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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 16, 2023 22:38:04 GMT 12
CZ you’re missing the point! You said: “The only justification for another election under the MMP system is if neither National or Labour could form a government.“ Well that’s what has happened. The system has delivered a result whereby nobody can form a government!!! Which leaves only 2 options: 1. A re-election to give voters a 2nd chance to try again. 2. A circus of second-guessing and back-room deals between God knows which minor parties resulting in a shit-show government which nobody would ever have voted for. I would prefer #1 and I think it’s bollocks that the system expects the electorate to accept #2. You’re wrong about Brexit btw. Many voters said they voted “Leave” on the day simply to signal their protest against uncontrolled rampant immigration into the UK. But they didn’t really want to leave Europe in order to stop the immigration - that was just a means to an end. And so if they could vote again tomorrow they would change their vote to remain in Europe. Fogg, the Electoral commission has not even finished counting the votes. Furthermore your expectation that a second election would somehow yield an absolute majority for one party is bollocks, it is not going to happen. You did not address my question if your second election was held and there was not your preferred outcome, then what?? Like it or not we not living in a FPP electoral system any more. For better or worse the electorate want the minor parties to have some say in how the country is run. I am the first to agree that it is crazy that Winston's tail was able to wag the dog in 2017 and I certainly believe that is a reform that is required. By the way, just about every European country apart from UK works under some form of MMP system so I guess in your blinkered view they are also 3rd world. As far as the Brexit vote goes, for sure people wanted immigration to be controlled, but you are advocating the "half pregnant" solution, which was never going to fly. UK is either in or out because the EU have completely breached the original intent of the Common Market, which made perfect sense, but they have no intention of backing off from their complete intrusion into people's lives |
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Post by muzled on Oct 17, 2023 6:46:24 GMT 12
The "system" is working exactly as designed. Now Winston "broke" convention and went with the smaller party and Jacinda. Blame him for that not the system. I blame the system for allowing that travesty of democracy last time and this circus this time. I don’t like Winston but he just worked the system to his advantage. Which proves my point. The system is as fucked as NZ. It's not a travesty of democracy, it's a reflection of democracy. A lot of people voted for winstonefirst, and in return he gets to have a say on behalf of those voters. ' You might not like it, (and I might not either), but that is the people having their voice heard. A travesty of democracy is a system where a govt has a majority, and pushes through a bunch of shit they never talked about, let alone campaigned on. But you lived here for the last three years just like the rest of us, so I'm sure you're more than aware of the pitfalls of outright majority govts. My prediction is - the sun will still come up tomorrow. Sounds like you're talking yourself into the narrative that it'll be different if you watch it come up from a different country. You might be right, but I'd not be holding my breath... |
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Post by eri on Oct 17, 2023 7:06:06 GMT 12
apparently winston is looking fo a deal that would last several terms....
while that's technically good as it probably means winstone would ask for everything right away, and a stable 3 party right-block would help balance the 3 party left-block
but i'm not sure anyone has ever been able to put up with him for that long
maybe that's to allow him to retire and bring in shane jones?
jones would be easier to work with
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Post by Fogg on Oct 17, 2023 16:19:28 GMT 12
I concede defeat.
And revert to my original state of not caring any more.
And take comfort that Part 1 of my plan to exit NZ has been completed 😊
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Post by muzled on Oct 17, 2023 17:21:21 GMT 12
I concede defeat. And revert to my original state of not caring any more. And take comfort that Part 1 of my plan to exit NZ has been completed 😊 Not caring too much is better for ones mental health I've concluded. Hope you're not taking your forum with you when you leave...  |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 17, 2023 17:33:13 GMT 12
I concede defeat. And revert to my original state of not caring any more. And take comfort that Part 1 of my plan to exit NZ has been completed 😊 Not caring too much is better for ones mental health I've concluded. Hope you're not taking your forum with you when you leave... Of course not! It’s a small but cool little place that obviously has appeal to a small niche of boaties so v happy to keep it going! And anyway the plan is divide time in & out of NZ so not disconnected altogether. |
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Post by harrytom on Oct 17, 2023 19:00:02 GMT 12
I concede defeat. And revert to my original state of not caring any more. And take comfort that Part 1 of my plan to exit NZ has been completed 😊 So would you of stayed if Labour had won?? If not your decision was made before the outcome of the election. |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 17, 2023 19:20:19 GMT 12
Decision was made about a year ago. When I realised NZ is in such a steep nosedive that even the most amazing Govt of your dreams would take a decade to turn things around.
By which time the rest of the world will have left NZ behind.
And remember I’ve got young kids and I don’t want them to spend the next decade growing up in average-ness with a sub-standard education. Yes I can fix the school problem by enrolling into private school (which we’ve done) but that’s missing the point about wider society in NZ having lost its way.
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Post by eri on Oct 17, 2023 20:10:30 GMT 12
the longer your time horizon
the more organised you have to be
nat/act/nz1st may govern this time but there is a clear signal that almost half of nz thinks they can bludge their way to prosperity by supporting increased taxation of anyone that earns more than they do
i don't think that works
i think all the evidence we have is that killing and eating the golden goose is stupidly short therm thinking
but it doesn't matter what i think
enough people want to believe that money is "free" if it can be taken from others
...
this election will provide a 3? year bounce in the nz$ and nz commodities
so if i'm thinking more than 10 years in the future
it would be wise to use this 3/6/9 years to diversify/hedge etc
to reduce the families exposure to the future asset striping/taxation
planned for the productive
by the un-productive
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Post by Fogg on Oct 17, 2023 20:57:20 GMT 12
If you force me to summarise my reasons for wanting out of NZ, it comes down to 2 core problems (both of which could take a generation to fix):
1. Productivity: aka “laziness”. You know, expecting everything now, I’m doing my customers a favour by serving them, good enough is good enough etc etc etc. In other words the reason Amazon abandoned NZ for filming the LOTR series because the international film crews found their kiwi colleagues were too lazy / expensive / incompetent / entitled.
2. In-fighting: NZ society is now obsessed with how the pie should be sliced up & shared around. Instead of just getting on with creating a bigger pie.
I don’t want my kids to grow up with this world view.
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Post by harrytom on Oct 17, 2023 22:08:55 GMT 12
If you force me to summarise my reasons for wanting out of NZ, it comes down to 2 core problems (both of which could take a generation to fix): 1. Productivity: aka “laziness”. You know, expecting everything now, I’m doing my customers a favour by serving them, good enough is good enough etc etc etc. In other words the reason Amazon abandoned NZ for filming the LOTR series because the international film crews found their kiwi colleagues were too lazy / expensive / incompetent / entitled. 2. In-fighting: NZ society is now obsessed with how the pie should be sliced up & shared around. Instead of just getting on with creating a bigger pie. I don’t want my kids to grow up with this world view. Employment Laziness is a easy fix. Hmm imo it is. Your fit heres a job the your capable of.Oh you dont want it.Hmm no benefit and by the way your off scrub cutting,like the old pep scheme of the early 80s. Education system is not broken its Whether the child wants to succeed or not.Both mine went to decial 3 schools. one got Dux the other runner up.One has his masters in Megatronics while the other is persuing a medical career in Human science. Both went to school and chose not to associate with their peers. Straight home and studied. Bit of guidance from Mum and I but certainly no pressure. The mega student at 23 has no student loan and $75k in his bank through studying and working hard. Comes down to personnel discipline. Oh well Fogg good luck in your ventures and childrens futures. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 18, 2023 12:08:41 GMT 12
Not caring too much is better for ones mental health I've concluded. Hope you're not taking your forum with you when you leave... Of course not! It’s a small but cool little place that obviously has appeal to a small niche of boaties so v happy to keep it going! And anyway the plan is divide time in & out of NZ so not disconnected altogether. so are you still thinking offshore next year? Was just chatting with Fusio and your name came up. |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 19, 2023 8:30:55 GMT 12
Of course not! It’s a small but cool little place that obviously has appeal to a small niche of boaties so v happy to keep it going! And anyway the plan is divide time in & out of NZ so not disconnected altogether. so are you still thinking offshore next year? Was just chatting with Fusio and your name came up. Undecided. This year’s pretty average weather in the islands makes me question the effort as opposed to heading to Europe for their summer for a few months instead. |
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Post by muzled on Oct 19, 2023 9:43:59 GMT 12
so are you still thinking offshore next year? Was just chatting with Fusio and your name came up. Undecided. This year’s pretty average weather in the islands makes me question the effort as opposed to heading to Europe for their summer for a few months instead. So many first world problems Fogg...  I look forward to hearing how the 'nomadic' (for want of a better word) lifestyle goes. |
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Post by Hugh Jorgan on Nov 18, 2023 8:57:06 GMT 12
Sorry but I’m just being brutally honest and calling it here. I believe you can measure the quality of a country by its electoral system and what are seeing here is diagnostic of a failed state. When I first arrived here 20yrs ago I was attracted by a 2nd world country that was behaving like a 1st world country. Today we are a 1st world county behaving like a 3rd world country. WE are 3rd wotld. Education Health Crime Racial seperation... Per population we have the highest social housing numbers than any other country. AND DONT MENTION POVERTY |
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