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EV farce
Apr 23, 2022 12:59:09 GMT 12
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Apr 23, 2022 12:59:09 GMT 12
Why bother recycling anything in NZ.
For every kiwi doing their bit there's
1 .supermarkets, restaurants, cafes.... Just dumping food into the general waste.
2. Councils dumping excess non green waste into the tip face
3. Endless diesel trucks driving / polluting your streets picking up 3,4,5 bin's
4. Huge countries like India, that create more waste/pollution in a month than we create in a decade ... Just doing nothing.
NZ should not compromise/ bankrupt it's economy just to ' try" and save 0.02% of supposed emmisions while others don't give a rats arse.
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Post by fish on Apr 23, 2022 13:26:51 GMT 12
Yes. But given the high cost of, well, almost everything 'fresh' from the supermarket, we compost, worm farm and bokashi all of our food waste and put it back into the garden, to grow fresh greens so we don't have to pay $$$ for it. The bokashi is for composting meat scraps - big step forward in reducing food waste. Not sure if I could run the car on it. But there are examples all over the world of biogas production from various organic sources. Waste Management (yes, that Chinese company) wanted to collect the North Shore's compost and digest it at the Dairy Flat landfill for a biogas operation. I'm not sure what happened to that plan. I think they wanted to charge for the collection, when it is actually a valuable resource. Wastewater treatment plants are a really good source of methane (they produce loads, it is measured as a GHG on carbon assessments for new plants). It is fairly easy to harvest and re-use that methane if you are designing a new plant or anaerobic digestor. Also reduces smell for the neighbours. We even have an arrangement with a friend who works in a rest home kitchen. They dump all of their food scraps, so she brings it to us a couple of times a week, and we compost it, or feed it to the chickens at the local primary school. This is all cottage industry level, but it is perfectly feasible to do a de Lorean and produce energy from food scraps. But methane is a higher pollutant than fossil fuel,we have a food scrape operation run by council that collects the bins weekly but the bags that are organic.Apparently take 20+ yrs to break down before they can use as compost.Oh and they will be charging for the compost that they received for free. Green is not a cheap option or commercially viable option. Have had vege gardens in the past. Thinking disperse excess around neighbours,but when our lettuce is ready so is everybody elses,tomatos/potatos. Communal growing could work if each person decide what they are going to grow.That way no excess. Everyone a has figoa tree/apple tree/grapefruit Methane is produced from any green waste or food scraps that goes to landfill, so anything you divert from landfill is a major win. Not sure where you are gettign 20plus years to break down? Most good compost operations is about 3 months. If all your veges are ready all at once, you need to stagger your planting. Do a 1/4 of your seedlings every week for 4 weeks... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 16:15:13 GMT 12
The silly little gren bags that council want you too buy are made from vegatable starch but according too waste management they take 20yrs.Who knows we dont buy the bags but use newspaper as liner.
Methane's lifetime in the atmosphere is much shorter than carbon dioxide (CO2), but CH4 is more efficient at trapping radiation than CO2. Pound for pound, the comparative impact of CH4 is 25 times greater than CO2 over a 100-year period.
Blaming cows,funny how during the world first lockdown the carbon dropped,cows didnt go in too lockdown
Wheers Greta when you need her??
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EV farce
Apr 23, 2022 17:42:19 GMT 12
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Apr 23, 2022 17:42:19 GMT 12
There's only one cow I want to go into lockdown!... Permanently!
You're right about the cows !...
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Post by fish on Apr 23, 2022 18:29:33 GMT 12
It is beyond me how taxing cows farts is going to help climate change.
Our agri sector is one of the least damaging in the world. Just look at any US feed lot operation. The amount of diesel they burn growing and harvesting the grain, then carting it to where the cows are. Its like they don't know cows have legs or something.
Sure, tax discretionary activities like flying, and consumerism. But taxing cows? Makes about as much sense as the taxing utes so rich people can save money on an $80k car.
PS, Anyone seen the price of diesel today? $2.67 up the road from me....
You ute drivers will be gagging to go EV any minute now!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 19:13:44 GMT 12
hate to think what my carbon was making dinner over a barrel smoker?
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Post by GO30 on Apr 27, 2022 19:50:58 GMT 12
PS, Anyone seen the price of diesel today? $2.67 up the road from me.... You ute drivers will be gagging to go EV any minute now! A few days ago I filled up at $2.09 per lt in Mungers as I do before heading into the AKL tax zone.
While there I had a interesting chat with a couple in a Subaru Forrester trans wagon who were towing a caravan. He reckoned they made a mistake buying it as a tow wagon as the EV range is low being a trans wagon so when towing it drops to minimal which then leads to the ICE kicking in. That's all good but on any decent trip he reckons he uses a lot more petrol as the trans wagon has a smaller motor which has to work extra hard when towing. He loves the wagon around town but they are seriously considering going back to ICE just to tow the caravan over any distance. I did note their caravan is bigger than our bloody house, he got a furrowed brow as he threw a look at his Wa, she smiled. I suspect I saw the remains of a 'do we really need this big a caravan?' discussion 
Mr Fishy fellow, do you use your trans wagon to tow?
I did the numbers again last week and we don't keep wagons long enough for a EV to become more planet friendly than a ICE. That was using 'international average' numbers so the time frame would be less in NZ but still longer than we tend to keep wagons. Not to mention going EV would cost us say 56K for the Forrester mentioned above then 19-25K* for the solar just to charge it. The solar we already have can charge a Leaf but it would take 3 days with maximum sun, assuming we wanted to use some power for lights and other uses. But then we'd have to rely on the diesel burning tractor to do a lot the far more efficient ute does as the Forrester just can't.
* - assuming it's got a battery capacity of 14KW and we get at least 4 hours of good clean sun each day. I suspect any decent work capable wagon will have far larger than 14kw. Someone told me the flasher Tesla has 80kW. For us to have the ability to charge one of those means we'd lose an acre to solar panels, possibly more. There are a lot of C02 eating trees to the acre.
The 14kw system has over 23m2 of panels and they are the newer flash more efficient panels. To charge a Tesla or any EV with a decent sized battery would mean we'd need more sq/m of panels than the footprint of your average NZ house....hmmm.... which them raises another interesting question. If refilling your EV at home by solar as many experts reckon is easy peasy to do and those who aren't are just climate deniers then how the hell is the Govts new house plans going to work with that? With them wanting super intensive housing where the fuck are all these panels supposed to go?
There is a time and place for EV's but currently it's in the burbs with people who don't have bugger all to move and do have spare time on their hands. That'll change but it'll take time while they discover all these new technologies needed.
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Post by fish on Apr 28, 2022 10:25:05 GMT 12
PS, Anyone seen the price of diesel today? $2.67 up the road from me.... You ute drivers will be gagging to go EV any minute now!
There is a time and place for EV's but currently it's in the burbs with people who don't have bugger all to move and do have spare time on their hands. That'll change but it'll take time while they discover all these new technologies needed.
This bit. That is what EV's are good for. Horses for courses. Which is why I strongly disagree with the ute tax. Conversely though, where I live, 90% of utes are driven by Ltd Company for Tax Purposes owners, mainly tradies, real estate agents etc who get a tax rebate on their vehicle. None of those people actually need a ute for their work. Esp tradies, where their tools can be far better organised and safely stored in a van than a ute. So most people in the urban envirnoment are driving 3l turbo diesel utes around where a van or station wagon would do just fine. The qualifying comment on that though, is there appears to a law, a strict law of nature, that you cannot be a tradie without owning a fizz boat for fishing. And I'll bet you a good bottle of whisky that every ute driver in my area that don't actually need a ute for work justify it by the need to tow their boat up and down boat ramps in the region. I do tow with the EV, but we are talking a cube of garden mix on a single axle trailer the 10kms from the garden centre (for our survivalist vege garden ;-) ) It is not far enough to get a handle on mileage. I don't tow caravans or boats with the PHEV. We tow the boat with a tractor (the club tractor up the slipway in a craddle). The old man has a massive caravan / trailer home. He tows that with a 3l turbo diesel ute... He has just upgraded to a 6 ton truck to tow the trailer home (more weight capacity, to avoid issues with gross vehicle weight on long trips) and is going to get a little run about car for the shopping, like a Leaf EV or a Toyota Aqua (small hybride car with the load capacity for grocery shopping and not much else). The PHEV tows really well, as the torque is good. I often forget I have a trailer on, as you don't notice the difference in take off speed or revs, like with a ICE. BUT - The Outlander PHEV has a max braked trailer weight of 1,000 kg, where a standard Outlander has a max braked weight of 1,300 kg. When quizing my EV broker on this, I thought the issue was braking capacity for tow vehicles. He said no, the issue is the PHEV apparently lacks the power to get weight up hills. If the battery is exhausted in hybrid mode on a long hill, the 2l engine can't generate enough power. That was the professionals logic anyway. I'm not familiar with the Subaru vehicle you mention for your mate with the silly big caravan, but it doesn't sound like a very well spec'ed tow vehicle. Bearing in mind diesels have far better torque for towing than petrol. In the US all their 'trucks' are massive petrol engines. We had a colleague on exchange from the US. He was gob-smacked at the 'tiny' (in his eyes) utes we tow massive things with, simply could not comprehend it. That was until I mentioned they are all diesel engines. His commuter was a Dodge RAM, and used as much gasoline in a week that we would use in about 6 months... |
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Post by GO30 on Apr 28, 2022 12:44:09 GMT 12
You get tax rebates on utes? That's news to me as I'm constantly warned by our accountants utes are a great target of IRD as most should attract Fringe Benefit tax but many don't get picked up. We're lucky that the 3 who drive work utes here are all on the old IRD 'on call' list i.e. we're classified as being on call so driving utes home and to work etc is regarded as legit not a fringe benefit. Hard to fit 30 2.4m 3x4 fence posts or 30 sheets of Gib or 6 calfs in a van but real easy in a ute so many tradies utes are legit but some aren't. I can't see why a real estate agent or accountants or hairdressers (all 3 seen around us) need utes though. I have 4 of them yet I only drive one when I've got a load to carry or something to tow. My 'go to' is always 2 wheels as it should be for SHIT LOADS more NZers. On towing, my ute has only got a 2.2 turbo but a 3.5t tow rating, which is higher than many bigger motored competitors. I commonly tow 2-3t and that's noticeable but we have a growing issue of me forgetting the trailer is only lowly loaded or empty as you can't tell it's even on. A couple of weeks back I was towing around 3t, trailer full of bedding sand, around the gravel roads and it was fine. When I got it unloaded I noticed the brakes were off so the entire time it was only the mighty Ssingsongs brakes doing all the work...Opps..but good to know when you buy a secondary brand like Ssingsong you get dicks brakes on all 4 corners, unlike a mainstrem brand. Yeah the caravan dude did seem to be caught by the talk when vehicle shopping or so I presume. But interesting to note Mr Fishs 'EV broker' (how la-de-da is that having a car broker. It must be a rich pricks thing ) mentioned pretty much exactly what caravan dude found out. When the lectric drive is going all is good, very good, but as soon as the ICE kicks in the lacking is found. Chatting to a mechanic mate last evening he also mentioned the trade off in most dual fuel wagons. When you consider all will have been designed with no or minimal low load towing in mind it make perfect sense. I did consider a huge RAM ute, way too big. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Apr 28, 2022 15:47:36 GMT 12
You get tax rebates on utes? That's news to me as I'm constantly warned by our accountants utes are a great target of IRD as most should attract Fringe Benefit tax but many don't get picked up. Opps..but good to know when you buy a secondary brand like Ssingsong you get dicks brakes on all 4 corners, unlike a mainstrem brand. I have heard stories (not verified tho) of IRD people being posted at boat ramps noting rego's and any sign writing on said utes Had not heard about the new braking system you mention   |
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Post by fish on Apr 29, 2022 10:43:35 GMT 12
You get tax rebates on utes? That's news to me as I'm constantly warned by our accountants utes are a great target of IRD as most should attract Fringe Benefit tax but many don't get picked up. We're lucky that the 3 who drive work utes here are all on the old IRD 'on call' list i.e. we're classified as being on call so driving utes home and to work etc is regarded as legit not a fringe benefit. Hard to fit 30 2.4m 3x4 fence posts or 30 sheets of Gib or 6 calfs in a van but real easy in a ute so many tradies utes are legit but some aren't. I can't see why a real estate agent or accountants or hairdressers (all 3 seen around us) need utes though. I have 4 of them yet I only drive one when I've got a load to carry or something to tow. My 'go to' is always 2 wheels as it should be for SHIT LOADS more NZers. On towing, my ute has only got a 2.2 turbo but a 3.5t tow rating, which is higher than many bigger motored competitors. I commonly tow 2-3t and that's noticeable but we have a growing issue of me forgetting the trailer is only lowly loaded or empty as you can't tell it's even on. A couple of weeks back I was towing around 3t, trailer full of bedding sand, around the gravel roads and it was fine. When I got it unloaded I noticed the brakes were off so the entire time it was only the mighty Ssingsongs brakes doing all the work...Opps..but good to know when you buy a secondary brand like Ssingsong you get dicks brakes on all 4 corners, unlike a mainstrem brand. Yeah the caravan dude did seem to be caught by the talk when vehicle shopping or so I presume. But interesting to note Mr Fishs 'EV broker' (how la-de-da is that having a car broker. It must be a rich pricks thing  ) mentioned pretty much exactly what caravan dude found out. When the lectric drive is going all is good, very good, but as soon as the ICE kicks in the lacking is found. Chatting to a mechanic mate last evening he also mentioned the trade off in most dual fuel wagons. When you consider all will have been designed with no or minimal low load towing in mind it make perfect sense. I did consider a huge RAM ute, way too big. Mate, you are beyond reality. Tradies do not transport gib. It is all delivered in Armourguard vans now. And tradies (in Auckland) don't collect their own materials. It is not worth their time sitting in traffic. They get everything delivered. The only time someone would be loading building materials, esp gib, into a vehicle, it will be when they are nicking it. And if I were nicking it, I'd use a van, so it is harder for people to see what I nicked. Just sayin ;-) I am interested though, what can you get in a ute tray that you can't get in a van? Most ute trays have those silly security lids on them, so they are worse than useless for trying to transport anything that sits above the tray sides. I'd say the main benefits of utes is the double cab so you can pick the kids up from school, and the towing capability. Most often used for boats, occasionally used for towing trailers with building equipment. Looping back to the original question. If you are going to tow something lots, I'd get a diesel motor, not an EV or PHEV. They simply aren't designed for it. Most diesels are designed for big torque. Some diesels in cars are designed for zoomy fast, like the euro cars, VW Gulf TDi etc. Using an EV to tow would be about as logical as using a VW Gulf TDi to tow. They are higher revving fast motors with feck all torque. Its getting back to the horses for courses point. And as for my EV Broker, I just put that in there to get a bite from you ;-) He was more of an agent. We got our PHEV at auction direct from Japan. He tells us what is available each day, we instruct a bid, he handles the import and all. But he does tell us what not to bother with, and what the possible issues are with certain cars, like a broker. If your mate with the big caravan used a broker instead of salesmen with loads of spin, he might have a suitably spec'ed tow vehicle... Anyway, how are the diesel prices? I ventured out of the hood yesterday and spied between $2.50 and $2.67 / litre - for diesel - not 91..... Those prices must be really cutting someones lunch. Cost of freight must be going up (more). See the other thread on Castrol announcing their oil prices are doubling, too. |
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Post by GO30 on Apr 30, 2022 18:00:54 GMT 12
Mate, you are beyond reality. Tradies do not transport gib. It is all delivered in Armourguard vans now. And tradies (in Auckland) don't collect their own materials. It is not worth their time sitting in traffic. They get everything delivered. The only time someone would be loading building materials, esp gib, into a vehicle, it will be when they are nicking it. And if I were nicking it, I'd use a van, so it is harder for people to see what I nicked. Just sayin ;-) I am interested though, what can you get in a ute tray that you can't get in a van? Most ute trays have those silly security lids on them, so they are worse than useless for trying to transport anything that sits above the tray sides. Armourguard is right, that stuffs harder to get than methamphetamine, probably not far off price equality as well.
Agree, we have people drive from Pine Harbour and the Tron to get gear when we could drop it on NZC or Mainfreight for less than the fuel they use let alone time and frustration at the AT created and endorsed congestion.
Vans and utes can do a lot of the same things fine but each has areas they can do better than the other. Utes are more just cars with a far handier sized boot, vans are vans. Utes drive just like cars or decent EU inspired utes do, many jappa utes still drive like utes. Vans are vans. Utes have flexible space, vans are fixed. Putting 6 sheep in a van can make you look a tad shady to the SPCA and many others, unless you're in Taranaki where a 6 sheep in van just says 'I'm looking for somewhere to finish my orgy'. 6 sheep in ute stops the never left the burbs muppet wannbe activists screaming 'you arsehole dairy farmer' at you. It's complex stuff
I have a silly security lid on my ute, it stops fuckers stealing shit, but I can remove it inside 1 minute, as you can with most.
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EV farce
Apr 30, 2022 21:18:02 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 21:18:02 GMT 12
A turbo diesel 4WD van with a 3500kg towing capacity would be a far better tradie vehicle for loading than any twatty Ego centric Ute.
I sold my 2020 Mitsubishi Triton VRX last year for more than I paid for it and fit more in my diesel pajero.
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Post by GO30 on May 2, 2022 16:16:59 GMT 12
I am interested though, what can you get in a ute tray that you can't get in a van? A sack of dross ropes from 2 marina line clean ups, the ones that have been trying hard to become mussel ropes, that had been sitting in the sun for nearly 2 days.
Stick them in your van if you like but if they go in the back of a ute they are unliky to be joined by some vomit
A dog I once had loved munching on pigs head but after he'd had one he'd start farting and they could peel paint of doors. You can have him in your van as well, I'll run the book on whether you can get far enough to need to change measurements from metres to km, before the van stops to the sound of gagging noises.
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Post by fish on May 2, 2022 19:53:57 GMT 12
I am interested though, what can you get in a ute tray that you can't get in a van? A sack of dross ropes from 2 marina line clean ups, the ones that have been trying hard to become mussel ropes, that had been sitting in the sun for nearly 2 days.
Stick them in your van if you like but if they go in the back of a ute they are unliky to be joined by some vomit
A dog I once had loved munching on pigs head but after he'd had one he'd start farting and they could peel paint of doors. You can have him in your van as well, I'll run the book on whether you can get far enough to need to change measurements from metres to km, before the van stops to the sound of gagging noises.
You know modern vans have windows aye? even ones that open ;-) Despite your colourful examples of things that are better off in a trailer (towed by a can), the point still is that the majority of people driving utes (in cities) don't actaully need a ute. Utes were designed for rural work and farming. They are indespensible in the country, just a bit over-specced for city driving. |
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) mentioned pretty much exactly what caravan dude found out. When the lectric drive is going all is good, very good, but as soon as the ICE kicks in the lacking is found. Chatting to a mechanic mate last evening he also mentioned the trade off in most dual fuel wagons. When you consider all will have been designed with no or minimal low load towing in mind it make perfect sense.