the country with co-governance in everything. There was no discussion about that. Labour did not campaign on it. The truth is Labour went to great length to hide the co-governance provisions from the public. That is what has caused the division. Having constitutional change foisted on us in a 'bait and switch'. Labour were sneaking through massive constitutional change. But following that, you think we shouldn't have a public debate on it? At least ACT have had the common decency to state this as a policy and campaign on it. And while a referendum itself may not be the ideal mechanism, the overall guts of it is that we need to have a discussion about it. Bit hard to campaign saying "we're going to have a discussion", sounds like a cup of tea and talk of the weather. The current treaty principals have been being worked on by experts since the 70s. They come from judgements, laws, the Waitangi tribunal and the crown. I am not convinced that the general public is in a position of expertise to debate the changing of treaty principles. I guess that the quality of the public responses that the select committee receive on the new bill during consultation will prove that one way or another... |
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Post by muzled on Dec 11, 2023 11:57:26 GMT 12
Good to see JT being open and transparent. Same as he was when he stole $300K from the waiparera (sp?) trust to fund the maori party camppaign. It does appear that they've uncovered a journalist with some integrity though! |
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Post by eri on Dec 11, 2023 12:18:36 GMT 12
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 11, 2023 13:33:38 GMT 12
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