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Post by ComfortZone on May 12, 2022 13:35:23 GMT 12
This article on ETNZ's chase zero gets me really interested in understanding more about fuel cells. They tested the range and speed, did 151 nm @28.3 knts, starting with 96% full tanks. Interestingly the 11m RIB would have used 800l of petrol to do the same. This is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison, for a true comparison you would want to fit an ICE powertrain in the foiling boat. You get into all sorts of interesting variables when you compare Hydrogen's energy density, by volume it is about the same as petrol, by weight (if you compress the hell out of it) it has about 3 x the density - interesting report here www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storageI am a bit sceptical of the claim that the outboards would be using 140lph, this is virtually full throttle consumption which I do not believe is required to achieve that speed |
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Post by em on May 12, 2022 13:53:17 GMT 12
We are solar only , 3kw of panels and 4.8w of batteries which are starting to fade after 4.5 years due to a few installation mistakes . Switching to lithium very soon for less battery anxiety and less generator use on dark mornings when everyone wants a coffee and toast before work/school . we have solar hot water which is very very good . It’s a bit different being a roof top tank of 350 litres with wetback connected too but it means it’s gravity fed so we don’t have a water pump which is a considerable consumer of power . We have a 10,000 litre header tank for house supply and it’s only 10 meters higher than the house , 100 meters away under a tree and gives good pressure . we have fridge/freezer , chest freezer , TV , and all the usual plug and play equipment for various household tasks . 3kw is just enough but with lithium we will be sweet . Much smaller batteries needed because depth of discharge can be 80% compared to the 45% we have to stick to with the lead batteries . They also charge faster and partial charge won’t feck them up …works out we can now have more capacity for the almost half the price of what our lead batteries cost 5 years ago . What do you think your annualized cost is for all of your energy needs, including the generator? Ahmm dunno . We are offgrid because we have to be …26k for solar as opposed to 100k to get power in to the site so don’t really fret about whether it’s saving money or not . It’s great when there’s a power cut though cause we can keep watching Netflix as our internet provider has a battery/solar powered radiowave repeater thingy-whatsit in the valley below us , never lost internet connection in 4 years . generator is diesel and would use maybe 100 litres per winter . We use LPG for cooking and go through 9kg in 6 weeks in summer and a bit less in winter as we use the wood stove for roasting/baking in winter |
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Post by em on May 12, 2022 14:00:41 GMT 12
Off topic a bit but may be interesting.We put solar water in.It's OK but wouldn't rave about it.Took about 8 years to pay for itself but have had problems ; 2 dud panels, leaking aquaseal and $500 for new impellor . You have to work power on/off to make it really pay. Like all wonder solutions they don't tell you those bits We had a tie-in sort of boosted the electric cylinder solar water system when we lived in town , not that great , very complex and practically useless in winter . the system we have now is totally roof mounted with no mechanical parts and is very good . Evacuated tubes not panels and has a 2KW electric element for very bad weather plus an inlet for the wetback . 80 degrees today and it boils over most days in summer . Attachments:
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Post by ComfortZone on May 13, 2022 13:08:57 GMT 12
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Post by GO30 on May 13, 2022 14:19:57 GMT 12
We are solar only , 3kw of panels and 4.8w of batteries which are starting to fade after 4.5 years due to a few installation mistakes . Switching to lithium very soon for less battery anxiety and less generator use on dark mornings when everyone wants a coffee and toast before work/school . we have solar hot water which is very very good . It’s a bit different being a roof top tank of 350 litres with wetback connected too but it means it’s gravity fed so we don’t have a water pump which is a considerable consumer of power . We have a 10,000 litre header tank for house supply and it’s only 10 meters higher than the house , 100 meters away under a tree and gives good pressure . we have fridge/freezer , chest freezer , TV , and all the usual plug and play equipment for various household tasks . 3kw is just enough but with lithium we will be sweet . Much smaller batteries needed because depth of discharge can be 80% compared to the 45% we have to stick to with the lead batteries . They also charge faster and partial charge won’t feck them up …works out we can now have more capacity for the almost half the price of what our lead batteries cost 5 years ago . Loving that post as it confirms my thoughts.
We have a 9.6kW, so 4.8kw usable day to day, back of good quality Gels in the shed system. Currently being feed by 2 x 100W panels but we have 4 x 390W PERC 1/2 cuts going up as soon as my fecking tractor bits all arrive, hopefully later this month. Changing the home paddock fences around and I'll mount the big one son top of that while we tune my tracker.
So we'll have less panels but more storage than you currently. Based on our huge 200W input currently we'll have more power than we need but then I did size it a bit larger due to as soon as the house is built that system will power everything except the house like the sheds and fencing. The house will have it's own stand alone solar system sized accordingly. The idea there being redundancy and nothing being 'pushed' as that does extend life spans. I went gels as they are simple just like the owner so we should get along well. Lithium adds complexity to it all I just didn't need. Hopefully by the time the house is ready to receive it's system lithium or lead crystal or maybe another will be a little more mature.
Talking solar water heating with a mate who has it in his big house with many occupants, which is in the burbs. He reckons it's good as long at it is in use. They have had to put in some extra gear to handle the system when no one is home as it keeps working and will boil unless used. For someone with his experience, he is a heating of things from water to state highway bridges* specialist, and his at home experience to say that has me thinking Hmmmm, maybe we'll stick to gas for water. I may put a small panel up to feed warm water thru the slab on the new place so my tooties are warm in winter 
* - he recently supplied all the gear to warm a new bridge built in the Sth Island on some new road or big upgrade to an existing. The idea being to stop ice forming on it over winter, it is curved and way way above the ground so one that if it goes wrong on you that's pretty much the end of your days.
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Post by GO30 on May 13, 2022 14:43:28 GMT 12
What do you think your annualized cost is for all of your energy needs, including the generator? Ahmm dunno . We are offgrid because we have to be …26k for solar as opposed to 100k to get power in to the site so don’t really fret about whether it’s saving money or not . It’s great when there’s a power cut though cause we can keep watching Netflix as our internet provider has a battery/solar powered radiowave repeater thingy-whatsit in the valley below us , never lost internet connection in 4 years . generator is diesel and would use maybe 100 litres per winter . We use LPG for cooking and go through 9kg in 6 weeks in summer and a bit less in winter as we use the wood stove for roasting/baking in winter The preliminary system for our house, 12 flash panels, 15.4KW (12.3 useable working on 80% DoD) of Lithium plus fancy inverter and all the bits needed is currently at nearly $24K plus installation of a few hours labour. If we went for Gels we were at 28.8kW (14.4 usable at 50% DoD) the price would drop to 18K. Includes GST. On to that I'll put a small stand by genny and the panels on a tracker.
Nova reckon the average Auckland lectricity bill is around $2300 per year so the system will pay itself off in 10-12 years working on todays numbers. Shortly payback will be even faster once the Govt muppets add in all the extra CC costs.
Why would you bother connecting to the grid?
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Post by em on May 13, 2022 19:49:34 GMT 12
Ahmm dunno . We are offgrid because we have to be …26k for solar as opposed to 100k to get power in to the site so don’t really fret about whether it’s saving money or not . It’s great when there’s a power cut though cause we can keep watching Netflix as our internet provider has a battery/solar powered radiowave repeater thingy-whatsit in the valley below us , never lost internet connection in 4 years . generator is diesel and would use maybe 100 litres per winter . We use LPG for cooking and go through 9kg in 6 weeks in summer and a bit less in winter as we use the wood stove for roasting/baking in winter The preliminary system for our house, 12 flash panels, 15.4KW (12.3 useable working on 80% DoD) of Lithium plus fancy inverter and all the bits needed is currently at nearly $24K plus installation of a few hours labour. If we went for Gels we were at 28.8kW (14.4 usable at 50% DoD) the price would drop to 18K. Includes GST. On to that I'll put a small stand by genny and the panels on a tracker.
Nova reckon the average Auckland lectricity bill is around $2300 per year so the system will pay itself off in 10-12 years working on todays numbers. Shortly payback will be even faster once the Govt muppets add in all the extra CC costs.
Why would you bother connecting to the grid?
We went for German Gels because lithium was still fairly new and super expensive . Having spent the last 4.5 years watching the data on the controller like a hawk I’m looking forward to just letting the System look after itself and not worry about the lithiums too much . Luckily our inverter and charge controllers can handle any type of battery so no extra gear is needed . Going for 3 X 3.5KW batteries which is heaps for our needs . that price is really good for that system considering we paid 26k and I did the ground Mount solar panel rack myself to save some coin and ran the wiring and data cables too . yeah why would you connect to the grid , but it does take a different mindset like doing the laundry and vacuum or whatever during the day when the panels can boost in the extra power as it’s needed …the girls like doing hot washes and the bloody washing machine draws 2.3kw to heat the water so that’s a sunny day activity only . |
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Post by ComfortZone on May 14, 2022 9:03:47 GMT 12
The preliminary system for our house, 12 flash panels, 15.4KW (12.3 useable working on 80% DoD) of Lithium plus fancy inverter and all the bits needed is currently at nearly $24K plus installation of a few hours labour. If we went for Gels we were at 28.8kW (14.4 usable at 50% DoD) the price would drop to 18K. Includes GST. On to that I'll put a small stand by genny and the panels on a tracker.
Nova reckon the average Auckland lectricity bill is around $2300 per year so the system will pay itself off in 10-12 years working on todays numbers. Shortly payback will be even faster once the Govt muppets add in all the extra CC costs.
Why would you bother connecting to the grid?
We went for German Gels because lithium was still fairly new and super expensive . Having spent the last 4.5 years watching the data on the controller like a hawk I’m looking forward to just letting the System look after itself and not worry about the lithiums too much . Luckily our inverter and charge controllers can handle any type of battery so no extra gear is needed . Going for 3 X 3.5KW batteries which is heaps for our needs . that price is really good for that system considering we paid 26k and I did the ground Mount solar panel rack myself to save some coin and ran the wiring and data cables too . yeah why would you connect to the grid , but it does take a different mindset like doing the laundry and vacuum or whatever during the day when the panels can boost in the extra power as it’s needed …the girls like doing hot washes and the bloody washing machine draws 2.3kw to heat the water so that’s a sunny day activity only . I assume you are on water tanks, does alot of use of the water pump knock your battery levels back on cloudy days? |
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Post by GO30 on May 14, 2022 11:40:26 GMT 12
We went for German Gels because lithium was still fairly new and super expensive . Having spent the last 4.5 years watching the data on the controller like a hawk I’m looking forward to just letting the System look after itself and not worry about the lithiums too much . Luckily our inverter and charge controllers can handle any type of battery so no extra gear is needed . Going for 3 X 3.5KW batteries which is heaps for our needs . that price is really good for that system considering we paid 26k and I did the ground Mount solar panel rack myself to save some coin and ran the wiring and data cables too . yeah why would you connect to the grid , but it does take a different mindset like doing the laundry and vacuum or whatever during the day when the panels can boost in the extra power as it’s needed …the girls like doing hot washes and the bloody washing machine draws 2.3kw to heat the water so that’s a sunny day activity only . I assume you are on water tanks, does alot of use of the water pump knock your battery levels back on cloudy days? I have developed 'watching the controller' syndrome as well. I love watching the Kwh tick up but I have to turn on the big 240 lights and everything so I can drain the bank a bit get get the kwhs rocking.
Have your Gels stood up well? I have a smaller Gel I've been using for near on 15 years now, the thing is a freak.
The Lithium they suggested were 2.5kw powerwall looking things running at 51V by ARK I think it was. The shed native is 24V (all the gear I had/have is 9-32V) but the house will probably be 48V.
System costs are plummeting. What I paid for my 2 x 100W semi-flexibles some years back got me 3.2 x 390W last year. Not far different for the controller as well. Also the gear around the stuff is coming back as everyone piles onto the green gravy train. I did my own install, she's effective even if not that pleasant on the eye. Today I'm going to modify so it looks prettier. Awesome fun learning and doing though, I'm enjoying it greatly.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
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Post by em on May 14, 2022 11:41:05 GMT 12
We went for German Gels because lithium was still fairly new and super expensive . Having spent the last 4.5 years watching the data on the controller like a hawk I’m looking forward to just letting the System look after itself and not worry about the lithiums too much . Luckily our inverter and charge controllers can handle any type of battery so no extra gear is needed . Going for 3 X 3.5KW batteries which is heaps for our needs . that price is really good for that system considering we paid 26k and I did the ground Mount solar panel rack myself to save some coin and ran the wiring and data cables too . yeah why would you connect to the grid , but it does take a different mindset like doing the laundry and vacuum or whatever during the day when the panels can boost in the extra power as it’s needed …the girls like doing hot washes and the bloody washing machine draws 2.3kw to heat the water so that’s a sunny day activity only . I assume you are on water tanks, does alot of use of the water pump knock your battery levels back on cloudy days? We never put a pump in . Having lived in an on grid house with a waterpump it’s amazing how many times a day you will hear the pump start up , at least a hundred on a weekend day . yep water tanks . Main tank is down low at the barn , there is a Davies piston pump with a petrol motor on it that pumps up to the header tank when needed …1 litre of petrol will pump 10,000 litres of water up to the header tank at fast idle . |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2022 11:45:10 GMT 12
I assume you are on water tanks, does alot of use of the water pump knock your battery levels back on cloudy days? I have developed 'watching the controller' syndrome as well. I love watching the Kwh tick up but I have to turn on the big 240 lights and everything so I can drain the bank a bit get get the kwhs rocking.
Have your Gels stood up well? I have a smaller Gel I've been using for near on 15 years now, the thing is a freak.
The Lithium they suggested were 2.5kw powerwall looking things running at 51V by ARK I think it was. The shed native is 24V (all the gear I had/have is 9-32V) but the house will probably be 48V.
System costs are plummeting. What I paid for my 2 x 100W semi-flexibles some years back got me 3.2 x 390W last year. Not far different for the controller as well. Also the gear around the stuff is coming back as everyone piles onto the green gravy train. I did my own install, she's effective even if not that pleasant on the eye. Today I'm going to modify so it looks prettier. Awesome fun learning and doing though, I'm enjoying it greatly.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
You need a creek then you can drivert the water to run the drive unit out of a smart FnP washing machine to help generate power. Had a old machine here and a greenie type turned up and exactly what he wanted was the drive unit.Easy to generate power apparently. |
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Post by em on May 14, 2022 11:53:35 GMT 12
I assume you are on water tanks, does alot of use of the water pump knock your battery levels back on cloudy days? I have developed 'watching the controller' syndrome as well. I love watching the Kwh tick up but I have to turn on the big 240 lights and everything so I can drain the bank a bit get get the kwhs rocking.
Have your Gels stood up well? I have a smaller Gel I've been using for near on 15 years now, the thing is a freak.
The Lithium they suggested were 2.5kw powerwall looking things running at 51V by ARK I think it was. The shed native is 24V (all the gear I had/have is 9-32V) but the house will probably be 48V.
System costs are plummeting. What I paid for my 2 x 100W semi-flexibles some years back got me 3.2 x 390W last year. Not far different for the controller as well. Also the gear around the stuff is coming back as everyone piles onto the green gravy train. I did my own install, she's effective even if not that pleasant on the eye. Today I'm going to modify so it looks prettier. Awesome fun learning and doing though, I'm enjoying it greatly.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
No the Gels haven’t stood up well but that’s not their fault . I knew bugger all about solar when we got the system installed and the installers were on a learning curve to it seems . DOD was not set up properly and nether were the charge parameters so we spent a whole summer not knowing that we were discharging the batteries way too much . Got that sorted then the system went at least 6-8 months in winter of only being charged by half the solar panels because the breaker to the other string had “broken” and I wasn’t keeping an eye on things . after all that I started keeping an eye on the system very closely but the damage was done I think . We have good quality outback brand kit all round so hopefully if we can get some good LifeP04 batteries it will be Plain sailing for at least 5 years hopefully more . I like the fact that lithiums are happy to be charged to any % and don’t need an absorb stage , that’s what is difficult in winter is getting the Gel batteries up to 90 odd percent then having a good few hours of sun on absorb to let the charge soak in . |
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Post by GO30 on May 14, 2022 11:56:03 GMT 12
You need a creek then you can drivert the water to run the drive unit out of a smart FnP washing machine to help generate power. Had a old machine here and a greenie type turned up and exactly what he wanted was the drive unit.Easy to generate power apparently. Have a creek and are already onto that one. Also wind is in the mix but from what we're seeing in our solar system we're really beginning to wonder if we need any extra.
Just thinking if we can run an entire household with all it entails on a 14.4kw bank, some even smaller, and have shit loads of reserve then EV cars are pretty damn inefficient. A limp arse grade Nissan leaf needs a 14.4 bank just to get to bowls and back.
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Post by em on May 14, 2022 11:56:18 GMT 12
I have developed 'watching the controller' syndrome as well. I love watching the Kwh tick up but I have to turn on the big 240 lights and everything so I can drain the bank a bit get get the kwhs rocking.
Have your Gels stood up well? I have a smaller Gel I've been using for near on 15 years now, the thing is a freak.
The Lithium they suggested were 2.5kw powerwall looking things running at 51V by ARK I think it was. The shed native is 24V (all the gear I had/have is 9-32V) but the house will probably be 48V.
System costs are plummeting. What I paid for my 2 x 100W semi-flexibles some years back got me 3.2 x 390W last year. Not far different for the controller as well. Also the gear around the stuff is coming back as everyone piles onto the green gravy train. I did my own install, she's effective even if not that pleasant on the eye. Today I'm going to modify so it looks prettier. Awesome fun learning and doing though, I'm enjoying it greatly.
Currently our water pump is Jabsco 'on demand', will do 40psi and 11lts per minute, max Amps is 3.5 @ 12V. It's just a Jabcso I brought from Blusty and Lundell. I have a pussy grade camping califont so didn't want to explode it with too much pressure or volume but that does get us good pressure and a hose that will squirt just as far as our city one. Watercare only guarantee at least 25psi and 25lt per minute even if they do they do try do give more. While that is plenty of pressure and volume we will have bigger in the house supplementing a gravity feed.
You need a creek then you can drivert the water to run the drive unit out of a smart FnP washing machine to help generate power. Had a old machine here and a greenie type turned up and exactly what he wanted was the drive unit.Easy to generate power apparently. I looked high and low for a property suitable for that but it’s damn difficult to have the water flow and a decent house site close by …any more than 50 meters and it doesn’t really stack up , you start getting voltage drop . We have a perfect creek but it’s 800 metres away and 150meters lower elevation than the house |
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Post by em on May 14, 2022 12:01:01 GMT 12
You need a creek then you can drivert the water to run the drive unit out of a smart FnP washing machine to help generate power. Had a old machine here and a greenie type turned up and exactly what he wanted was the drive unit.Easy to generate power apparently. Have a creek and are already onto that one. Also wind is in the mix but from what we're seeing in our solar system we're really beginning to wonder if we need any extra.
Just thinking if we can run an entire household with all it entails on a 14.4kw bank, some even smaller, and have shit loads of reserve then EV cars are pretty damn inefficient. A limp arse grade Nissan leaf needs a 14.4 bank just to get to bowls and back.
That would be heaps of storage for a “normal” house hold but not with a spa pool or heat pumps or electric oven ! just had a good look at wind and it’s not great for us , it’s great on boats or tiny homes but the big models cost shit loads and the output is lame for the $$ spent . I had two AirX marines on the motor home when I was building the house and they were great especially at night time in bad weather but that system was small . They both needed yaw bearings replaced after two years of chasing the breeze in circles …easy enough changing the bearings but taking the tower down wasn’t much fun and busted some blades which cost a bit to replace . |
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