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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Dec 31, 2022 14:48:03 GMT 12
Tuke is about 1/64th Maori...
Shame in him disowning his true heritage for a publicty promotion for Maori!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 15:00:06 GMT 12
Duckmaster. With the amount of crap you write starting to think youve been drinking Grandmas sherry. I couldnt write half the stuff you come up with after a bottle of MT GAY.
You do know where the first canoe thing arrived dont you??
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Dec 31, 2022 15:00:17 GMT 12
If they were great sailors/navigators. Why do they not sail or crew or become navigators on ships etc. Because they got in a current with a trade wind and drifted here.Not just one raft left Polynesia but several at once.There is no way they could of drifted back to tell the others which may explain some of their personality, inbreed. nobody drifts to NZ from the doldrums. The ITCZ very rarely push you south from south of the equater. It will push you east to aussie most of the year... Something Fuckblaster and his advisors take into account...
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Dec 31, 2022 15:05:14 GMT 12
Duckmaster. With the amount of crap you wrate starting to think youve been drinking Grandmas sherry. I couldnt write half the stuff you come up with after a bottle of MT GAY. You do know where the first canoe thing arrived dont you?? he doesn't write it he googles a statement to suit his argument, out of context then cut and pastes it. Which is why he contradicts himself and is so discombobulated
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 15:05:47 GMT 12
If they were great sailors/navigators. Why do they not sail or crew or become navigators on ships etc. Because they got in a current with a trade wind and drifted here.Not just one raft left Polynesia but several at once.There is no way they could of drifted back to tell the others which may explain some of their personality, inbreed. nobody drifts to NZ from the doldrums. The ITCZ very rarely push you south from south of the equater. It will push you east to aussie most of the year... Something Fuckblaster and his advisors take into account... exactly should of hit aussie first or gone around in fucken big circles as they sure didnt sail,it floated yes but relied currents. Unlike the guys who did the kontiki voyage from peru to polynesia.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 31, 2022 15:36:52 GMT 12
Cook recorded in his diaries "Great SAILING canoes" I think harrytom, he was immensely more qualified than you to identify the difference between a raft and a sail boat. How do think they progressively populated the Pacific equatorial Islands as far East as Easter Island if they weren't "sailing"?
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Dec 31, 2022 20:13:15 GMT 12
I think any sailor today, including Harrytom, would be more qualified to pick type of craft than James cook ... just thru evolution and more information/ intellegence.
Your such a condescending ass pluck faster!
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Post by GO30 on Jan 2, 2023 9:49:18 GMT 12
Oh good golly and I'm gonna have to join with Ducky and also expressed a WOW!! at some of the things suggested and possibly believed. While Ducky has lots right he/she/it/they/Trev there are wobbly bits. Indigenous as used by Ducky is the re-imaged woke version in which it's suggested it means native to. The land known as NZ has no native peoples but it does have indigenous or what in Maori is . Both mean exactly the same thing 'a product of the land/environment'. There is no doubt Maori are indigenous as they are a creation of their environment which NZ as it's evolved. Note it's well accepted the people who evolved into Maori have been on NZ soil for around 7-800 years. Obviously those who landed here 7-800 years ago weren't and couldn't have been Maori as if they were that fucks the whole story. Maori evolved from those who landed here first and it took a few 100 years before they became 'Maori' as such, so Maori as a people are only 4-500 years old.
Now the niggle comes in as many will decry the above as blaa blaa blaa and undoubtedly Maori will throw their toys at the timeline as well. The thing is there are a shit load of non-maori who have been on NZ soil for 100's of years. The Uni Professor who explained all of this suggested it takes a 4 or so generations to change from the thinking of your forefathers to being a product of your environment i.e. tangata whenua/indigenous. Hence the time lag between the fist arrivals and the birth of Maori. The niggle now is there are millions living on NZ soil who are 4th or more generation yet not Maori, myself being one of them, so they are also indigenous NZers. Hence the continual use of 'European' as a method of marginalising and pretending non-Maori can't be indigenous NZers, like me for one example. I am not European, never have been and simply can't be so I am not a European NZer. Fogg for example is a European NZer, not born here but choose to come and is currently being re-educated to remove his desire for fish and pork products packed in jelly to instil a greater desire for Jelly tips and Pavlova. So I'd think Fogg is lucky he can correctly identify himself when ask ethnicity unlike me, at best I can be 'another Pacific Peoples' on 99% of forms as there is no option to be just a NZer or non-maori indigenous.
Hence the use of 'European' and the likes to suggest Maori are Native or the only indigenous peoples on NZ when in fact they are descendants of immigrants just like every one else. That's also why the terms Native and indigenous are being used as the same thing in places.
As to how people got to NZ is pretty simple, luck pure 100% luck. When the Maritime Museum opened I helped them get up and running by driving some of their boats for them. They have great speakers and so on and a couple of dudes rocked up to have a chat about colonising (note the word they used) the pacific. They had been researching it for donkeys years and to date I have not seen the slightest thing that contradicts them bar Maoris claim they came from a mythical place there is zero factual support for in any form bar handed down hearsay, which is hardly scientific or anything close.
Basically many years ago people in asia, around the area now known as Taiwan was a common jumping off spot, a bunch of people would load, say 6 weeks of supplies onto a vessel. It's very unlikely the vessels were anything like Waka as we know them, the boats would have been more chinese like as they had been at it for centuries already. The vessel would sail into the wind for 3 weeks, if they found nothing they knew they could do a 180 and run downhill home fine with the supplies available. If they found land they would stop and some would settle there while they boat went back with the news. When ready again they would load up and repeat the voyage. They carbon dating of settlements and fire pits shows a very clear progression east across the pacific ending up in what is now Hawaii there abouts.
But NZ is not on that route and in a colder climate than they were used to. They reckon there is zero evidence boats went south to any significant degree as it got colder and they weren't really geared up for cold. The research strongly suggest a vessel got blown off track maybe lost a rig at a key spot and it eventually washed up on what is now known as NZ. There is a lot to support that claim both from back them and as Ducky noted even in todays world, look at the Rose Noelle as an example, it was drifting for months and the crew lived. Sure more by good luck than good management but who cares as it eventually washed ashore and lives were resumed.
As for sailing to windward. There is a Kiribati Proa in the Museum that will even today out perform 99% of yachts in speed and agility. When I lived in Kiribati I was invited to sail in the Independence day regatta where they race proas arccos the lagoon and back. The big fast proas are owned by the 1%er and sailed by paid crews very much like horse racing. I got invited by the Bishop who had 3 or 4 boats in his stable. Not many years prior to going to Kiribati I sailed 18's and we were the fastest yacht in NZ for some years. The speed and performance of the proa was gobsmacking, even more some considering it's a coconut tree and a collection of sticks. We did have the flash laminated sails, black polythene glued to bed sheets. Strings were made of coconut fibre. We exceeded 30knots comfortably, well they were comfortable I was expecting us to blow to little pieces but we never did. At that to the well known knowledge the Chinese did know how to make good boats and sail them over the horizon and I'm totally fine with the idea boats could sail to windward and do it very well 700 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 11:53:48 GMT 12
The niggle now is there are millions living on NZ soil who are 4th or more generation yet not Maori, myself being one of them, so they are also indigenous NZers.
YES we are GO30 ,we arrived 1877. Am I Irish?? Can identify myself as indigenous? YES born here. Family migrated here so can I identify as Moari?why not.Moari immergrated here
Have a card here from the Tuhono site that identifies me as maori,on Maori roll.
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Post by DuckMaster on Jan 2, 2023 14:18:48 GMT 12
The definition I used of indigenous was;
[PEOPLE] of or relating to the earliest known inhabitants of a place and especially of a place that was colonized by a now-dominant group
That's from my 1967 copy of the Oxford English dictionary, I don't think it's a particularly woke definition.
The UN and NZ law has established that Maori are the indeginous people of New Zealand.
As far as being Maori, NZ law has established that anyone of Maori decent is Maori. Even if you're 1/64th Maori you're considered Maori.
From what you've described it doesn't sound like you meet the definition of Maori to me.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Jan 2, 2023 14:34:03 GMT 12
I can run with Go30's hypothesis. It's as valid as the next one. Forebears arrived from Ireland via Plymouth in 1846 Like HT I've registered as a marry because I'm a person of the land, not European and definitely not pakeha. So I declare Irrelevant in Race space when form filling. All that's between me and that so called treaty is a few hundred years and lacking a tribe association. Hardly grounds to divide NZ like this govt has done and no grounds to bankrupt NZ by handing it over to 16% who happen to have a slightly longer ancestry than me (and some of the rest of NZ) and a tribal (read gang) afilliation
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Post by eri on Jan 3, 2023 10:09:32 GMT 12
shortages and price rises a typical sign of inexperienced, ideologically driven, woke/socialist gov. both central and local
ruling by decree and due to an ignorance of the 'coalface' causing chaos in the supply chain
our most recent example eggs
let's hope they don't try and "improve with added ideology" the supply of;
land, housing, water, energy, education, employment, health, pensions, immigrants
no wait!
too late
they have
nz - a lesson to the world on living the woke/socialist dream
it'll get worse as long as they're in power
but hopefully the healing can begin after the next election
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Post by GO30 on Jan 4, 2023 7:50:30 GMT 12
The niggle now is there are millions living on NZ soil who are 4th or more generation yet not Maori, myself being one of them, so they are also indigenous NZers. YES we are GO30 ,we arrived 1877. Am I Irish?? Can identify myself as indigenous? YES born here. Family migrated here so can I identify as Moari?why not.Moari immergrated here Have a card here from the Tuhono site that identifies me as maori,on Maori roll. Yeap you are indigenous but purely due to political and racial reasons no one is allowed to acknowledge that in NZ.
You, like me and millions of others, will never have the privileged or power Maori have in NZ society, we will forever be surfs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 8:16:24 GMT 12
If this was Australia.Would we then be Aboriginal?? No treaty bullshit there but Aussies treat ABOs like prehistoric beings. Maori should be thankful for what they have here.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Jan 4, 2023 9:08:02 GMT 12
Yes....HT thats correct. I worked there and treatment of Aboriginals was deplorable. But it's changing. Marry activists are over there advising them on a ToW lookalike thats backdated but written in terms of today. Sickly white leftie liberals are trying to hand Oz over to aboriginal activists. You're also correct. Marry got a far better deal out of the Poms than if French , Spanish , Dutch, Portugese et al had taken R T Rower over. Look at average maori today after 40 yrs of ToW. Are they better off. ? Hell no ...but the hierarchy have now joined the upper echelon of privileged NZers along with the bimbo,her cabinet and snivel servants (e.g. Bloomfield ) all at taxpayers expense
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