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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 5:08:04 GMT 12
Once again DOC/MPI calling for submissions on the Hauraki Gulf, placement of trawling. To stop the destruction of reef systems as Legasea likes to call it,but reality they trawl over sand/mud and been working same corridors for a numbers of yrs with good results. Same as plowing up potato fields in pukekohe and still able to grow potatoes 50yrs on.
Pushing comms further out to the outer gulf and certain areas only going to effect the price of fresh supply to nz stores,wont affect the export pricing by too much.
The inner gulf has had no comm activity for over 40 yrs so who has stuffed the inner gulf?you and I.But we wont modify(some of us have)our methods
Read recently we export our bait fish,caught by seiners,for $2.50kg but at the same time we import fish bait from Madagascar, so are we not part if the global problem?
Currently there is deal before the Commerce commision,Sandford to sell their share of ACE to Moana fisheries,so with out another treaty claim,the iwi based company could carry on fishing in areas doc/mpi want to lock off?
The High protection areas(HPA) will still be available to IWI for customary rights,so another race based decision.
There has been a lot of promotion of Lee /Liegh fisheries by Legasea as to how sustainable they are due to longlining only.That is a absolute lie,lee fisheries have on contract a number of seiners/trawlers working to supply the domestic market and the bit legasea has failed to tell the public the company is owned by Foodstuffs,so foodstuffs interest is to supply at the cheapest rate and gouge up the prices,while using longlines for the export market where iki fish gets top $$ Incidently where do the longliners get the bait from?? their own seiners.
The onlu way forward is DOC/MPI grows some balls and say The marine park is closed to all for 3 to 5yrs.Wont effect me. why?? $3 lt fuel cheaper to buy fish. Sounds expensive $44kg snapper but more than feeds the family,lots of cheaper and versitile fish on the market,Whats it to feed a family now on Maccas/takeaways?
Everyones concern that it will encourage those to travel further a field to other areas and put more pressure on fisheries. Will it,days fishing + accomodation looking at a weekend away of about $400 buy a lot fish for that. Fortnights groceries?
Saturday rant over
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Post by fish on Sept 2, 2023 9:41:48 GMT 12
Once again DOC/MPI calling for submissions on the Hauraki Gulf, placement of trawling. To stop the destruction of reef systems as Legasea likes to call it,but reality they trawl over sand/mud and been working same corridors for a numbers of yrs with good results. Same as plowing up potato fields in pukekohe and still able to grow potatoes 50yrs on. Pushing comms further out to the outer gulf and certain areas only going to effect the price of fresh supply to nz stores,wont affect the export pricing by too much. The inner gulf has had no comm activity for over 40 yrs so who has stuffed the inner gulf?you and I.But we wont modify(some of us have)our methods Read recently we export our bait fish,caught by seiners,for $2.50kg but at the same time we import fish bait from Madagascar, so are we not part if the global problem? Currently there is deal before the Commerce commision,Sandford to sell their share of ACE to Moana fisheries,so with out another treaty claim,the iwi based company could carry on fishing in areas doc/mpi want to lock off? The High protection areas(HPA) will still be available to IWI for customary rights,so another race based decision. There has been a lot of promotion of Lee /Liegh fisheries by Legasea as to how sustainable they are due to longlining only.That is a absolute lie,lee fisheries have on contract a number of seiners/trawlers working to supply the domestic market and the bit legasea has failed to tell the public the company is owned by Foodstuffs,so foodstuffs interest is to supply at the cheapest rate and gouge up the prices,while using longlines for the export market where iki fish gets top $$ Incidently where do the longliners get the bait from?? their own seiners. The onlu way forward is DOC/MPI grows some balls and say The marine park is closed to all for 3 to 5yrs.Wont effect me. why?? $3 lt fuel cheaper to buy fish. Sounds expensive $44kg snapper but more than feeds the family,lots of cheaper and versitile fish on the market,Whats it to feed a family now on Maccas/takeaways? Everyones concern that it will encourage those to travel further a field to other areas and put more pressure on fisheries. Will it,days fishing + accomodation looking at a weekend away of about $400 buy a lot fish for that. Fortnights groceries? Saturday rant over HT, do you dive? Have you ever seen how much life there is on a sandy bottom? Not necessarily fish life, but all the little things, worms, crabs, nubibranches, sponges etc? I can catch my quota with less than 2l petrol. And I bet you a good bottle of whisky you can't actually but snapper fillets for $44/kg. I haven't seen it under $50 for some time. $59/kg is not unheard of. Besides, I think snapper is over rated. I'm a kahawai fan myself. Much more sporting fight, smokes amazing and good for pies and fishcakes that the kids like. Yes that same fish we were selling to Aust for cray bait at $2/kg until the 'people' got together and put a stop to the nonsense. |
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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 9:59:36 GMT 12
Ky still being sold as craybait,NW has snapper fillets at $44 kg,you do realise trawled snapper is not on bottom,mid water no contact,only time they contact bottom inshore is for the gurnard/jd current trawl line is leigh outside tiri to gannet rock waiheke and across to happy jack.Most trawling is occuring bream head to cape colville so in outer gulf. Longlining I have a big issue with,witnessed a yr or 2 back Tiri to Orewa across to Motora back to tiri,4 longliners were in a box style section.each vessel can lay 3000 or more hooks(tauranga vesels lay 6/7000 in season)taking far than the 120kg trawlers get.
LL is the export market.
I just want advocacy groups and comms to actually sit at the table and work out the best solution for all,rather govt interfernce got to stop playing comm v recc blame game.
This a conversation that I had yesterday with Tindale marine research.
Trawling has taken place in the hauraki gulf for over 100 years. Just like plowing fields in pukekohe to grow potatoes... plowed the same paddock for 80 years.
Barry Torkinton at legasea was ceo of Leigh fisheries. Longlines have highest bycatch of protected species and require bait caught by trawlers and seiners.
The science shows recreational fishers currently catch 98% of the fish in the Hauraki gulf,
Invasive seaweed arrived by container ships and is spread by recreational Boaties anchoring and moving around the gulf
And there are over 2 million recreational boats in NZ
Legasea are just interested in getting rid of commercial fishing so they can have it all. Don't want recreational to change old habits. Inner gulf has been recreational only for 46 years and is in the worst condition ever but still want to blame coms
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Post by fish on Sept 2, 2023 10:16:25 GMT 12
,you do realise trawled snapper is not on bottom,mid water no contact,only time they contact bottom inshore is for the gurnard/jd You do realise this complete destroys your arguement against a ban for trawling? You said it's cheaper to buy snapper than catch it, and banning bottom trawling would only increase the price of snapper. Now you say snapper isn't bottom trawled. So its not going to be affected. Doesn't sound like you've fully thought through what you are argueing. |
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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 11:40:34 GMT 12
They want to move trawlers further out so costs will rise.But all is not lost as Sanfords are selling their inshore quota to Moana who will be able to fish where they like unless theres another treaty settlement.
Its not my arguement,its advocacy groups who have never stepped foot on a trawler just purely want commercial gone,Despite what they say they are anti comms and Sam Woolford is bloody clear on that when he speaks on tv.How can the fresh water run off dragging silt etc over the cockle beds/worm beds be blamed on comm fishing activity??
We export bait fish to Africa for $2.50kg and yet we import it for bait,so that makes us part of the problem too.
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The Noises
Sept 2, 2023 13:37:57 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by Fogg on Sept 2, 2023 13:37:57 GMT 12
I’m in favour of converting the entire Hauraki Gulf into a protected marine park ie no taking at all. And see what happens after 2-3 yrs to the entire ecosystem.
Anyone who wants to fish can relocate.
And enforce it rigorously via big fines.
I expect I’m a lonely voice but I feel strongly enough about it that’s what I would do if I was ‘King for a Day’.
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Post by fish on Sept 2, 2023 13:43:44 GMT 12
They want to move trawlers further out so costs will rise.But all is not lost as Sanfords are selling their inshore quota to Moana who will be able to fish where they like unless theres another treaty settlement. Its not my arguement,its advocacy groups who have never stepped foot on a trawler just purely want commercial gone,Despite what they say they are anti comms and Sam Woolford is bloody clear on that when he speaks on tv.How can the fresh water run off dragging silt etc over the cockle beds/worm beds be blamed on comm fishing activity?? We export bait fish to Africa for $2.50kg and yet we import it for bait,so that makes us part of the problem too. You don't need to step foot on a trawler to understand what is going on. You need to dive down where they have been and see the damage. Your analogy of Puke Potato's is embarrassingly wrong. Potato's have a thing called chlorophyll. They use it to photosynthesize energy from the sun. At the same time they take carbon dioxide from the air and turn it into carbon for the plant, which becomes the potato tuber that we eat. So you can plough a paddock time and time again, it doesn't impact the two main elements that potato's use to grow. Sun and CO2. Note sure if you are aware, but fish don't have chlorophyll. They can't photosynthesize energy from the sun. They have to eat things that have already done that. In the marine environment that starts off with red and brown algae's and krill. It goes up through the food chain to the point where fish eat them. The problem with bottom trawling is it destroys the environment of the things that the fish eat. Worms, crabs, nubibranches, mussles etc. Surely you understand that mussle beds can't grow if heavy steel grates, balls and cables are dragged over them every other week? I'd absolutely love to see your Pukekohe potato paddocks if someone came along and dragged steel cables and nets over them twice a week. You sure wont be having chips, tatty's or what ever you like to call them for dinner, cause they can't grow if they keep on getting destroyed. Same as all the items on the sea floor. |
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The Noises
Sept 2, 2023 15:17:21 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by Fogg on Sept 2, 2023 15:17:21 GMT 12
An acre of seaweed absorbs way more carbon and produces way more oxygen than an acre of forests
If you really believe we need to fix the O2 / CO2 thing then it’s no contest - switch focus to protecting more oceans than forests.
Trouble is, deforestation is easier to see and apportion blame to. Whereas barren seabeds are harder to evidence. But overfishing is a big cause because it disrupts the predator hierarchy enabling more seaweed eating micro-organisms to flourish too much.
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Post by fish on Sept 2, 2023 16:06:07 GMT 12
An acre of seaweed absorbs way more carbon and produces way more oxygen than an acre of forests If you really believe we need to fix the O2 / CO2 thing then it’s no contest - switch focus to protecting more oceans than forests. Trouble is, deforestation is easier to see and apportion blame to. Whereas barren seabeds are harder to evidence. But overfishing is a big cause because it disrupts the predator hierarchy enabling more seaweed eating micro-organisms to flourish too much. You'd have to believe that climate change is man made to premise anything on that. Currently it looks like a handy excuse for the govt to impose some more taxes. But yes, there is massive logic in doing more for the oceans with regards CC. Can't see a downside to banning bottom trawling in any of that. Ban taking crays, as they predate on kina. Remove the Toanga status of kina, and allows wholesale smashing / taking of them. What else? |
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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 16:38:52 GMT 12
I’m in favour of converting the entire Hauraki Gulf into a protected marine park ie no taking at all. And see what happens after 2-3 yrs to the entire ecosystem. Anyone who wants to fish can relocate. And enforce it rigorously via big fines. I expect I’m a lonely voice but I feel strongly enough about it that’s what I would do if I was ‘King for a Day’. And thats all it will take to replenish. 3yr ban for all. |
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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 16:43:29 GMT 12
An acre of seaweed absorbs way more carbon and produces way more oxygen than an acre of forests If you really believe we need to fix the O2 / CO2 thing then it’s no contest - switch focus to protecting more oceans than forests. Trouble is, deforestation is easier to see and apportion blame to. Whereas barren seabeds are harder to evidence. But overfishing is a big cause because it disrupts the predator hierarchy enabling more seaweed eating micro-organisms to flourish too much. You'd have to believe that climate change is man made to premise anything on that. Currently it looks like a handy excuse for the govt to impose some more taxes. But yes, there is massive logic in doing more for the oceans with regards CC. Can't see a downside to banning bottom trawling in any of that. Ban taking crays, as they predate on kina. Remove the Toanga status of kina, and allows wholesale smashing / taking of them. What else? Not just no crays or big snapper not eating KINA but pollution too. When living by the naval base as child,there was big kelp beds from Philomel gate to North head in the 60/70s,now fast forward to today and walk along the foreshore no kelp beds all but gone,not kina but caused by pollution and I imagine be the case along most of the northshore foreshore, Devonport wharf was covered in mussels/oysters but today barnicles only. |
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Post by Fogg on Sept 2, 2023 19:08:20 GMT 12
Ocean (chemical) pollution is way the bigger issue than over-fishing.
Remember, the ocean starts in your kitchen sink.
The number of chemicals used in various production techniques for food and other consumables is off the charts. It’s also totally unregulated.
We are only scratching the surface of understanding chemical pollution and the impact on the ocean ecosystem but they have found the most toxic chemicals at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (as well as plastics of course).
And many inhabitants of the deepest- sea can live for decades or even centuries. Which means they are not yet exposed or adapted to chemicals released into the oceans in recent years. The ticking time-bomb here is very real and far less understood than what we are facing back on land.
Remember the oceans process 70% of the atmosphere’s CO2 and turn it into O2. This is nothing to do with arguing about man-made climate change. This is simply about man-made chemical pollution killing the engine room of 70% of our oxygen. How do you think that’s going to go for us - regardless of whether we are getting hotter or colder?
And the other problem with chemicals is that they are mostly invisible and therefore much harder to trace and remove. At least the larger pieces of plastic are visible and more easily cleared away.
It’s chemicals people. Chemicals.
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Post by harrytom on Sept 2, 2023 19:26:00 GMT 12
Ocean (chemical) pollution is way the bigger issue than over-fishing. Remember, the ocean starts in your kitchen sink. The number of chemicals used in various production techniques for food and other consumables is off the charts. It’s also totally unregulated. We are only scratching the surface of understanding chemical pollution and the impact on the ocean ecosystem but they have found the most toxic chemicals at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (as well as plastics of course). And many inhabitants of the deepest- sea can live for decades or even centuries. Which means they are not yet exposed or adapted to chemicals released into the oceans in recent years. The ticking time-bomb here is very real and far less understood than what we are facing back on land. Remember the oceans process 70% of the atmosphere’s CO2 and turn it into O2. This is nothing to do with arguing about man-made climate change. This is simply about man-made chemical pollution killing the engine room of 70% of our oxygen. How do you think that’s going to go for us -regardless of whether we are getting hotter or colder. And the other problem with chemicals is that they are mostly invisible and therefore much harder to trace and remove. At least the larger pieces of plastic are visible and more easily cleared away. It’s chemicals people. Chemicals. Glad you touched on it,my thoughts too.What put in to waste drains goes to the ocean but many wont agree and blame everyone else,wash the car on grass and not the driveway. |
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Post by jim on Sept 2, 2023 20:17:00 GMT 12
I've got to say i cringe at the sight of our council contractors absolutely nuking the roadsides with weedkiller, sometimes right on a river bank but in anycase you know a lot of that is heading for the ocean. on the farm i managed to get 1 litre of roundup to last 15 years - hoping to eventually get to zero use of chemicals... a clear conscience is the softest pillow!
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Post by fish on Sept 2, 2023 21:14:02 GMT 12
Ocean (chemical) pollution is way the bigger issue than over-fishing. Remember, the ocean starts in your kitchen sink. The number of chemicals used in various production techniques for food and other consumables is off the charts. It’s also totally unregulated. We are only scratching the surface of understanding chemical pollution and the impact on the ocean ecosystem but they have found the most toxic chemicals at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (as well as plastics of course). And many inhabitants of the deepest- sea can live for decades or even centuries. Which means they are not yet exposed or adapted to chemicals released into the oceans in recent years. The ticking time-bomb here is very real and far less understood than what we are facing back on land. Remember the oceans process 70% of the atmosphere’s CO2 and turn it into O2. This is nothing to do with arguing about man-made climate change. This is simply about man-made chemical pollution killing the engine room of 70% of our oxygen. How do you think that’s going to go for us -regardless of whether we are getting hotter or colder. And the other problem with chemicals is that they are mostly invisible and therefore much harder to trace and remove. At least the larger pieces of plastic are visible and more easily cleared away. It’s chemicals people. Chemicals. Glad you touched on it,my thoughts too.What put in to waste drains goes to the ocean but many wont agree and blame everyone else,wash the car on grass and not the driveway. Why wash the car at all? If you own a car worth washing, you are the problem. It's just consumption. |
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