otto
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by otto on Apr 12, 2023 7:24:52 GMT 12
The AYBA will be having a meeting soon i believe as to how far it is to pursue these cases and how many it will fight as this is totally dependent on funds. Here's an update and more can be read here www.ayba.org.nz/blog/post/103082/april-2023-update/"Prior to the Super City there were 8 Councils in the Auckland Region and over-seeing our coastline and regional parks was the Auckland Regional Council. Today there are 21 Local Boards making local decisions for their area and there is no co-ordinated Regional Plan for the protection of our coastal and marine environment. In the Auckland Council’s own words: “Space in Coastal Locations are increasingly attractive to alternative development!” Such a policy threatens many of the Club and other facilities currently on “Desirable Coastal Land”! Auckland’s Unitary Plan endorses “Intensification” – another threat. This is why the AYBA and the Auckland Marina Users Assn. Inc. are demanding a Regional Plan – Not just of the haul-out facilities but of all our Coastal resources for the ongoing and future access to our greatest recreational facility – the Harbour & Gulf – and for the future well-being of our marine environment and the well-being of a great part of our population who finds sanctuary by and on the sea." |
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Post by harrytom on Apr 12, 2023 9:24:41 GMT 12
What sanctions will ynz put on the rayc for supporting closure?
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Post by fish on Apr 12, 2023 13:02:34 GMT 12
What sanctions will ynz put on the rayc for supporting closure? Mwahahaahahahahahaha Wont. Ever. Happen. Besides, isn't that what we call cancel culture? |
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Post by harrytom on Apr 12, 2023 13:12:39 GMT 12
The AYBA will be having a meeting soon i believe as to how far it is to pursue these cases and how many it will fight as this is totally dependent on funds. Here's an update and more can be read here www.ayba.org.nz/blog/post/103082/april-2023-update/"Prior to the Super City there were 8 Councils in the Auckland Region and over-seeing our coastline and regional parks was the Auckland Regional Council. Today there are 21 Local Boards making local decisions for their area and there is no co-ordinated Regional Plan for the protection of our coastal and marine environment. In the Auckland Council’s own words: “Space in Coastal Locations are increasingly attractive to alternative development!” Such a policy threatens many of the Club and other facilities currently on “Desirable Coastal Land”! Auckland’s Unitary Plan endorses “Intensification” – another threat. This is why the AYBA and the Auckland Marina Users Assn. Inc. are demanding a Regional Plan – Not just of the haul-out facilities but of all our Coastal resources for the ongoing and future access to our greatest recreational facility – the Harbour & Gulf – and for the future well-being of our marine environment and the well-being of a great part of our population who finds sanctuary by and on the sea." About 7 or 8yrs ago,Legasea held a fishing symposium. One of the guest speakers was Everlyn pinkerton from BC Canada. She pointed out that all regional councils are responsible for the seabed/fauna/shellfish/fish(in conjunction with mpi)out to the 10 mile limit. But to take on council would be costly.Who has a lazy 2 or 3 mil?? The Landing,not are you only taking on AK council but local Marae who want a cleaner Okahu Bay. Councils arguement will be ,we need to put costly containment tanks in. Hike fees up. $200 up/down $200 per day and say no DIY must use approved applicators for removing anti foul or painting. Sounds negative,but reality. Taking on council is like protesting a race committee.soon close ranks. unitaryplan.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/HTMLSept/Part 2/Chapter D/Chapter D - 5 Coastal zones.htm 5.1 General Coastal Marine zone Zone description The General Coastal Marine zone (GCM zone) comprises the majority of the coast, and includes the CMA that lies outside of the Marina, Mooring, Minor port, Ferry terminal, Defence or City Centre zones, and is not in a precinct. The objectives, policies and rules of the GCM zone apply to all zones and precincts unless otherwise provided for in the zone or precinct. If an overlay applies to the area where an activity is proposed, the provisions of the overlay will also apply, including any overlay rule that applies to the activity. The purpose of the GCM zone is to provide for use and development that has a functional need to be undertaken in the CMA, and to manage conflicts between activities, while: •Enabling appropriate use and development of the CMAs natural and physical resources to provide for our social and economic well-being. •Protecting natural character and landscape values and natural features. •Maintaining water quality and the life-supporting capacity of the marine environment. •Protecting significant ecological values. •Protecting historic heritage values. •Providing for Mana Whenua values in accordance with tikanga Māori. •Maintaining and enhancing public access, open space, recreational use and amenity values. •Avoiding and protecting development from coastal hazard risks.(This will be the stumbling block and Council will push it.Saying this why we want it closed.) |
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Post by fish on Apr 12, 2023 13:13:11 GMT 12
The AYBA will be having a meeting soon i believe as to how far it is to pursue these cases and how many it will fight as this is totally dependent on funds. Here's an update and more can be read here www.ayba.org.nz/blog/post/103082/april-2023-update/"Prior to the Super City there were 8 Councils in the Auckland Region and over-seeing our coastline and regional parks was the Auckland Regional Council. Today there are 21 Local Boards making local decisions for their area and there is no co-ordinated Regional Plan for the protection of our coastal and marine environment. In the Auckland Council’s own words: “Space in Coastal Locations are increasingly attractive to alternative development!” Such a policy threatens many of the Club and other facilities currently on “Desirable Coastal Land”! Auckland’s Unitary Plan endorses “Intensification” – another threat. This is why the AYBA and the Auckland Marina Users Assn. Inc. are demanding a Regional Plan – Not just of the haul-out facilities but of all our Coastal resources for the ongoing and future access to our greatest recreational facility – the Harbour & Gulf – and for the future well-being of our marine environment and the well-being of a great part of our population who finds sanctuary by and on the sea." Hi Otto, Does the Unitary Plan not contain the same elements as a Regional Plan for the coastal and marine environment? Whether it achieves that, or is particularly well written is another question. Certainly there are such elements as mooring areas and controls on where to clean hulls in water, etc, etc These are fascinating points you are making about the 7 Councils going to 21 Local Boards and the lack of a Regional Council now. On the risk of the carpet weed out at Barrier getting established in the Waitemata, I note there is a ferry that direct from Tryphena to the inner Waitemata Harbour on a regular basis. What is the legal test? Irrational & Illogical? |
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Post by fish on Apr 12, 2023 13:21:11 GMT 12
The AYBA will be having a meeting soon i believe as to how far it is to pursue these cases and how many it will fight as this is totally dependent on funds. About 7 or 8yrs ago,Legasea held a fishing symposium. One of the guest speakers was Everlyn pinkerton from BC Canada. She pointed out that all regional councils are responsible for the seabed/fauna/shellfish/fish(in conjunction with mpi)out to the 10 mile limit. But to take on council would be costly.Who has a lazy 2 or 3 mil?? The Landing,not are you only taking on AK council but local Marae who want a cleaner Okahu Bay. Councils arguement will be ,we need to put costly containment tanks in. Hike fees up. $200 up/down $200 per day and say no DIY must use approved applicators for removing anti foul or painting. Sounds negative,but reality. Taking on council is like protesting a race committee.soon close ranks. HT, If I am correct, the Landing already has the full filtration / containment system (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Closing the hardstand is nothing about compliance with existing rules. That is why it is so illogical. And as for Iwi wanting to clean up Okahu Bay, with regard to the Hardstand, that is a very backward statement. There is a strong and compelling argument about marine biosecurity and the need for hardstands. In this respect, keeping the hardstand open will clearly help in cleaning the marine environment. |
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Post by harrytom on Apr 12, 2023 13:34:19 GMT 12
About 7 or 8yrs ago,Legasea held a fishing symposium. One of the guest speakers was Everlyn pinkerton from BC Canada. She pointed out that all regional councils are responsible for the seabed/fauna/shellfish/fish(in conjunction with mpi)out to the 10 mile limit. But to take on council would be costly.Who has a lazy 2 or 3 mil?? The Landing,not are you only taking on AK council but local Marae who want a cleaner Okahu Bay. Councils arguement will be ,we need to put costly containment tanks in. Hike fees up. $200 up/down $200 per day and say no DIY must use approved applicators for removing anti foul or painting. Sounds negative,but reality. Taking on council is like protesting a race committee.soon close ranks. HT, If I am correct, the Landing already has the full filtration / containment system (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Closing the hardstand is nothing about compliance with existing rules. That is why it is so illogical. And as for Iwi wanting to clean up Okahu Bay, with regard to the Hardstand, that is a very backward statement. There is a strong and compelling argument about marine biosecurity and the need for hardstands. In this respect, keeping the hardstand open will clearly help in cleaning the marine environment. All council has to do is make it unaffordable and say.Yes we provide a area but boaties have declined to use it. akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/the-landingThe site is of particular cultural significance to Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei, with Ōkahu Bay being a place where historic waka arrivals have taken place over many hundreds of years and where today participation in waka ama and other water-based activities is growing. |
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Post by fish on Apr 12, 2023 13:45:36 GMT 12
The Council's reply to the AYBA's submission to the Planning & Environment Committee demostrates the illogic of their position.
Point 1 - There is capacity at existing hardstands if work is carried out in winter. This ignores the requirement of a clean within less than 1 month to travel North, or AF within 6 months. The answer in itself confirms there is a capacity problem. Moreso, with Council divers and inspectors requiring urgent remediation of fouled boats, this Council position confirms those boats only have capacity to be cleaned in winter.
It also demonstrates, in the Council's own words, that if an outbreak of carpet weed, or any other marine pest is to occur, there is no capacity to deal with it. Kind of self evidence own goal, I would have thought.
The Council’s reply:
Capacity is sufficient if the sector shifts their maintenance and antifouling to the winter months!
There are 20 hardstands in the Auckland Region operated by commercial yards and clubs!
The leases held by commercial hardstands are managed by Eke Panuku as non-service property and Club-based hardstands on Council land are subject to a community lease. (So was Little Shoal Bay and similarly the Landing – Is there any guarantee these areas “Desirable Coastal Land” will survive?)
The council stated it is not their responsibility to provide haul-out facilities.
The Landing is the decision of the Local Community Board and will not be over-ridden by Council!
And so the AYBA has lodged an injunction with the High court seeking to repeal the Local Boards decision!
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Post by fish on Apr 12, 2023 13:50:52 GMT 12
HT, If I am correct, the Landing already has the full filtration / containment system (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Closing the hardstand is nothing about compliance with existing rules. That is why it is so illogical. And as for Iwi wanting to clean up Okahu Bay, with regard to the Hardstand, that is a very backward statement. There is a strong and compelling argument about marine biosecurity and the need for hardstands. In this respect, keeping the hardstand open will clearly help in cleaning the marine environment. All council has to do is make it unaffordable and say.Yes we provide a area but boaties have declined to use it. akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/the-landingThe site is of particular cultural significance to Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei, with Ōkahu Bay being a place where historic waka arrivals have taken place over many hundreds of years and where today participation in waka ama and other water-based activities is growing. So what are you saying? Just give up? Bend over, hand onto your ankles and get rogered? Fairly fatalistic approach. Everything is sacred to Ngati Orakei, esp if there is enough money associated with it. I don't see a hard stand being incompatible with that, any less than a carpark is. For iwi, the opposite is probably true. It is only a matter of time before one of the many invasive marine pests gets established in the inner Harbour. Controlling that will require ample boat cleaning facilities. It is logical that that be allowed for in Council Regional Plans, regards coastal land use. The real alternative, is the complete ban on boating during an invasive pest outbreak. Like a lock down for boaties, fishoes, kayakers, waka-ama etc... |
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Post by muzled on Apr 12, 2023 14:10:56 GMT 12
The site is of particular cultural significance to Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei, with Ōkahu Bay being a place where historic waka arrivals have taken place over many hundreds of years and where today participation in waka ama and other water-based activities is growing. What a total non argument that statement is. Every single bay that isn't enclosed by cliffs is a historic place where waka arrivals have taken place over many hundreds of years no? Getting from sea to land hasn't changed over the centuries no matter you're Maori, Viking, Shackleton or any other person or culture, you need a passable shoreline like, er, Okahu bay... Clearly Mission bay, Kohi and St Helliers are all historica sites, the toilets there should be pulled down and removed to stop people defecating on said historical sites. |
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otto
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by otto on Apr 13, 2023 15:27:39 GMT 12
HT, If I am correct, the Landing already has the full filtration / containment system (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Closing the hardstand is nothing about compliance with existing rules. That is why it is so illogical. And as for Iwi wanting to clean up Okahu Bay, with regard to the Hardstand, that is a very backward statement. There is a strong and compelling argument about marine biosecurity and the need for hardstands. In this respect, keeping the hardstand open will clearly help in cleaning the marine environment. I'm really beginning to wonder if you have any interest in boating these days and would just prefer to let access to the water go. Yes, they could have hiked the rates and these should have been increased to cover costs but they didn't. Unlike other marinas where prices are being hiked and business's have moved out. Why, so they can build houses and access to the water is gone. Yacht clubs, prime waterfront land??? Watch this space, already discussions with one club. While you are happy to sit back some of us believe access to the gulf should remain, not only for us but our grandchildren. This being a 14ft tinny, a yacht, waka or launch. |
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 16:35:36 GMT 12
All council has to do is make it unaffordable and say.Yes we provide a area but boaties have declined to use it. I'm really beginning to wonder if you have any interest in boating these days and would just prefer to let access to the water go. Yes, they could have hiked the rates and these should have been increased to cover costs but they didn't. Unlike other marinas where prices are being hiked and business's have moved out. Why, so they can build houses and access to the water is gone. Yacht clubs, prime waterfront land??? Watch this space, already discussions with one club. While you are happy to sit back some of us believe access to the gulf should remain, not only for us but our grandchildren. This being a 14ft tinny, a yacht, waka or launch. Otto, If I'm correct, harrytom let his boat sink, and now doesn't own a boat, so has zero interest in any of these important issues. Especially something like maintaining a boat, which may have been beyond him in the first place. I wouldn't pay him any attention. He's just sitting on the sidelines wringing his hands. You are doing a fantastic and very important job. |
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Post by harrytom on Apr 13, 2023 17:54:14 GMT 12
Fish. I didnt let my boat sink!! It broke its mooring when it hit by another loose boat,and ended up under St Stephens college.It didnt sink.
Yes ,true I do not have a moored vessel but a trailered boat.
It is not only council against boating but seems we as sailors arent helping ourselves either.
Look back to the 70s/80s of the RNZYS fleets,100/150 yachts,from 1st div "A" class down to Pideys and Saturday afternoon "m" class with fleets of 10+ and stored at the ramp. Where are those ig fleets now??
RAYC winter regatta same 150 different size vessels,no longer,PCC Sunday winter racing from big yachts to trailer sailors.PCC mullet boats 10+, Richmond mid week racing was big.
Where are those fleets??
Have a look at Westhaven,xmas the place use to be empty but now?only about 1/3 used. Its a status symbol/
Why are there so many derelict vessels on moorings? Most hardstands DIY is limited activities,its become very enviromental and health n safety playing its part.
Have a look at trademe,moored vessels yachts/launches can sit for 2 yrs + before being sold. The trailer market turns over rather quickly. Either people are cash or time restrained or like me cannot afford the ongoing compliance costs,Cannot even put yoyr own gas stove installation in without a permit..
Not knocking "Otto" but wake up and see where this AK council is heading,want Libraries to be run by volunteers,get rid of CABs due to high rents.
The limelight of boating in Auckland is over.
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Post by fish on Apr 13, 2023 18:50:00 GMT 12
Fish. I didnt let my boat sink!! It broke its mooring when it hit by another loose boat,and ended up under St Stephens college.It didnt sink. Yes ,true I do not have a moored vessel but a trailered boat. It is not only council against boating but seems we as sailors arent helping ourselves either. Look back to the 70s/80s of the RNZYS fleets,100/150 yachts,from 1st div "A" class down to Pideys and Saturday afternoon "m" class with fleets of 10+ and stored at the ramp. Where are those ig fleets now?? RAYC winter regatta same 150 different size vessels,no longer,PCC Sunday winter racing from big yachts to trailer sailors.PCC mullet boats 10+, Richmond mid week racing was big. Where are those fleets?? Have a look at Westhaven,xmas the place use to be empty but now?only about 1/3 used. Its a status symbol/ Why are there so many derelict vessels on moorings? Most hardstands DIY is limited activities,its become very enviromental and health n safety playing its part. Have a look at trademe,moored vessels yachts/launches can sit for 2 yrs + before being sold. The trailer market turns over rather quickly. Either people are cash or time restrained or like me cannot afford the ongoing compliance costs,Cannot even put yoyr own gas stove installation in without a permit.. Not knocking "Otto" but wake up and see where this AK council is heading,want Libraries to be run by volunteers,get rid of CABs due to high rents. The limelight of boating in Auckland is over. Crikey, You could get a job as a Labour Govt Minister with a post like that. Your boat isn't floating, but you claim it didn't sink. Good-oh. Then you say that the compliance and maintenance costs are too high for boating, therefore we should not fight to reduce the compliance and maintenance costs. You're not knocking Otto, but think what he is doing is a waste of time. Do you ever sit back and think about what you are saying? PS, what is a CABs? PPS, you clearly don't understand the function of Council and what a Coastal Plan would entail. Nothing to do with running Libraries with volunteers. Council wouldn't need to pay anything. They just do a plan that says that x, w and z locations are zoned for boat maintenance, and therefore cannot be sold to developers for apartments. Much the same as our Regional Parks, community halls, sports fields and other community assets and amenities. More so, in the context of biosecurity, where the Council have a legal obligation to manage invasive species. They currently pay for divers to go and inspect rocks and things to see if they have fanworm all over them. As part of this, they send a million dollars worth of people and gear to check your old boat has or hasn't got fan worm. What the good people at the AYBA are doing is getting the High Court to say its is irrational to send a million dollars worth of people and gear to check your old boat, if there is no-where you can clean your boat. All the Council has to do is pass a rule that certain coastal land be zoned for boat maintenance. The logical bit would be the land already used for boat maintenance, like the Landing, Bayswater Haulout and Little Shoal Bay. In the case of Little Shoal Bay, if hte environmental containment is not up to scratch, then the users will need to chip together and pay for a system. This is in effect what every club is and does across Auckland. And I'm not talking about the RNZYS. That is not a club. And I'm not talking about Westhaven. Boating extends far, far, far beyond that one overrated location. In effect, AYBA are simply asking Auckland Council to do their job. Auckland Council's job is to manage invasive pests. It is a sure thing that there will be an outbreak in the inner harbour in the next 10 or so years. Council need to plan for that now, part of which is ensuring capacity exists for boat cleaning. They don't need to provide it, they just need to ensure it exists. Boat cleaning requires a certain type of land at the water's edge. Council control land use via various plans. A good example of this is Council's responsibilities as the Civil Defense Authority. Having known since 2016 they weren't organised for a major event, they got their arses kicked in the Anniversay Day flooding. Big inquiry (that was incidentally late and over budget). Didn't test any of their plans. Didn't even have contact numbers for Life-Line utilities. The Mayor wasn't on the Civil Defense Emergency email list. AYBA are simply saying to Council you need to sort your shit out now on marine biosecurity. Stop fucking around with the woke shit, Dwalli festivals, Matariki, Gay Pride Parades etc and just do your job. (note, I added that bit, not AYBA, but you get the picture). PPPS, my main point about your sunk boat is correct, you have no skin in the game, so you don't have a mandate to really say anything about the issue. PPPPS, maybe you should have gone to Chains Ropes and Anchors for better mooring lines, kind of like pre-emptive maintenance sort of thing? |
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Post by harrytom on Apr 13, 2023 19:02:15 GMT 12
Fish you know it all Dont you. The yacht didnt sink,was towed off and sat floating overnight the wharf till haulout,twisted keel and gelcoat damage and insurance wrote it off. As far as a mooring goes when just inspected and a 35ft hartly type tri collect the bow between it floats what do you think going to happen in cyclone conditions like we have just experienced. No skin in the game really. Doesnt crewing count?? or supporting other marine industries,paying a fee to use a ramp 24/7 Have look at the give a bit pages ,kind of says it all for support.Fuck all. givealittle.co.nz/cause/supportthelandinghardstand?fbclid=IwAR1aklIkv9qIG3SxbdIePpNrJPWyhIYhd5sg1R3GnC3GQVZxjqmRqO8h-e4$9k in 12 weeks "Fish" you are know it all and "Jim" thanks for inviting me back but "The punisher" is correct.This site will never take off with Fish and Duckmaster. |
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