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ukraine
Mar 12, 2022 9:10:01 GMT 12
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Post by GO30 on Mar 12, 2022 9:10:01 GMT 12
Very tricky to judge accurately with the highly bias and dodgy as media but if I was Putin I think Id be trying to find a way out without looking a even bigger twat, of there even is a way.
Reports do suggest Putin expected some resistance but nothing like what appears to be happening.
If reports are true losing 3 top generals won't be going down well.
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Post by fish on Mar 12, 2022 10:17:21 GMT 12
Yes, it is hard to filter the propaganda. The drone footage of the Russian tank column getting ambushed was very good though. CNN had the best coverage, including closeup footage of the burning tanks afterwards. I think the main thing with that footage is you see that tanks coming up the road, getting blown up, then the remaining tanks pegging it back down the road. Something that has been fascinating me is the ease of use and availability of MANPADS - Man portable air defense systems. In short, Javelins and Stingers. Guided missiles that can be carried by a man, and launched off the shoulder. So simple to use, you can use them after watching a youtube training video, about as complicated as fixing the washing machine (possibly more simple). Being man portable, they are incredibly simple to move around the country. Back of the family sedan, tractor, donkey, or just carry them on your shoulder. The Javelins have a range of 2,000m. Apparently the weakest point of the tanks are the top of the turret, so they have this firing mode that lands on the top of the turret. They have a double warhead, one exploders to bust through the turret, the second explodes inside the turret to set off their ammo sitting in a carousel loader. This is why the young Russian tank drivers have been building 'sun-shades' over their tanks. Scaffold poles and the likes with steel and sandbags, to try and protect them from top down Javelin attacks. To shoot these things, you shove a nicad style electric drill batter in the bottom, lock onto the target with a digital scope, choose direct hit or top down hit, take the safety off, press a button that spins up the rocket launcher motor (and activates an argon cooling system or something), then, pull the trigger. Both the Javelin and Stinger are autonomous guided, so once you pull the trigger, you run like fuck, and the thing homes in and destroys the target. These things cost about $80k, where as a Russian tank apparently costs $1.3 mil, plus the training for the crew. Moonbeams for the Russian attack helo's. The west are shipping these MANPADS in like they are RAT tests. That would appear to be why the west aren't engaging their own military. As a defensive tactic, these javelins and stingers are cheap, very easily deployed, easily used by almost anyone, and highly effective against the current Russian military hardware. It may also explain the demise of the Russian Generals. They will be specifically targeted and taken out with the Javelins. How to fire a stinger: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0nuhI05QyAJavelin Info: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6COKC5ZU6gM |
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Post by Cantab on Mar 12, 2022 13:15:51 GMT 12
citizens.news/599712.html "If the US and the West had focused more on critical diplomacy for the sake of global peace, things could have been different. But instead all Western world leaders found nebulous and uncontroversial areas to agree on such as Covid, climate change, wokeism, rewriting history and creating unlimited genders,"
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ukraine
Mar 12, 2022 16:51:11 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Mar 12, 2022 16:51:11 GMT 12
citizens.news/599712.html "If the US and the West had focused more on critical diplomacy for the sake of global peace, things could have been different. But instead all Western world leaders found nebulous and uncontroversial areas to agree on such as Covid, climate change, wokeism, rewriting history and creating unlimited genders," 👍💯% |
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ukraine
Mar 12, 2022 16:57:22 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Mar 12, 2022 16:57:22 GMT 12
If the Russian soldiers grew a" moral backbone" and all marched back to Russia singing " Putin's an idiot" it would be a win win for both the Russians and everything else., Except Putin.
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ukraine
Mar 13, 2022 9:12:32 GMT 12
Post by eri on Mar 13, 2022 9:12:32 GMT 12
President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine is destroying Russia's future and the country's people know it.
Putin can't win.
He may take Kyiv. He may occupy Ukraine. But his credibility is shot, his economy is in tatters, and he may want to take as many down with him as possible.
"This war is destroying is the future of Russia, and its people know it," says Dr Jean-Baptiste Vilmer, director of the Institute for Strategic Research (IRSEM).
What possessed the former Communist Russia KGB operative to launch his invasion is unknown.
What is known is he needed a fast – and total – victory.
Only then could the world be shocked into inaction. Any sanctions would be half-hearted. And the myth of the "chessmaster" would be entrenched forever.
He didn't get it.
www.nzherald.co.nz/world/russia-ukraine-war-destroying-russia-why-putin-cant-win/6YXJFXHJBM7OQ5M6LM66IX2P5A/
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ukraine
Mar 13, 2022 10:24:33 GMT 12
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Post by GO30 on Mar 13, 2022 10:24:33 GMT 12
Ive been sussing wider and deeper. Theres a fair bit out there that suggests not everything Putin is saying/demanding is not that extreme or freaky deaky or really that unreasonable.
Sure he's still a twat but is he as bigger twat as we are being sold??
I am beginning to think maybe hes not.
Then add in how he could get his airforce or large artillery or his huge stockpile of missles to remove the Ukraine in a matter of hours without losing the number of Russian lives thats happened.
The dude portrayed in our media would do that, a cunning bugger with a bigger long term aim maybe not so much.
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ukraine
Mar 13, 2022 10:33:51 GMT 12
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Post by Fogg on Mar 13, 2022 10:33:51 GMT 12
Putin was earlier promised various reassurances by the west that they would not extend western rights / influence any further east across Europe because they acknowledged it would uncomfortable and unnecessary for everyone.
But in more recent times the west has wound back those reassurances both economically (EU) and militarily (NATO) so they always risked poking the bear. And from a diplomatic point of view it has been the west’s biggest blunder / failing since WWII.
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ukraine
Mar 13, 2022 10:41:35 GMT 12
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Post by GO30 on Mar 13, 2022 10:41:35 GMT 12
Yeap, that is definitely the case and one thats been niggling away for a long time. There are aspects about all this that makes the western politicals look a tad disingenuous.
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ukraine
Mar 14, 2022 7:46:32 GMT 12
Post by ComfortZone on Mar 14, 2022 7:46:32 GMT 12
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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ukraine
Mar 14, 2022 8:12:05 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 8:12:05 GMT 12
Yeap, that is definitely the case and one thats been niggling away for a long time. There are aspects about all this that makes the western politicals look a tad disingenuous. the most disingenuous thing about this whole Ukraine scenario is the fact that the west is not in there defending the Ukrainians against Russian Invaders. Putin has invaded a foreign country (started the war), is killing innocent people and the west, with all it's resources and power is not calling Putin's bluff out for what it is- " A bully boy calling for attention'! At the very least it could amas it's military forces on Russia's border with all it missiles aimed at Moscow and then lay down the ultimatum. Fuckoffski Vlad! |
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ukraine
Mar 14, 2022 12:05:43 GMT 12
Post by GO30 on Mar 14, 2022 12:05:43 GMT 12
Yeap, that is definitely the case and one thats been niggling away for a long time. There are aspects about all this that makes the western politicals look a tad disingenuous. the most disingenuous thing about this whole Ukraine scenario is the fact that the west is not in there defending the Ukrainians against Russian Invaders. Putin has invaded a foreign country (started the war), is killing innocent people and the west, with all it's resources and power is not calling Putin's bluff out for what it is- " A bully boy calling for attention'! At the very least it could amas it's military forces on Russia's border with all it missiles aimed at Moscow and then lay down the ultimatum. Fuckoffski Vlad! Not at all sure it is that easy.
There is BIG history in that area and has been for decades, even longer, so us here on a tiny spot of dirt on the other side of the world have no understanding of all that and the intricacies involved. Russian is spoken by most of those on both sides of the weapons so it's easy to see why Russian look west to assume the Russian speaker they see are them or as close as.
Some of the disputed territory was on the Russian side of the border not that long ago. So I can see some of why Russian wants if back.
Then add Nato. Who would want that missmash of often competing politics 100mm from your land, especially as Natos goal is to take down Russian should it have the desire to go there.
Then add, what the fuck do you think would happen within minutes of say a German fighter taking down a Russian one? At the start I though 'Fuck them, just get in there and roll over them with the combined might of Nato and the US' but on reflection if that started to happen what options does Russia have left? To just give up and lose so much, the the west would demand. Not gonna happen. Keep fighting a conventional war knowing the chances are you'll lose so much before the inevitable lose or surrender. Keep fighting a conventional war with the death of millions, astronomical costs and messy nasty evil fall out for years if not decades following, no winners there. Or just keep trying until all hope is lost and there is fuck all left to lose so lets just push that button ...... BAMM 30 minutes later Europe becomes a wasteland for 500 years.
Listened to a thoughtful commentary last evening that suggests the war is going according to Putins plans, or pretty much so. The gist of it being why throw all your gear at it when you know you our resource the competitor so you can just use a little and persists with it until the other side folds. That way if they prove trickier than expected you can add a bit more to the fight or the biggie as the commentator reckoned, keep the guts of your forces in good shape just in case Nato does decide to respond. It was a well reasoned argument they put forward.
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ukraine
Mar 14, 2022 13:36:26 GMT 12
Post by fish on Mar 14, 2022 13:36:26 GMT 12
Yeap, that is definitely the case and one thats been niggling away for a long time. There are aspects about all this that makes the western politicals look a tad disingenuous. the most disingenuous thing about this whole Ukraine scenario is the fact that the west is not in there defending the Ukrainians against Russian Invaders. Putin has invaded a foreign country (started the war), is killing innocent people and the west, with all it's resources and power is not calling Putin's bluff out for what it is- " A bully boy calling for attention'! At the very least it could amas it's military forces on Russia's border with all it missiles aimed at Moscow and then lay down the ultimatum. Fuckoffski Vlad! Doing that would give all of Europe and North America a life expectancy of approx 30 mins. That is how long it takes for a Mobile Launched Intercontinental Ballistic Missile with between 6 and 10 nuclear warheads to travel from Moscow to New York. That is not counting the Trident Fleet of submarines, all with 24 ICBMS, with 6 nuclear warheads each, lurking somewhere, in and ocean, somewhere... Or all of the missiles in fixed silos. Have a read up of the implications of a nuclear winter. It will make sacrificing Ukraine look like a good deal. |
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ukraine
Mar 14, 2022 14:46:44 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Mar 14, 2022 14:46:44 GMT 12
I'm with Aquaholic. I don't think that will happen. Putin does not want to be on the wrong side of history. He also doesn't want to push the button because he knows the Americans can shoot his missiles down in the sky over his own territory. He also knows his people will die in more numbers than the west because for every 1 missile he aimed at the US there will be 100 flying towards him from every nuclear capable NATO team mate.
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Post by GO30 on Mar 14, 2022 18:15:13 GMT 12
Take Nukes out of the equation.
If Nato goes after Russia the mess wouldn't be much less. All it means is millions of innocents will still be murdered, they will just die slower.
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