Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 16:19:03 GMT 12
www.maritimenz.govt.nz/public/news/media-releases-2022/20220530a.aspJae-Ho Huh was sentenced on 27 May in the Auckland District Court after earlier pleading guilty to one charge under the Maritime Transport Act. He was prosecuted after his 11-metre launch, with three people aboard, collided with the schooner SV Arcturus. The collision occurred between Rangitoto Island and St Heliers in Auckland in March 2020. At the time, the launch was travelling under auto-pilot at between 15 and 20 knots (28-37 km/h). Mr Huh has been fined $ $3,900 and ordered to pay reparations for consequential loss totalling $18,537.94, and additional reparation for emotional harm of $500 per victim.
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Post by fish on May 31, 2022 22:21:21 GMT 12
Better than nothing, and they only took 2 yrs to deal with it... (very quick in the current justice system, if you can call it that)
Interestingly, the bulk of the fine, $18,540, was for consequential loss.
All up, we are still talking $28k of fines. Noting there was 12 on the yacht, so $500 each is $6k.
You wont see fines like $28k for crashing your car, drunk or drug driving, or killing people. So on that measure it isn't too bad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2022 4:27:41 GMT 12
Do we need some sort of regulation on size/speed when guying a vessel,bit like a drivers licence,still nothing stopping a new restricted driver buying the lastest ferrari, With boats there is no ticket system or regulation on size just your bank balance. Buy 80ft friday night awa saturday with no idea.
Not too many boating considering.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 1, 2022 9:12:00 GMT 12
Do we need some sort of regulation on size/speed when guying a vessel,bit like a drivers licence,still nothing stopping a new restricted driver buying the lastest ferrari, With boats there is no ticket system or regulation on size just your bank balance. Buy 80ft friday night awa saturday with no idea. Not too many boating considering. The last thing we need in our lives is more regulations and another license, even though I still hold a Recreational Boat license from Western Australia. Jim Lott ran a study some years ago when there were still some shreds of common sense in MNZ and the conclusion was the benefit just was not there, education was judged to be the better approach. Yes , there are some idiots in recreational boats, but also plenty of incidents with commercial boats/skippers (Mikhael Lemantov, Rena, Enchanter. to name a few) and if you look at any of the Youtube channels with boat crashes, the vast majority are in countries with recreational licenses. |
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Post by fish on Jun 1, 2022 12:09:06 GMT 12
Do we need some sort of regulation on size/speed when guying a vessel,bit like a drivers licence,still nothing stopping a new restricted driver buying the lastest ferrari, With boats there is no ticket system or regulation on size just your bank balance. Buy 80ft friday night awa saturday with no idea. Not too many boating considering. No. You can injure as many people crashing a trailer fizz boat at 20 knts as you can a launch at 20 knts. And the great irony, the uneducated are going to be safer in a larger boat, regards sea-state, weather etc. I would just be thankful that actual accidents are not that common here, yet. And besides, if you put a size limit on first boats, everyone would just get jet-ski's... One of the most dangerous and annoying water craft you can get. That would be the ultimate in unintended consequences. |
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w44vi
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Post by w44vi on Jun 1, 2022 19:06:36 GMT 12
Maybe we need training or a license for boats that can go over 10kts
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Post by Fogg on Jun 1, 2022 19:58:29 GMT 12
Maybe we need training or a license for boats that can go over 10kts I think something like that could make sense. Or maybe linked to size / weight? Certainly a badly driven fizz boat has potential to cause damage / harm but a badly driven 10-15m launch has even more potential. Sailing boats are obviously not immune either but their innately slower speeds makes them less of a peril to others in the wrong hands. |
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Post by Fogg on Jun 1, 2022 20:03:27 GMT 12
I forget which countries do it but some have a system that links on-the-water offences to their driving license. Again, this isn’t perfect but it’s a pragmatic approach because probably the vast majority of people driving a boat will also have a vehicle driving license.
And if they knew that an infringement on the water would lead to demerit points / suspension of their driving license, it might be an incentives to be a bit more careful at sea.
And it wouldn’t require heavy regulation or testing or licensing to make it happen - just introduce a rule that links boating behaviour to your driving license (if you have one).
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Post by fish on Jun 1, 2022 21:30:59 GMT 12
What problem are we trying to solve here?
There was one incident, over 2 years ago.
No-one died.
The guy got a $28k fine.
In the time since this incident occurred, about 800 people have died on the roads due to the same thing - inattention.
Given the current woke 'kind' society we live in, a $28k fine is fucken massive. I'm surprised the guy didn't get community service, or forced by the Court to do a CG Day Skipper course as penance. That type of sentence is very common, and far closer to what I would have expected.
We don't need more rules, regulations, or licenses. They have been shown not to work overseas. You are far more likely to get killed driving to the boat, than get killed by the actions of another boatie on the water.
Contrast this incident with Anteous & Gypsy. Highly experienced skipper with thousands of miles, manages to T bone another yacht, sinking it and causing injury. Would licensing or demerit points have had any bearing on that incident?
I think a bit of perspective is called for.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 2, 2022 8:18:51 GMT 12
Contrast this incident with Anteous & Gypsy. Highly experienced skipper with thousands of miles, manages to T bone another yacht, sinking it and causing injury. Would licensing or demerit points have had any bearing on that incident? I think a bit of perspective is called for. And wasn't this the classic case of us not all being equal in the eyes of the law, in spite of the Gypsy crew member being seriously injured (fortunately she has recovered, you see her buzzing around in the orange double ender "Tuna" from her home at Nth Cove, Kawau), the fine imposed on Chuckles was a paltry $200 (thanks to MNZ conveniently passing the case onto Auckland Council's harbour master and this being the "maximum" he could impose), less than he would pay for a good bottle of wine at dinner. |
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Post by armchairadmiral on Jun 2, 2022 8:40:13 GMT 12
Bit harsh there CZ.In incidents like this there are a lot more "penalties" than the court/harbourmaster can impose. And no,I don't know either party involved.
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Post by ComfortZone on Jun 2, 2022 10:09:31 GMT 12
Bit harsh there CZ.In incidents like this there are a lot more "penalties" than the court/harbourmaster can impose. And no,I don't know either party involved. Some years ago a mate of mine was on the helm (he was not the skipper) of a launch and he hit a mark at night on Auckland harbour whose light had failed. Did some damage to the boat and injured the skipper who was down below. MNZ threw the book at both he and the skipper, and the harbour master when giving evidence (as did the skipper of the responding Coastguard boat) tried to dodge around the question whether the light was functioning or not. The judge saw thru what MNZ was up to, but said in summary they did hit the mark and my mate and the skipper each finished with a criminal conviction on their records. |
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Post by fish on Jun 2, 2022 11:33:50 GMT 12
Bit harsh there CZ.In incidents like this there are a lot more "penalties" than the court/harbourmaster can impose. And no,I don't know either party involved. Anteous's skipper suffered substantial reputational loss and embarrassment. But that is only because he was well known and well connected. i.e. he had a reputation in the first place. I've never heard of this guy who crashed the launch, and if I came across him in day to day life, almost definitely wouldn't connect him to this incident. BUT, there is a massive perception of legal double standards here, and CZ is right on the money. Chuckles did escape with a minimal fine. This guy on the launch got a $28k fine. Relevant to the OP and the title of this thread, which incident was worse, and which penalty is the greatest deterrent? Now, getting back to the call for licensing of boaties: How bad would you say this incident was? Road analogy, I'd say a bad re-ender, causing the innocent car to roll, but no injuries. i.e. people seriously scared and shaken up, actual risk to life, but no injuries or death. On the yacht, one person was thrown into the water, and two jumped into the water, so that is dangerous. There are no comments on the extent of damage to either boat, nor any other details as to why the launch skipper was distracted. One key point to highlight - have there been any other incidents like this in the last 2 years (not counting lockdowns)? I'm not aware of any. The odd diver or swimmer gets run over (by professional skippers), but how many collisions are there? Northcote ferries collided. Again, professional skippers - licensing recreational skippers wont fix that... |
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Post by armchairadmiral on Jun 2, 2022 12:19:31 GMT 12
I was referring to the Antaeus incident not the launch incident!
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Post by fish on Jun 2, 2022 12:30:35 GMT 12
I was referring to the Antaeus incident not the launch incident! Yes, that is how I took it. Antaeus got a $200 fine, but Charles had a major fall from grace and substantial reputational loss. Launch guy got a $28k fine. I assumed you were referring to more "penalties" than the court imposed being Charles fall from grace? |
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