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Post by fish on Oct 17, 2022 9:46:43 GMT 12
I've got a feeling this whole fart tax thing might be one of those political tactics. I've forgotten the proper name for it, but you scare the shit out of everyone with a ridiculous proposal, and then walk it back to what you wanted in the first place. All of the opposition to your intended proposal blow all their energy on the bat-shit-crazy proposal and end up accepting something that is better than the crazy proposal but is still far worse than what they wanted in the first place. Govt says, 'hay, look, we listened to you, did what you want', where in reality they just took a ridiculous position and you have no energy left to bring them back to what you wanted in the first place. Everyone gives up and plants pine tress. People leave the rural areas and work in factories, and govt 'thinks' they solved a problem. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 17, 2022 10:30:29 GMT 12
I've got a feeling this whole fart tax thing might be one of those political tactics. I've forgotten the proper name for it, but you scare the shit out of everyone with a ridiculous proposal, and then walk it back to what you wanted in the first place. All of the opposition to your intended proposal blow all their energy on the bat-shit-crazy proposal and end up accepting something that is better than the crazy proposal but is still far worse than what they wanted in the first place. Govt says, 'hay, look, we listened to you, did what you want', where in reality they just took a ridiculous position and you have no energy left to bring them back to what you wanted in the first place. Everyone gives up and plants pine tress. People leave the rural areas and work in factories, and govt 'thinks' they solved a problem. Also a distraction while they try to slip 3 Waters through! |
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Post by sabre on Oct 17, 2022 11:32:42 GMT 12
I've got a feeling this whole fart tax thing might be one of those political tactics. I've forgotten the proper name for it, but you scare the shit out of everyone with a ridiculous proposal, and then walk it back to what you wanted in the first place. All of the opposition to your intended proposal blow all their energy on the bat-shit-crazy proposal and end up accepting something that is better than the crazy proposal but is still far worse than what they wanted in the first place. Govt says, 'hay, look, we listened to you, did what you want', where in reality they just took a ridiculous position and you have no energy left to bring them back to what you wanted in the first place. Everyone gives up and plants pine tress. People leave the rural areas and work in factories, and govt 'thinks' they solved a problem. Absolutely. 2 steps forward one back means they are still moving towards the UN agenda. I can see their political wingman, National, coming in and dialing it back a bit. |
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Post by GO30 on Oct 17, 2022 11:47:47 GMT 12
Hmmmmmm.... No1
I'm looking at some good looking 'steaks on the hoof' (Welford stock sales not bovineporn.com.au) that be have taken the farmer 3 years odd years of care to grow. Vets bills, medical, regulatory, possibly food brought in, hay to be made stored and all the rest of the costs including transport to the sales.
450-480kg beast are selling for 1400-1500 notes each. That's $3 plus some change per kg.
A quick google is saying RRP for rump at the moment is $16 to $28 a kg in the supermarkets.
Oh 13 tidy 318kg average weight steers just went for 1160 each, that's the highest price so far. And the next lot, 4 302kg blondes just went for 885 each, that's less than $3 a kg.
The money is in growing milk not growing meat. The fart tax will lead to huge stress and what comes with that like an increase in family violence and increase to an already shockingly bad suicide rate on farms.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 11:52:43 GMT 12
I've got a feeling this whole fart tax thing might be one of those political tactics. I've forgotten the proper name for it, but you scare the shit out of everyone with a ridiculous proposal, and then walk it back to what you wanted in the first place. All of the opposition to your intended proposal blow all their energy on the bat-shit-crazy proposal and end up accepting something that is better than the crazy proposal but is still far worse than what they wanted in the first place. Govt says, 'hay, look, we listened to you, did what you want', where in reality they just took a ridiculous position and you have no energy left to bring them back to what you wanted in the first place. Everyone gives up and plants pine tress. People leave the rural areas and work in factories, and govt 'thinks' they solved a problem. exactly. You nailed it |
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Post by fish on Oct 17, 2022 11:55:25 GMT 12
I didn't realise amongst all of this, they wont credit farmers for anything good they are doing for the environment, all the other types of plantings etc.
I wondered about your comments GO30 about not cleaning out the dam and doing the planting there, then read what I could of Smalley's commentary. So farmers can't offset their emmissions and have to pay tax? I thought the whole idea of these ETS schemes was to offset your emissions?
I have a head-ache. And I'm not even in the agriculture / killing cows and cutting them up sector anymore.
Does anyone have a link to Smalleys NBR article un-paywalled?
PS GO30, are you talking live weights? You need a good fat beast to get a descent yield once you take the wrapper off, get rid of the tripe, and the frame. If I remember correctly it is somewhere around 24% to 28% for boneless meat. Much less for skinny old dairy cows.
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 17, 2022 12:18:01 GMT 12
I didn't realise amongst all of this, they wont credit farmers for anything good they are doing for the environment, all the other types of plantings etc. I wondered about your comments GO30 about not cleaning out the dam and doing the planting there, then read what I could of Smalley's commentary. So farmers can't offset their emmissions and have to pay tax? I thought the whole idea of these ETS schemes was to offset your emissions? I have a head-ache. And I'm not even in the agriculture / killing cows and cutting them up sector anymore. Does anyone have a link to Smalleys NBR article un-paywalled? PS GO30, are you talking live weights? You need a good fat beast to get a descent yield once you take the wrapper off, get rid of the tripe, and the frame. If I remember correctly it is somewhere around 24% to 28% for boneless meat. Much less for skinny old dairy cows. This is just about destroying farming, by excluding grass from the sequestration calcs, www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC2202/S00015/ets-carbon-sequestration.htmquote: The carbon sequestration from pastoral farming is currently ignored and surely this must mean that the basis for analysis of the GHG emissions from farming is based on flawed science and therefore gives an incorrect measure of the actual emissions from farming.
This then means that farming is unfairly penalised under the ETS proposals from the omission of farming’s carbon sequestration ability, particularly given that the predictions are that we will see significant increase in global warming in the near future and the effects (from drought and wildfires) that this may have in relation to forestry. |
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Post by GO30 on Oct 17, 2022 12:21:53 GMT 12
I found a NZ Government calculator of our farms emissions and sequestrations. It appears to be the same calc used by Waka en nokey docky or what ever it's name is that is mentioned a lot lately around farm emissions. I entered all the guff, honestly, and it reckons while we emit 33.9t of methane due to cows burping, 0.5t of methane due to cows wee doing something on the soil and 5.9t of nitrous oxide again due to cow wee interacting with dirt, we are also sequestering 166t of CO2. So bitchs start sending me your money..................... but in the same breath I think we are still gonna be screwed over. Hmmmm................ No2 As I do I was pondering the above numbers and it crossed my mind '34t of methane seems a lot for only 22 beasts' I excluded the fact mine are all youngish and very young by assuming they calculator is working on fully grow dairy beasts.
So 33.9 / 22 = 1.54t 1540kg / 365 day in a year = 4.22kg per animal per day.
I can find many assorted places inc Govts that reckon a bovine produces numbers like '500kg on high concentrate diet = 320gr a day (Irish Govt)' and 'An average beef cattle produces 61kg of methane a year (a NZ reference)'. Note beef cattle not dairy which produce more for some reason I have yet to suss.
Anyway 320gr a day or 61kg (170 gr/day) a year is a some what at odds with the Govts suggested 1540kg per year being 4.22kg per day.
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Post by GO30 on Oct 17, 2022 12:29:53 GMT 12
I didn't realise amongst all of this, they wont credit farmers for anything good they are doing for the environment, all the other types of plantings etc. I wondered about your comments GO30 about not cleaning out the dam and doing the planting there, then read what I could of Smalley's commentary. So farmers can't offset their emmissions and have to pay tax? I thought the whole idea of these ETS schemes was to offset your emissions? I have a head-ache. And I'm not even in the agriculture / killing cows and cutting them up sector anymore. Does anyone have a link to Smalleys NBR article un-paywalled? PS GO30, are you talking live weights? You need a good fat beast to get a descent yield once you take the wrapper off, get rid of the tripe, and the frame. If I remember correctly it is somewhere around 24% to 28% for boneless meat. Much less for skinny old dairy cows. Thats what the Grrrr...... is about. We'll tax your farts but will ignore the good things you do and the fact farms are covered in things that eat CO2. Look at what the Govt says my is doing and I'll get pinged for the 34t of bad they will ignore the 166t of good.
Yeap live weights. 42 lots in and the prices have crept up a little, now around 3.50-3.70kg. Most are good looking beasts, a few from the bush that will condition up very nicely.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 12:53:10 GMT 12
The solution is easy.
If enough of you farming polluters don't pay what you owe until they credit what they owe, the IRD will have a brain bleed and boom đź’Ą Jahitler and Offshore are pinned into a "Fuck it" corner.
Time for NZ to take the french approach!
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 17, 2022 19:28:59 GMT 12
if you are wondering why this subject has appeared now, the answer is in here www.act.org.nz/press-releases/free-press-17-october-2022quote: Humans have spent centuries making bizarre sacrifices, offering up goats and chickens to the Gods. However Jacinda Ardern and James Shaw have taken it to the next level, offering up a large chunk of their country’s entire agricultural sector to the climate Gods. It appears to be a ceremonial sacrifice for the upcoming COP 27 meeting in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt.Like most religious sacrifices, Ardern and Shaw’s agricultural climate policy is not rational. The Gods in next month’s COP 27 aren’t real, and pleasing them with sacrifices won’t actually deliver their followers from any evil. In fact, the sacrifice will distract from real progress and leave everyone worse off.So it is just a repeat of what was done to the Oil & Gas industry a few years ago, Stalinda wanting to big note herself |
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Post by fish on Oct 17, 2022 19:56:55 GMT 12
So who's going to protest on Thursday? Locations and times on the below link. The Wellsford convoy is rolling through Silverdale at 10:15 which is close to me. I'm just trying to work out how to dress up my little Honda hybrid car so I don't get eaten by all the practical farming utes and big tractors... Currently plotting how I can mount signage on my windsurfer roofracks. Wouldn't want the rural types to mistake me for a greeny city slicker in my economical hybrid. Alternative vehicles for me would be the PHEV, taking an EV to an anti-climate change tax protest might not work. Think my best option might be to get the old man to come along with his 6 ton truck. At least it looks like a practical working vehicle. www.groundswellnz.co.nz/protest-locations |
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Post by eri on Oct 18, 2022 8:04:31 GMT 12
The cheapest Beef seems up round $20kg in pack and save now.....more expensive than a leg of lamb
When the greens say European shoppers will pay $45kg for NZ 'green' beef, that means we'll be charged that too
And if that means we can't afford it and have to become vegetarians or bug protein eaters
That's an extra bonus for them
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 8:33:42 GMT 12
The cheapest Beef seems up round $20kg in pack and save now.....more expensive than a leg of lamb When the greens say European shoppers will pay $45kg for NZ 'green' beef, that means we'll be charged that too And if that means we can't afford it and have to become vegetarians r bug protein eaters That's an extra bonus for them Europeans won't be buying NZ beef when the recession kicks in over winter .. they will be buying food that needs little otr no electricity or gas to cook! |
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Post by Cantab on Oct 18, 2022 8:55:18 GMT 12
Jacinda thinks buyers will pay a premium for the green beef.
Pretty sure most people will buy the cheapest stuff.
NZ importing beef from overseas to supply the locals, hard to believe, more likely soon though.
The last leg she has to stand on for any hope in elections is the climate change story, true to form, she will fuck that up too.
I'm starting to question if her job at the UN is still viable, even they can see the disaster she creates everywhere she points her policy stick. The prevailing wind at the UN is changing, the realities of Wokism are revealing themselves. I'm hoping they will use her and Trudeau as the fall guys and burn them.
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