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EV farce
Jun 4, 2024 12:59:39 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by sloopjohnb on Jun 4, 2024 12:59:39 GMT 12
Lithium phosphate batteries are a lot safer, I looking at changing the moho over.
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Post by fish on Jun 4, 2024 13:39:27 GMT 12
A hybrid went into the ride at Army Bay over the weekend. About 6hrs after it was pulled out it went up in flames. Made me think about the hazards of lithium on a boat in a scenario with water ingress. It would double the hazard having to worry about fire as well as sinking. So many questions on this one Fogg, do you know the back story? Wasn't that long ago (maybe March) someone else drove a car into the tide at Army Bay, was a suicidal guy, had the police and Ambo's down there trying to get him out (windows up, doors locked, pissed (or on drugs as well, not in his right mind). The car was left floating around on the eastern side. The really sad thing was soo many people coming down to have a look at said car bobbing about, some sort of trophy to a guy feeling so shit and rock bottom he couldn't see any other solution. Anyway, I digress. Looks like a late model Outlander PHEV (same as mine, accept that one is loads newer). If it had a perfectly good towball, why would they drag it out by it's wheels? I know those low profile tyres are shit on sand, perhaps they'd sunk in and they just wanted to drag it out. It looks like it went in forward, so wasn't a boat launching snafu (of which are a very regular occurrence there. Sand gets soft suddenly about a car length or two off the end of the ramp, but there is no apparent visual change. Makes me feel a little smug when I launch my 3m deflatable fishing dinghy with beach wheels and all these posh fishos are trying to beach launch a mint as boat off a flat sandy beach. I assume the fire was a spontaneous battery fire, not arson or something else? (noting with salt water damage someone may have wanted to ensure it was written off...) Just goes to show, submerging a car in the sea is bad for the car. PS, on battery hazards and water ingress on boats, there is a reason battery boxes are made water tight. Even flooded lead acid batteries react badly with salt water. I think they produce hydrogen? Then everything explodes. I need to google it, but salt water and FLA's are very bad as well. Produce some sort of gas that will kill you one way or another... Apparently it is best to keep the sea water on the outside of boats as well as cars... |
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EV farce
Jun 4, 2024 19:01:43 GMT 12
via mobile
fish likes this
Post by Fogg on Jun 4, 2024 19:01:43 GMT 12
It sounds like the guy drove down at low tide Sun night, fell asleep (drunk) and woke up when the car was half submerged. Asked a local for help but then left the scene. Weird.
Towing by the wheels was an attempt to get the (electronically) locked wheels to lift and slide with one tow car per wheel. It worked well.
It self-ignited a few hours afterwards in the carpark.
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Post by em on Jun 5, 2024 10:40:48 GMT 12
Well down the road to putting lifep04 in the raceboat . It has no inboard , so Solar only and straight forward . Hopefully we don’t make the news . On the car front the 2014 outlander PHEV has just cracked 212K kilometres and is finally showing signs it needs brake pads , its still on the originals from new . It’s been my daily driver since the wife has been overseas , uses way less fuel than my car ! We don’t charge it just use it as if it’s a hybrid .
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Post by GO30 on Jun 5, 2024 13:44:36 GMT 12
Well down the road to putting lifep04 in the raceboat . It has no inboard , so Solar only and straight forward . Tell us about your system set up please EM.
I had a hell of a time trying to connect solar to lithium. So much so it is the 1 thing on her that I'm that unhappy/in 2 minds about/nervous I'm quite likely to make some biggish changes too. I have black boxes and I hate/simple do not trust black boxes.
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Post by em on Jun 5, 2024 17:35:38 GMT 12
Well down the road to putting lifep04 in the raceboat . It has no inboard , so Solar only and straight forward . Tell us about your system set up please EM.
I had a hell of a time trying to connect solar to lithium. So much so it is the 1 thing on her that I'm that unhappy/in 2 minds about/nervous I'm quite likely to make some biggish changes too. I have black boxes and I hate/simple do not trust black boxes.
Well , we are embarking on 2 handed race program of sorts culminating in a long race in Feb where we need to be able to run systems for up to 3 days , hopefully not longer ! Batteries are 2 x 120Ah lithium phosphate . The idea is one will be backup and isolated via switching that is yet to be nutted out . Charging will be done by a victron blue controller , these come with a lifepo4 charging profile that can be customised . I’m going to dial it down so it’s inside the safe battery specs a bit . Ive done this at home on our house system on advice from someone much smarter than me . we will start out with 4 x 50 watt panels and see how that goes . Choosing 50 watt because that is watt will fit on the scant deck space that’s available . Last resort is hanging more wattage off the pushpit on something tricky . the loads are all 12V and small , biggest load will be the tiller pilot , constant load will be the AIS which has to be on 24/7 . There’s no pumps or fridges or wifi but there is a cornucopia of rechargeable lithium firebombs that will be onboard . We also have a low boom and petrol fuel locker waiting to kill us so the lifepo4 is in good company . |
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Post by em on Jun 5, 2024 17:37:31 GMT 12
If I get time I will write a book about it like fish did with his lead/carbon install
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Post by fish on Jun 5, 2024 19:49:08 GMT 12
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 11, 2024 22:14:51 GMT 12
Bit of a reality check one of the comments therein Imagine if battery cars were the mainstream and then somebody invented the diesel engine.
1000 kilometre range, refill in three minutes, absolutely useless at burning down multi-storey car parks or your house. A service life of three hundred thousand kilometres and even then economically viable to be rebuilt.
A fuel tank that doesn’t shrink every time you fill it up and is indifferent to being filled to the brim or being run almost dry.
An engine that provides heat to the cabin with no effect on range, cooling for the cabin with marginal effect on range and enjoys cruising at motorway speeds all day in all weathers .
I wonder if that might prove to be a winner?
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Post by muzled on Jun 12, 2024 8:58:11 GMT 12
The solution is, one of each?
That's what we have.
The leaf is great for burning off Ford rager drivers around town, (amazing how if there is someone right up your arse, 9 times out of 10 it will be a rager, not a hilux, not a triton, not a dmax, not an amrok, a rager...). Super fun to drive, outrageous acceleration for a ~$20K car.
The bouncy hilux is good for carting shit and longer trips. Bloody uncomfortable thing to drive though, if it wasn't for the practicality I'd ditch it in a heartbeat.
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Post by fish on Jun 12, 2024 9:55:54 GMT 12
Bit of a reality check
one of the comments therein Imagine if battery cars were the mainstream and then somebody invented the diesel engine.
1000 kilometre range, refill in three minutes, absolutely useless at burning down multi-storey car parks or your house. A service life of three hundred thousand kilometres and even then economically viable to be rebuilt.
A fuel tank that doesn’t shrink every time you fill it up and is indifferent to being filled to the brim or being run almost dry.
An engine that provides heat to the cabin with no effect on range, cooling for the cabin with marginal effect on range and enjoys cruising at motorway speeds all day in all weathers .
I wonder if that might prove to be a winner?
Imagine if all your vehicles only used diesel, and a bunch of subversive foreign nations were the only ones that produced it, and overnight decided they wanted to completely ream you for extra profit? You suddenly can't afford your diesel, inflation on everything goes rampant and your economy crashes. Or, crazy religious fundamentalist nation goes nuts and attacks the neighbouring crazy religious fundamentalist nation starting a large war that prevents the supply of diesel from the only diesel producing region in the world? Overnight your country runs our of diesel and your economy doesn't just collapse, it freezes. People starve because you can't move food, let alone grow or harvest it. Then imagine if someone evented a vehicle you could charge at home buy putting a few incredibly simple solar panels on your roof? You could have complete energy self sufficiency and no longer be at the behest of crazy religious fundamentalist diesel producing countries, not have to worry about random events on the other side of the world doubling the price of your fuel and have a wealthy and prosperous country enjoying total energy security. As with so many things in life, diversity greatly reduces risk. Having more than one way to fuel a transport fleet is a very good thing. And as for specific vehicles, it has always been horses for courses. To say that EV is useless and diesel is the only way is a non-sense. This thread started because Labour and the crazy Greens put in a whole lot of market distortions around EV's. Taxing diesel utes so wealthy people could by a $70k EV was a nonsense. That is gone now. And EV's are now paying their fair share of road tax. So overall, the original drivers of animosity toward EV's and the genesis of this thread have passed. EV's have a place, as do diesel utes. It just depends what you want to do, nip to the shops for two bags of food or launch a 3 ton fizzboat. You are free to choose the most appropriate vehicle. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 12, 2024 10:19:43 GMT 12
Imagine if all your vehicles only used diesel, and a bunch of subversive foreign nations were the only ones that produced it, and overnight decided they wanted to completely ream you for extra profit? You suddenly can't afford your diesel, inflation on everything goes rampant and your economy crashes. Or, crazy religious fundamentalist nation goes nuts and attacks the neighbouring crazy religious fundamentalist nation starting a large war that prevents the supply of diesel from the only diesel producing region in the world? Overnight your country runs our of diesel and your economy doesn't just collapse, it freezes. People starve because you can't move food, let alone grow or harvest it. Then imagine if someone evented a vehicle you could charge at home buy putting a few incredibly simple solar panels on your roof? You could have complete energy self sufficiency and no longer be at the behest of crazy religious fundamentalist diesel producing countries, not have to worry about random events on the other side of the world doubling the price of your fuel and have a wealthy and prosperous country enjoying total energy security. As with so many things in life, diversity greatly reduces risk. Having more than one way to fuel a transport fleet is a very good thing. And as for specific vehicles, it has always been horses for courses. To say that EV is useless and diesel is the only way is a non-sense. This thread started because Labour and the crazy Greens put in a whole lot of market distortions around EV's. Taxing diesel utes so wealthy people could by a $70k EV was a nonsense. That is gone now. And EV's are now paying their fair share of road tax. So overall, the original drivers of animosity toward EV's and the genesis of this thread have passed. EV's have a place, as do diesel utes. It just depends what you want to do, nip to the shops for two bags of food or launch a 3 ton fizzboat. You are free to choose the most appropriate vehicle. Agree with most of what you are saying, in particular spreading risk, but not quite all. The issue being that EV's are being pushed by governments as the panacea for all transport needs which has driven manufacturers to slow/stop development on ICE vehicles, thereby potentially removing that freedom of choice you talk about. You need a rather large solar panel array to charge up a typical EV battery. And yes someone once wondered out loud "why are most of the world's oil reserves controlled by "rat bag" countries"
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Post by fish on Jun 12, 2024 10:39:38 GMT 12
Imagine if all your vehicles only used diesel, and a bunch of subversive foreign nations were the only ones that produced it, and overnight decided they wanted to completely ream you for extra profit? You suddenly can't afford your diesel, inflation on everything goes rampant and your economy crashes. Or, crazy religious fundamentalist nation goes nuts and attacks the neighbouring crazy religious fundamentalist nation starting a large war that prevents the supply of diesel from the only diesel producing region in the world? Overnight your country runs our of diesel and your economy doesn't just collapse, it freezes. People starve because you can't move food, let alone grow or harvest it. Then imagine if someone evented a vehicle you could charge at home buy putting a few incredibly simple solar panels on your roof? You could have complete energy self sufficiency and no longer be at the behest of crazy religious fundamentalist diesel producing countries, not have to worry about random events on the other side of the world doubling the price of your fuel and have a wealthy and prosperous country enjoying total energy security. As with so many things in life, diversity greatly reduces risk. Having more than one way to fuel a transport fleet is a very good thing. And as for specific vehicles, it has always been horses for courses. To say that EV is useless and diesel is the only way is a non-sense. This thread started because Labour and the crazy Greens put in a whole lot of market distortions around EV's. Taxing diesel utes so wealthy people could by a $70k EV was a nonsense. That is gone now. And EV's are now paying their fair share of road tax. So overall, the original drivers of animosity toward EV's and the genesis of this thread have passed. EV's have a place, as do diesel utes. It just depends what you want to do, nip to the shops for two bags of food or launch a 3 ton fizzboat. You are free to choose the most appropriate vehicle. Agree with most of what you are saying, in particular spreading risk, but not quite all. The issue being that EV's are being pushed by governments as the panacea for all transport needs which has driven manufacturers to slow/stop development on ICE vehicles, thereby potentially removing that freedom of choice you talk about. You need a rather large solar panel array to charge up a typical EV battery. And yes someone once wondered out loud "why are most of the world's oil reserves controlled by "rat bag" countries"
Yes, The problem for diesel / ice engines is the constantly sinking lid on emissions requirements. That is producing some very perverse outcomes. I think Europe has banned 2 stroke outboards? I use my Yamaha 2 stroke heavily for dinghy fishing and still haven't got through 1 litre of oil, has lasted maybe 2 years (in saying that, I might need some more this summer). If I can use it intensively and only use 1 l of oil, what benefit is there of the increase consumption of metal or minerals for a new 4 stroke or electric outboard? My boat engine, apparently complies with "all current and projected EU emission requirements". I am lucky if I use 100l of diesel a year, it simply cannot influence anything, let alone the environment. I was browsing Beta engines the other day, looking for fuel consumption figures to benchmark a mates new big arse yacht. I found a very good looking high torque low reving high horsepower engine, but it was exclusively for commercial use only. Under fear of god and EU regulations Beta are not allowed to sell it for recreational use. wtf? Recreational boats use a fraction of the diesel annually than commercial boats do, yet there is this crazy layer of bureaucracy about who can use what engine. A while ago I was looking at new family cars, SUV style like the Outlander. Honda's offering had a 1,500 cc high turbo motor, in order to meet the emissions requirements. Every other car maker has gone down the hybrid route. I wouldn't even test drive it, the whole concept is wrong. Putting a 1,500 cc high turbo motor in a family SUV sounds like a recipe for disaster. If it lasts long enough to get to 100,000km it would be great, but it isn't going to last like a 2.5l standard motor, and just feeds greater consumption of resources. |
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Post by em on Jun 12, 2024 11:06:55 GMT 12
At work we have 3 diggers , two tractors , diesel dumper , 3 petrol chainsaws , 3 petrol trash pumps , petrol posthole borer , 6 wheel tip truck , diesel ranger ute . Owner is a dyed in the wool national voter and drives an EV 99% of the time because it’s saves him a bomb on fuel commuting between Auckland and Whangarei . He also likes that it goes like a cut cat .
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Post by harrytom on Jun 12, 2024 12:58:53 GMT 12
New diesil trucks produce bugger all emmisions due to adblu,a tank that pumps urea(pigs piss) in to the exhaust and you stand there all day long and never get a smell of fumes. $3 lt but a 40lt tank does 1000lts of diesil
There has been more talk of hydrogen but its so uneconomical to produce,50kw to produce 1kg of hydrogen
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