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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 16:59:13 GMT 12
Is wanting to reverse the name of new Zealand after at least 100 years four times worse? Become part of Australia works for me.look how they treat ABOs and Maori complain about their rights?? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 17:10:20 GMT 12
Is wanting to reverse the name of new Zealand after at least 100 years four times worse? It isn't a reversal. We're currently named after Cook anglicised the original name which was given by Abel Tasman. So a reversal would see us called Nieuw Zeeland A new name will happen one day. Just like we'll become a Republic and the flag will change. We're not the first country to change its colonisers name and we won't be the last. Give it one more generation and it will happen. |
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Post by eri on Dec 18, 2022 17:35:06 GMT 12
changing arguments are we?
changing a 150 year old custom against the wishes of the majority is going to produce a whole lot more blowback than a 25 year old custom that was never fully embraced by the majority
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Post by Cantab on Dec 18, 2022 17:54:54 GMT 12
How about Democracy and Universal Suffrage?
Tribal Rule and Apartheid seem to be coming in despite tradition long being otherwise.
Race based policies are not a good solution to Race based policies problems.
I recall a few years back great celebrations over announcements of a new system for education that would herald much more choice for the teaching of Maori language, history and culture in schools.
My comment at the time went along the lines of "I bet "No" isn't one of the choices"
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:00:14 GMT 12
changing arguments are we? I am not changing anything? Just replying to a post. Can't we have both conversations going? changing a 150 year old custom against the wishes of the majority is going to produce a whole lot more blowback than a 25 year old custom that was never fully embraced by the majority The name is a whole lot older than 150yrs. Try 250. If you count the Dutch version you are looking at close to 350yrs. Is it actually a majority against it tho? In my circles (outside this forum) most are for it. Does anyone actually know? Obviously the flag referendum had the majority against that. Where does the majority sit on dumping the crown? My gut feeling is that a rename will happen when we're down to 50% of Gen X left, so is that 35-40yrs time? |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:21:46 GMT 12
I recall a few years back great celebrations over announcements of a new system for education that would herald much more choice for the teaching of Maori language, history and culture in schools. My comment at the time went along the lines of "I bet "No" isn't one of the choices" New Zealand history is compulsory. And so it should be. With that a bit of culture comes along with it indirectly. But Maori is not compulsory. Many primary schools try to incorporate it into their learning. Some secondary schools let their students do Maori by correspondence, if it is not a subject they can offer within the school. The Maori party want to make it compulsory. www.maoriparty.org.nz/te_reo_maoriIn July Labour said New Zealand isn't ready. www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/129137886/kelvin-davis-aotearoa-not-ready-for-compulsory-te-reo-moriHow about Democracy and Universal Suffrage? Not really sure what you're getting at here? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 18:25:52 GMT 12
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:32:02 GMT 12
Yes. Maori always had separate names for the Islands, even the Chathams and Stewart. They never had a name that encompassed all of what we know today as New Zealand. Hence my comment that changing the name to Aotearoa isn't a reversal. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:38:28 GMT 12
The first recorded mention of Aotearoa as a name for New Zealand as a whole was in 1898, William Pember Reeves, The Long White Cloud Aotearoa. It is the current Maori-language name for New Zealand. The first Māori dictionary, published in 1844, had no entry for Aotearoa. The earliest reference in New Zealand's newspapers was in 1855 in the Māori-language newspaper Māori Messenger, which mentions Aotearoa which it equated to "Nui Tireni". By the 1870s "Aotearoa" became synonymous for the region widely known as the King Country. One King Movement flag also has the words Niu Tireni on it. By the 1860s there are examples of the use of the phrase "the island of Aotearoa" meaning the North Island. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aotearoa |
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Post by Cantab on Dec 18, 2022 18:39:01 GMT 12
My son managed to study Maori in science, English, art, social studies, music and maths classes this year, he also has Maori as a subject.
It would be funny, but its not a joke.
I would be surprised if you could find a school that didn't teach Maori as a compulsory subject for some year level.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:45:09 GMT 12
My son managed to study Maori in science, English, art, social studies, music and maths classes this year, he also has Maori as a subject. It would be funny, but its not a joke. I would be surprised if you could find a school that didn't teach Maori as a compulsory subject for some year level. When I was at primary school in the 60s we were taught Maori, I still remember getting the strap for bashing some kid over the head with a poi I made in craft time 🤣🤣 I ended up at a white priviledge private school in the 70's and we were still were taught minimal Maori even tho it wasn't "compulsory". Nothing like today. But it was still 'taught'. It was a bit ironic really, cause when I asked if I could learn maori properly I was told no, it was a dying language and would soon be extinct. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 18:52:59 GMT 12
Are you teaching your son the importance of the language or expressing your disgust that it's being rammed down his throat?
My parents did the later.
I will never forget the moment I realised they were racist. Their racism was coded and covert and harder to spot or process.
I worked my grandmother out way way earlier, when she told me to stay away from the neighboring house where the "dirty black stinking disgusting maori's" lived. There was no doubt in my mind she was racist.
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Post by Cantab on Dec 18, 2022 19:14:25 GMT 12
I'm ok with using Maori to develop language skills, cultural perspectives, the problem I have is that the level of academic a achievement in NZ has plummeted as measured against world standards, with no sings of it reversing.
The current Woke agenda is not helping reverse this and does not even seem to be attempting to. If the pursuit of Maori culture indoctrination is at the expense of other basic academic learning I am not happy with it.
Basic Maths English Science has not changed, there are well developed method of teaching them. Its not being done, the focus is on Maori history language and culture, it is not preparing kids for the real world.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 19:17:24 GMT 12
You can call NZ whatever you like. But there is a problem which has not raised yet on here. The locking out of Recreational/commercial fishing from Deep water cove (boi) to south of Whagaruru by the Northland regional council under the RMA and have said "NO" to customary take.
Newplymouth south around to Mt Egmont 2 miles out from the shore prohibiting the take of squid/octopus and any shell fish except red rock lobster and no Customary take.
Scallop totally closed Tauranga to Kaipara "No" customary take.
Wont be long before all councils impose the RMA act.
Now here lies the problem. Customary take is perfectly legal under the Treaty and would require an ACT of parliament to impose such restrictions with IWI.The only hope is the issuers of permit will see common sense and not issue such permits but not holding my breathe. IMO give it 2 yrs the entire coastline will be locked off out to the 5 mile limit and customary take will prevail.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 18, 2022 19:51:06 GMT 12
You can call NZ whatever you like. But there is a problem which has not raised yet on here. The locking out of Recreational/commercial fishing from Deep water cove (boi) to south of Whagaruru by the Northland regional council under the RMA and have said "NO" to customary take. Newplymouth south around to Mt Egmont 2 miles out from the shore prohibiting the take of squid/octopus and any shell fish except red rock lobster and no Customary take. Scallop totally closed Tauranga to Kaipara "No" customary take. Wont be long before all councils impose the RMA act. Now here lies the problem. Customary take is perfectly legal under the Treaty and would require an ACT of parliament to impose such restrictions with IWI.The only hope is the issuers of permit will see common sense and not issue such permits but not holding my breathe. IMO give it 2 yrs the entire coastline will be locked off out to the 5 mile limit and customary take will prevail There has been a Rahui in place since 2009 for the area from Oke Bay to Deep Water Cove. So customary fishing rights (if any applied to this area) have been suspended for a long time. My understanding of customary fishing rights is that they only apply to areas that have been shown to be customary fishing areas. Eg, the poor knights have never been a customary fishing area, so customary take does not apply. I also understand (and this might more likely be incorrect) it only applies to local iwi. Eg iwi from Te Urewera cannot show up in the BOI and benefit from those customary rights....  local iwi manage the permits, are they going to give them out to other iwi? Nfi... |
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local iwi manage the permits, are they going to give them out to other iwi? Nfi...