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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 30, 2022 22:16:16 GMT 12
Yip the usual laughable bullshit.
They used a 100 footππππ flying mojo, with a vibe, to guide them thru the milky way
FFS... You believe that shit.
Why go to NZ when the easterly trades could take them to Aussie?
How did they even know NZ existed.
F F S you have to know what was out there, where it is and how to get there... Before just randomly sailing thousands of miles in search of something. Who gave them the head's up!... Somebody who had already been thereπ€£π€£π€£π€£π€£
You are such an idiot!
How many coconuts to you store for a trip with no destination,you cannot see, no time frame, and no knowledge of what's there or where it is.
If you can't comprehend the logic of that then I am posting to a 1 year old!
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 30, 2022 22:24:14 GMT 12
I am curious, are you still sticking to your theory that they got here via some means other than a boat? If so, what was that means of travel? ship from other countries as crew, slaves, maybe Spanish, Portuguese, dutch, french, may be the Chinese or maybe.... You should wait for my next post to explain...
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 30, 2022 22:28:10 GMT 12
They did not know NZ existed.
The same as they didn't know Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Fiji, Tonga, Cook Is, Tahiti or Hawaii existed.
Why do you think that they knew any of those lands existed?
Able Tasman didn't know NZ existed either... I think that's why they call it discovery.
Do you think someone showed Abel Tasman the way? Or is it that only white people only have the patent on discovery?
James Cook took a Maori with him when he left NZ so that Maori could show Cook the way to the island he was from. Guess what Cook named that island?
They set out with all the stores they needed to sail in a particular direction for a number of days in search of the next land. If they didn't find it they headed home.
I really don't see why you are struggling to grasp this.
How do you think Maori first arrived in New Zealand?
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 30, 2022 22:36:58 GMT 12
I am curious, are you still sticking to your theory that they got here via some means other than a boat? If so, what was that means of travel? ship from other countries as crew, slaves, maybe Spanish, Portuguese, dutch, french, may be the Chinese or maybe.... You should wait for my next post to explain... Atleast you've given up the theory that they were already here. I am done discussing this. You can't believe any of what your saying, no one possibly could. It's rediculous. You're continually rude and obnoxious. I can see there's no point in trying to engage in conversation with you anymore so I will put you to my block list. Happy new year and enjoy your life of make believe. Hugz and kisses, farewell. xxoo
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 30, 2022 23:03:08 GMT 12
Suddenly much quieter in here and I missed this. Koru Pa near New Plymouth, which is a major riverside fortification with terrraces, pits, tunnels and with river stones pushed into all of the banks to make retaining walls. According to CelticNZ, it's obviously an ancient Irish castle complete with altars and a circle of Druidic standing stones. www.celticnz.co.nz/KoruPA/Koru%20PA.htmI mean, come on, it's just earthworks with some uncut river stones stacked on top of each other, with no mortar. Assuming that Maori were incapable of simple engineering smacks of racism, especially since Polynesians elsewhere in the Pacific built paved roads, trilithons, giant stone tombs, and whole cities. It's actually quite well known that Maori sometimes used stone walls around their gardens or to reinforce pa, and they made stone paths. Discovering some crudely constructed stone walls in the bush doesn't prove anyone was here prior to the Maori. OK, so let's just lay out these two competing theories and let Occam's Razor decide which is more likely. Accepted theory:
NZ was settled by gradual waves of settlers from the Pacific Islands, starting around 1000 - 1300 AD. Once Europeans started exploring the Pacific there were occasional settlers, missionaries and whalers, then larger waves of settlers in the 1800s as the British sought to establish dominance on the islands. These stone walls are possibly the remnants of a Maori place cause Maori used stone walls and stone paths www.teara.govt.nz/en/building-stone/1Celtic theory: The Iron Age population of Celts, who spread throughout north-west Europe around 400BC and apparently never crossed a body of water larger than the English Channel, built powerful ocean-going ships and successfully navigated around the southern tip of Africa (a feat not achieved again until 1488) or the even trickier Drake Passage (not sailed through again until 1616), and, ignoring every other landmass, continent and island on the way, powered their way down to the small, undiscovered islands of New Zealand, where they lived for thousands of years, and built an advanced 'stone city' in the North Island - and then promptly disappeared the instant Maori arrived, without leaving a single midden or skeleton behind. All evidence for this theory is suppressed and destroyed by the nefarious organisation known as 'DOC', because their entire organisation would be destroyed if the truth was revealed, and it's only thanks to the tireless efforts of an archae-astronomer / author from California that we are aware of this massive cover-up, which is why you should buy his book immediately. Hmmmmmmm. Yep it's definitely the Celts.
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 31, 2022 7:03:29 GMT 12
They did not know NZ existed. The same as they didn't know Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Fiji, Tonga, Cook Is, Tahiti or Hawaii existed. Why do you think that they knew any of those lands existed? Able Tasman didn't know NZ existed either... I think that's why they call it discovery. Do you think someone showed Abel Tasman the way? Or is it that only white people only have the patent on discovery? James Cook took a Maori with him when he left NZ so that Maori could show Cook the way to the island he was from. Guess what Cook named that island? They set out with all the stores they needed to sail in a particular direction for a number of days in search of the next land. If they didn't find it they headed home. I really don't see why you are struggling to grasp this. How do you think Maori first arrived in New Zealand?.. πππ How many coconuts did they " lash aboard their Waka for how long on a trip deeep south to a destination not known with no way to keep warm!!! Chuck master , Jacinda asked me to give you her most favorite game ..
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Post by armchairadmiral on Dec 31, 2022 7:50:07 GMT 12
A long way from Election 23 but just as much fantasy speculation hope (lessness) and opinion. For my sixpenneth worth IMO there were a heap of boats sailing around that never got recorded. Tasman, Cook and co were well recorded. Evidence of Spanish up north shows that. Doesn't prove how ,what,where or when. But as outlined it's against human nature to migrate to somewhere if you don't know its there. Come back to my earlier post about Piri Reis map. How ,what,where and when did that get drawn ? Not a rhetorical question. I have no idea but it certainly seems genuine just like the fact that maori got here. Just like I did. We're all immigrants just an argument about timing
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 31, 2022 8:33:41 GMT 12
A long way from Election 23 but just as much fantasy speculation hope (lessness) and opinion. For my sixpenneth worth IMO there were a heap of boats sailing around that never got recorded. Tasman, Cook and co were well recorded. Evidence of Spanish up north shows that. Doesn't prove how ,what,where or when. But as outlined it's against human nature to migrate to somewhere if you don't know its there. Come back to my earlier post about Piri Reis map. How ,what,where and when did that get drawn ? Not a rhetorical question. I have no idea but it certainly seems genuine just like the fact that maori got here. Just like I did. We're all immigrants just an argument about timing The Piri Reis map came from a culmination of maps from Columbus and many other explorers. Peri Reis took many different maps and put them together onto a single map. The map fragment that was found shows a land mass in the position of Antarctica with no snow cap. That would mean the source of that information was some 8000 years old given that's how long ago Antarctica didn't have an ice cap. There is still no proof proving or disproving that the Piri Reis map shows Antarctica or not. If people believe it is Antarctica, then it is conceivable that some civilization must have had advanced navigational skills that would be centuries ahead of their time and their map found its way to Peri Reis. The other more sensible idea is that it is a depiction of the lower coast of South America, which is the more probable idea, but no one knows for sure yet. Bottom line, no one knows for certain as the original maps that were used to create the Peri Reis were not found and only a fragment of the map was found. This is an image of the only map fragment which was found. images.app.goo.gl/qK1Kx1WouwYS6SvRALots of people have researched the map and can't conclude either way if it depicts Antarctica. Logic dictates that it isn't.
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Post by armchairadmiral on Dec 31, 2022 9:09:04 GMT 12
Thanks for that. I'm wary of logic because it only relates to what we already know and are comfortable with.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 31, 2022 9:46:26 GMT 12
Carbon dating and DNA analysis scientifically shows when Maori were first in New Zealand. Some people simply cannot handle the evidence that the Polynesian race was exploring East across the Pacific out of Asia 1000s of years before Columbus even set sail. Because it simply doesn't align with their racist view that Polynesian's couldn't possibly have been smart enough to discover New Zealand or any other landmass on their own.
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Post by OLD ROPE π on Dec 31, 2022 10:40:32 GMT 12
Racist veiw my arse!...
common sense rule my head space.
Trade winds determine where a Waka goes when It can't sail upwind.
Why did they not take a easier path to a easier target. . Aussie!
Such bullshit that comes from a non sailing scientist
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 11:51:26 GMT 12
If they were great sailors/navigators. Why do they not sail or crew or become navigators on ships etc. Because they got in a current with a trade wind and drifted here.Not just one raft left Polynesia but several at once.There is no way they could of drifted back to tell the others which may explain some of their personality, inbreed.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 31, 2022 13:28:57 GMT 12
If they were great sailors/navigators. Why do they not sail or crew or become navigators on ships etc. Because they got in a current with a trade wind and drifted here.Not just one raft left Polynesia but several at once.There is no way they could of drifted back to tell the others which may explain some of their personality, inbreed. The Polynesian navigators that originally settled the Polynesian triangle were ancestors of Maori. Not Maori. They didn't jump in their 7 canoes, suddenly find NZ out of luck and decide to become Maori the following day. 100s of years of exploration led them to discover New Zealand, along with the rest of Polynesia. Polynesian navigators in Ocean voyaging canoes travelled in search of Islands. They travelled upwind, because when supplies ran low, they could turn and run with the trade winds to get back to there island of origin quickly. They used celestial navigation to navigate to known islands, not to find new islands. We know that Polynesian's didn't set out on a way way journey in search of land hoping they would hit it or die adrift in the ocean. They left their home island and sailed in a particular direction for a number of days. If they found nothing they turned around and went home and tried again in another direction. When they found something they 'mapped it' in song and sailed home to share with others. There are plenty of references in records from the time of Cook, about the magnificent high speed sailing Canoes that were able to run circles around even the fastest European ships. Polynesian's did crew on European ships but not out of New Zealand from what I can tell. It was a Polynesian who helped Cook to Navigate to New Zealand in the first place. Tupaia joined the Endeavour in Tahiti. When they rocked up to Gisborne in 1769, Tupaia could speak the local language and was able to negotiate with the local Maori. By the time Cook arrived in New Zealand, Maoridom was well established and any need to continue exploring for land was gone some 300-400 years earlier. Maori had no need to find more lands, they had migrated to New Zealand and it provided plenty, food, water, fertile lands. The Maori ability to navigate by the stars was lost to time. They simply no longer needed the skill of ocean voyaging. They didn't just get lucky and float/drift here. The first explorers found NZ and went back to tell the others who then migrated here in fleets of Canoes. However you want slice or dice it, Maoridom was established in New Zealand 100s of years before the first European even discovered the Pacific Ocean, let alone sailed a boat around Good Hope or the Horn. Polynesian's first started settling NZ around 1200 (proved by carbon dating and dna) First boat to sail around Good Hope 1400 - 1500 Pacific Ocean discovered by Europeans 1513 (in Panama) First boat to sail around Cape Horn 1616 Abel Tasman discovers NZ (via Good Hope/Indian Ocean) 1642 Cook discovers NZ 1769 (via Cape Horn) Any suggestion that Polynesian's were somehow dropped off a European slave ship to NZ in the 1200's is simply poppycock. Any suggestion that another masterrace got here first and upped and left when Maori arrived is equally poppycock.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 13:35:17 GMT 12
none of the above explains why maori arent great sailors today
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 31, 2022 14:26:03 GMT 12
none of the above explains why maori arent great sailors today Polynesians who settled NZ were passengers. Not sailors. Just like the Europeans who settled NZ were passengers and not sailors. There's never been any evidence of the large 100ft sailing Canoes that cook reported seeing in Tahiti here in NZ. The closest was a 60ft ship wrecked canoe with Polynesian engravings found about 15 yrs ago. Polynesian sailors all fucked off in their boats on their next voyage and left the settlers to do what settlers do.
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