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Post by eri on Mar 9, 2023 13:58:22 GMT 12
it's all permissible now because the police and courts are so very, very reluctant to arrest and sentence youth "They claimed a teenager who lives across the road from them had grabbed a stick and was going along the street smashing cars.
By the time they went outside to check their car, they saw the teenager and a group of 10 people confronting a neighbour from a few houses down.
The neighbour, a young man, was saying: “Why are you damaging innocent people’s cars”, a woman from the couple told the Herald.
The group responded by saying: “Well, do something about it, fight us,” but the pair were heavily outnumbered as up to 25 people - a mix of adults and youths - came from the house across the road, she said.
People from the group started throwing punches at her, and when her partner tried to protect her by pulling her behind him, they also turned on him, she claimed.
“They got him right in the face and then they hit him a few more times and he went down and then they just started kicking him in the head,” she claimed.
“And then I jumped on him to cover his head and they just started stomping my head into the ground.”
Members of the group also threatened to shoot her and her partner, she said.
She claimed the man was allegedly stabbed in the fight." ...guessing these are housing nz clients, unemployed + bored with spending their dole on drugs and booze? will they get evicted from the street they now rule in fear? probably not HNZ will at first deny there is an issue and if it's pursued admit that these clients present "challenging behaviors" and will be talked to got to keep the jails empty and crims on the streetbut if they're not stopped now, some of them will continue to the point of murderterrorists find it's easier to break a civil society than build one and leftist utopians should know, they've broken more than their fair share of civil societies www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/glen-eden-residents-violently-attacked-by-neighbours-victims-stabbed-kicked-and-stomped-on/7M2HAP5J5NHDZBT7QQCVYXPKYE/
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Post by eri on Mar 9, 2023 14:56:10 GMT 12
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Post by armchairadmiral on Mar 9, 2023 15:11:36 GMT 12
Why restrict it to first responders ? Do the crime - do the time. We're heartily sick of sob stories at the courts, where at least we get to hear said stories. IMO most who say sorry mean they're sorry they got caught. Imagine the stories at parole hearings. All the sad circumstances don't do it. While you're in there you aren't doing it to innocent unsuspecting public. It's good enough for Scott Watson then there's your precedent. Agree few get 'corrected' but until we get something that actually works then stay with prisons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 17:04:19 GMT 12
Why restrict it to first responders ? Do the crime - do the time. We're heartily sick of sob stories at the courts, where at least we get to hear said stories. IMO most who say sorry mean they're sorry they got caught. Imagine the stories at parole hearings. All the sad circumstances don't do it. While you're in there you aren't doing it to innocent unsuspecting public. It's good enough for Scott Watson then there's your precedent. Agree few get 'corrected' but until we get something that actually works then stay with prisons. Got to admire "Scott Watson" stance, could of been released yrs ago if he admitted to the crime but he claims innocence so stays in jail.
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 9, 2023 17:46:23 GMT 12
Why restrict it to first responders ? Do the crime - do the time. We're heartily sick of sob stories at the courts, where at least we get to hear said stories. IMO most who say sorry mean they're sorry they got caught. Imagine the stories at parole hearings. All the sad circumstances don't do it. While you're in there you aren't doing it to innocent unsuspecting public. It's good enough for Scott Watson then there's your precedent. Agree few get 'corrected' but until we get something that actually works then stay with prisons. Got to admire "Scott Watson" stance, could of been released yrs ago if he admitted to the crime but he claims innocence so stays in jail. Yep, one of the main reasons that Watson remains in prison is his refusal to admit to the murders. In New Zealand, prisoners who show remorse and take responsibility for their crimes are often granted parole earlier than those who do not. Watson's refusal to accept responsibility for the murders has been cited by the Parole Board as a reason for denying him parole. While Watson's supporters argue that he is innocent and that the evidence against him was circumstantial, the fact remains that he has been convicted by a jury of his peers and all of his appeals have been unsuccessful. Until he is willing to accept responsibility for his actions and show remorse, it is unlikely that he will be granted parole or released from prison. He has had four parole hearings, his next is October. But in May '23 he will be back in court, (probably virtually), for another, possibly his last, opportunity to get his name cleared.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Mar 10, 2023 10:46:08 GMT 12
Thread drift BUT. Just think what if he didn't do it. I've read the court transcripts and based on those I wouldn't have convicted him. Agreed that doesn't mean he didn't but imagine what it would be like to be locked up for that long if he is innocent. The system often breaks innocent people who admit to something they didn't do just to get out..He's done nearly 24 years and compared to some arseholes who have done heinous crimes and are back amongst us because they are 'corrected'. Pleased they're not next door !
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 10, 2023 12:11:04 GMT 12
Thread drift BUT. Just think what if he didn't do it. I've read the court transcripts and based on those I wouldn't have convicted him. Agreed that doesn't mean he didn't but imagine what it would be like to be locked up for that long if he is innocent. The system often breaks innocent people who admit to something they didn't do just to get out..He's done nearly 24 years and compared to some arseholes who have done heinous crimes and are back amongst us because they are 'corrected'. Pleased they're not next door ! Ah, the idea of a jury of your peers... A flawed concept if there ever was one. Why should your fate be left in the hands of a group of ordinary, fallible humans? What if they're biased, or have their own agendas? What if they're just plain stupid? A jury of your peers is nothing more than a group of strangers who know nothing about you, and who are often swayed by irrelevant factors such as race, gender, or social status. It's a system designed to make you feel like you're being judged by your equals, when in reality you're at the mercy of chance and circumstance. Its really a jury made up of people that were too fucking dumb to be able to write a letter to get out of jury service. It's a flawed system that often leads to wrongful convictions and perpetuates systemic injustices. Get rid of jurys and just let the police decide.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Mar 10, 2023 12:23:53 GMT 12
Police ?Really ? People like Hutton ? Now there's a good idea. Decide who did it then plant the evidence to get the conviction. You had me up 'til that bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 12:38:04 GMT 12
Police ?Really ? People like Hutton ? Now there's a good idea. Decide who did it then plant the evidence to get the conviction. You had me up 'til that bit. Those in the know have passed on. Did David Baine kill the family or was it his father??
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 10, 2023 12:51:23 GMT 12
Police ?Really ? People like Hutton ? Now there's a good idea. Decide who did it then plant the evidence to get the conviction. You had me up 'til that bit. Those in the know have passed on. Did David Baine kill the family or was it his father?? The question of whether David Bain or his father Robin Bain was responsible for the Bain family murders remains unresolved, with no clear evidence pointing to either of them.
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 10, 2023 13:00:05 GMT 12
Police ?Really ? People like Hutton ? Now there's a good idea. Decide who did it then plant the evidence to get the conviction. You had me up 'til that bit. That particular aspect was BS. I want to make it clear that I do not support the dissolution of the justice system. The fundamental issue is that the jury of your peers concept has some pretty major flaws, but there is no alternative that has been deemed suitable enough to replace it. There have been discussions and proposals for alternatives to the current jury system, including the use of professional jurors, specialized juries, or even the replacement of the entire jury system with a judge-only system. Professional jurors could be individuals who are trained and paid to serve as jurors, providing a higher level of expertise and consistency in their decisions. Specialized juries could be used in cases where specialized knowledge or experience is required, such as in cases involving intellectual property disputes or medical malpractice. A judge-only system would involve having the judge make the decision without the input of a jury. However, each of these alternatives has its own set of advantages and disadvantages, and further research and discussion would be required to determine which alternative, if any, would be suitable to replace the current jury system.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 13:14:21 GMT 12
Those in the know have passed on. Did David Baine kill the family or was it his father?? The question of whether David Bain or his father Robin Bain was responsible for the Bain family murders remains unresolved, with no clear evidence pointing to either of them. Correct on Bain Family .But why did David recieve a pay out if he was not innocent?? He has not been pardon so should not of got a pay out. Not even the ex gratia payment as the Judges states"high probability"
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 10, 2023 13:28:41 GMT 12
The question of whether David Bain or his father Robin Bain was responsible for the Bain family murders remains unresolved, with no clear evidence pointing to either of them. Correct on Bain Family .But why did David recieve a pay out if he was not innocent?? He has not been pardon so should not of got a pay out. Not even the ex gratia payment as the Judges states"high probability" David Bain registered as a Maori to obtain special privileges and benefits from the government. He claimed to have indigenous ancestry and used this as a basis for his compensation claim. The government, eager to promote Maori rights and reconciliation, readily granted his application and awarded him the payout. This was seen as a way of acknowledging the historical wrongs committed against the Maori people and was viewed as a positive step towards healing and reconciliation.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Mar 10, 2023 15:23:01 GMT 12
Source ? I've never heard that (which doesn't mean it's not true )
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Post by DuckMaster on Mar 10, 2023 15:37:24 GMT 12
Source ? I've never heard that (which doesn't mean it's not true ) It's not true. :-) It is awesome to see you questioning the information you are presented with. David Bain received a compensation payout from the New Zealand government after being acquitted of the murder charges. After David Bain was found not guilty in his 2009 retrial, he applied for compensation for the 13 years he spent in prison. In 2012, the New Zealand government granted his application and awarded him NZ$925,000 as compensation for wrongful conviction and imprisonment. The government made the compensation payment on the basis that David Bain was "factually innocent" of the murders, meaning that the government accepted that he did not commit the crimes for which he was convicted and imprisoned. The payout was controversial and generated debate in New Zealand, with some people supporting it as appropriate compensation for an innocent man who had been wrongly imprisoned, and others arguing that it was unjustified given the ongoing uncertainty about who was responsible for the murders.
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