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Post by GO30 on Dec 21, 2022 12:58:50 GMT 12
There was no question, it was simply wondering why your argument lack consistency.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 21, 2022 13:46:03 GMT 12
There was no question, it was simply wondering why your argument lack consistency. I have been quite consistent throughout. 1. Aotearoa is the current Maori language name for NZ 2. No one knows who coined the word. 3. The first written usage of the word was Grey in the 1850s 4. It became the maori language word for all of nz in the early 1900s or late 1800s. 5. I am not in favour of changing the name, I think it's a waste of time and money with everything else that's currently going on. 6. If a decision is made to change the name then from any choices given I would choose Aotearoa. |
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Post by sloopjohnb on Dec 21, 2022 14:42:25 GMT 12
What about New Britain as the Americans have New England.  ?? |
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 21, 2022 15:30:53 GMT 12
There was no question, it was simply wondering why your argument lack consistency. 5. I am not in favour of changing the name, I think it's a waste of time and money with everything else that's currently going on. 6. If a decision is made to change the name then from any choices given I would choose Aotearoa. 5. A name change would be throwing away all that has been developed for brand "New Zealand" over many decades. Then there would be conversations such as "Where are you from?" "Aotearoa" "Where's that?" "New Zealand" "oh, where in New Zealand?" 6. This toxic government has already made the decision to change the name by stealth, because they know it would never pass referendum |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 21, 2022 18:32:16 GMT 12
There was no question, it was simply wondering why your argument lack consistency. I have been quite consistent throughout. Your memory fails you.
Just put the spade down and walk away.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 21, 2022 21:22:55 GMT 12
6. This toxic government has already made the decision to change the name by stealth, because they know it would never pass referendum Nope. JA said she wants New Zealander's to feel free to use both names. There is no conspiracy to change the name. We will still be called New Zealand when the election comes around and Labour gets turfed. Just like many people use Kia ora and a few other Maori words daily, there's nothing stopping people using Aotearoa when talking about NZ. It elevates Te Reo Maori to its rightful place, in a system that has long undervalued its significance. Maybe you are confused with the Maori party? They have a policy to change the name by 2026. No other party does. |
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Post by Cantab on Dec 22, 2022 5:13:10 GMT 12
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Post by armchairadmiral on Dec 22, 2022 6:07:17 GMT 12
Just what is the "significance" of marry ? Rhetorical .There isn't any. There is more significance in Chinese Irish Indian a plethora of other ethnicities languages that have world wide use. You have the freedom to use marry but don't ram it down the rest of our throats and don't compulsorily teach it at school .Or daycare. The preschoolers are getting it rammed down before they have learned English properly . I'm sorry! I shouldn't have fed the beast !
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 22, 2022 7:31:03 GMT 12
6. This toxic government has already made the decision to change the name by stealth, because they know it would never pass referendum Nope. JA said she wants New Zealander's to feel free to use both names. There is no conspiracy to change the name. We will still be called New Zealand when the election comes around and Labour gets turfed. Just like many people use Kia ora and a few other Maori words daily, there's nothing stopping people using Aotearoa when talking about NZ. It elevates Te Reo Maori to its rightful place, in a system that has long undervalued its significance. Maybe you are confused with the Maori party? They have a policy to change the name by 2026. No other party does. What JA says and what JA does are 2 different things, eg she still maintains He Puapua is only a "discussion document", yet it is progressively being implemented. It is notable many government departments now only refer to R T Rower in their advertising and minimise references to New Zealand in their documentation |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 22, 2022 10:26:34 GMT 12
Why do people feel so threatened by having more Maori culture in our day to day lives?
It's an important and significant part of New Zealand's heritage, it defines the country and gives us a unique sense of identity. What's to be afraid of?
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 22, 2022 12:00:00 GMT 12
Why do people feel so threatened by having more Maori culture in our day to day lives? It's an important and significant part of New Zealand's heritage, it defines the country and gives us a unique sense of identity. What's to be afraid of? Look at the title of this thread, "Co-governance" arising from a false claim about "partnership" - and yes I know what Justice Cook wrote in his ruling. "Culture" is one thing, the way this country is being taken down the road to become an ethno based tribal state, as amply demonstrated with the Maori controlled health authority and now 5+Waters Why should Bob, Craig, Tony, Trish, Erik, Phillip, some of my friends with some Maori heritage, but mainly European heritage, be entitled to jump the queue for medical treatment over the rest of the population irrespective of need as defined by triage rules? Why are kids at state schools being brainwashed with a fabricated version of Maori history and forced to learn the Maori language whether they/their parents want it or not? I might add, most Maori I know are not happy about the road the country is being taken down, the majority of change is introducing legalised corruption for a small group of tribal leaders. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 22, 2022 12:24:37 GMT 12
Look at the title of this thread, "Co-governance" arising from a false claim about "partnership" - and yes I know what Justice Cook wrote in his ruling. But that's not what we are talking about at the moment in this thread, the thread might have started with co-governance, but the discussion has gone on a tangent to using the name Aotearoa on Government departments, taking away a 25 year council practice, the use of Māori in schools and even whether Aotearoa is even a Māori word... Why are kids at state schools being brainwashed with a fabricated version of Maori history and forced to learn the Maori language whether they/their parents want it or not? What fabricated version of Maori history are kids being brainwashed with? There's a big difference between learning to string together a coherent sentence in Māori to say what you want vs learning a few useful words like Kia ora, mahi or whānau, or even being able to correctly pronounce place names... Is it that kids are being forced to learn Māori? Or is it that Māori words are being used, and so they indirectly learn a few words? |
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Post by sloopjohnb on Dec 23, 2022 9:17:20 GMT 12
Bob Jones......No punches pulled.
Bob Jones: Fashionable silliness
Labels: Bob Jones, co-governance, Maori wonderfulness, Rob Campbell
In a mindbogglingly inane contributory NZ Herald article Rob Campbell, chairman of Auckland’s casino (among other sinecures) asks, “Who on earth is being hurt by co-governance?”. I’ll answer that by stating the obvious. We all are.
In a democracy the underlying principle is an equal value vote accorded every citizen, regardless of their intellectual differences, contribution to society, ethnicity, and so on.
It’s hard to think of a more disgraceful abuse of this principle than according 50% of governance to an ethnic group that makes up a mere 2% of the population, that is citizens with 50% or more of maori ethnicity. It’s not bloody hard Rob.
Being fashionably trendy about fictitious maori wonderfulness will be the principal reason (among many others) the government will be decimated in the next election.
Sir Bob Jones is a renowned author, columnist , property investor, and former politician, who blogs at No Punches Pulled HERE.
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 23, 2022 9:59:59 GMT 12
Extract from Don Brash's(Hobsons Pledge) Christmas message
But, as we pause for a time with family and friends, we cannot ignore the big fights we have ahead:
• The health system remains divided along racial grounds;
• The nation’s entire water infrastructure is headed into a regime controlled by tribal groupings;
• The court system is increasingly ignoring the will of Parliament and re-interpreting the law in line with Maori customs – most clearly by threatening to establish Maori customary control over the entire foreshore and coastal seabed;
• There is pressure throughout the education sector to put matauranga Maori (traditional Maori “ways of knowing”) on the same footing as science;
• Tribal groups are being given preferential say in the use of the Conservation estate;
• The legislation proposed to replace the Resource Management Act envisages Maori New Zealanders having more say in planning decisions that other New Zealanders;
• English, the language which we all understand, Maori and non-Maori alike, is being steadily undermined by the bureaucratic use of Maori words which very few of us understand;
• Even the name of our country is being casually changed, without the slightest attempt to find out whether the public want such a change;
• Local councils are urged to create separate Maori wards and to recognise the “special status” of Maori citizens in decision-making;
• We are increasingly bound by tribes creating their own laws – such as when they impose a rahui on the use of a forest, beach or river – and then demanding everybody complies with them;
• The Reserve Bank is reinterpreting its mission in terms of Maori mythology (with the Assistant Governor recently giving a speech entitled “The Future is Maori”);
• The mainstream media have been offered financial support conditional on their willingness to support the lie that the Treaty of Waitangi created some kind of partnership between Maori New Zealanders and the rest of us.
We not only have to push back against this nonsense, driven by a Government determined to separate New Zealanders by when we or our ancestors arrived in this country, but we also have to ensure that the next Government is strongly committed to reversing the division that is being forced upon us.
We are a nation with an extremely proud democratic history – perhaps with a claim to be the most democratic country in the world. We were the first to grant women the vote in 1893 and, at least since the introduction of MMP in 1996, a country where almost all votes count equally. We’re a country where every person, regardless of when they or their ancestors came to New Zealand, has had equal political rights, as Article III of the Treaty of Waitangi unambiguously promised.
Under the current Labour Government, this proud status is changing fast and, as a result, we have much work to do.
In 2023, the new History curriculum will be introduced into our schools. Reputable historians have challenged this new curriculum as biased and selective, placing future generations at risk of being misled about our nation’s history.
That history, like that of any nation, includes events which, by the standards of today, we are ashamed of. Where it can be established with reasonable confidence that an injustice was done, compensation should be paid, as in any situation where an injustice is done. But nothing in our history can justify the permanent elevation of some citizens above others.
As I asked last Christmas: Did the Treaty of Waitangi involve Maori chiefs surrendering sovereignty to Queen Victoria in return for being guaranteed their property rights and political equality with all “British subjects”, as most New Zealanders have long believed; or did it involve no surrender of sovereignty, but instead the promise of some kind of partnership with the head of the mightiest empire the world had seen to that date?
We think the answer is clear. The Treaty of Waitangi provides no justification for unequal political rights between New Zealand citizens today. In fact, it sought to guarantee the very equal citizenship Hobson’s Pledge defends.
The Labour Government has been using the claim of a partnership model to justify its divisive policies, reflected in the co-governance which is being thrust upon us in many areas of public policy. This is inherently undemocratic.
Co-governance is a contrived system giving wildly disproportionate power to an unaccountable, unelected minority of New Zealanders who identify to their Maori ancestry. Those who oppose co-governance are shouted down and effectively silenced with unfounded accusations of racism.
However, we do have a choice: we can choose to be a country where government helps people on the basis of their need, whatever their race; or we can be a country forever divided by race, where resources and political power are allocated on the basis of who our ancestors were.
There should surely be no real choice: we must be a country where all have the same political rights, a country where government assistance is provided to those who need it, whatever their ethnicity.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 23, 2022 10:57:09 GMT 12
As I asked last Christmas: Did the Treaty of Waitangi involve Maori chiefs surrendering sovereignty to Queen Victoria in return for being guaranteed their property rights and political equality with all “British subjects”, as most New Zealanders have long believed; or did it involve no surrender of sovereignty, but instead the promise of some kind of partnership with the head of the mightiest empire the world had seen to that date?The later. The Māori Chiefs signed the Māori version of the Treaty. Not the English Version. The only person to sign both versions was Hobson who couldn't read Māori. The Māori version used the word kawanatanga - which means the right to make the rules and the right to govern. The English version used sovereignty - which means a supreme power that owns, manages and rules everything. The two words have very different meaning. In article 2, Māori were guaranteed 'te tino rangatiratanga' or the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages, and all their property and treasures. There is little doubt that the chiefs who signed the Treaty expected to enter into some kind of partnership and power sharing in the new system. But they got fucked over when the Crown pretty much decided the treaty was null and void and took all their land, resources and treasures. And we wonder why we are where we are... A couple of books I have read and I recommend for anyone are: The Treaty Of Waitangi - An illustrated history - Claudia Orange; also The Great New Zealand War - Vincent O'Malley |
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