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Post by muzled on Dec 7, 2023 18:39:33 GMT 12
And some of that was driven by Maori themselves, because they wanted their kids to speak English. I'm not judging that good/bad/right/wrong, but it was the case. I know right! That's how successful the colonisation and assimilation machine (nearly) was... Maori people believed that there children couldn't possibly be successful if they learned Te reo. Absolutely crazy... Did they believe that? Or did they believe if they only knew Te Reo they wouldn't be successful? Maybe we're talking two different era's. I was more thinking when the kids only spoke Te Reo and were forced to learn English at skool. The 30's vs the 60's? But at the end of the day, a big chunk of the world speaks English. And unlike Spanish, it's effectively useless outside of our borders. The best way to foster the language is getting the people that want to learn it, to do so. Effectively forcing it on people will have the opposite effect. (could be language, sport, christianity, whatever...) |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 19:03:53 GMT 12
I know right! That's how successful the colonisation and assimilation machine (nearly) was... Maori people believed that there children couldn't possibly be successful if they learned Te reo. Absolutely crazy... Did they believe that? Or did they believe if they only knew Te Reo they wouldn't be successful? Maybe we're talking two different era's. I was more thinking when the kids only spoke Te Reo and were forced to learn English at skool. The 30's vs the 60's? But at the end of the day, a big chunk of the world speaks English. And unlike Spanish, it's effectively useless outside of our borders. The best way to foster the language is getting the people that want to learn it, to do so. Effectively forcing it on people will have the opposite effect. (could be language, sport, christianity, whatever...) The law was that only English was allowed to be taught and all classes had to be spoken in English. There was no option for the children to learn Te Reo in school. While it's use was never legally banned schools started punishing children for speaking it outside of class. So they weren't even allowed to learn it or use it if they wanted to. The colonization and assimilation process got Maori to start banning there children from using it and actively discouraged other Maori from using it everywhere. This was from the 1870s onwards. |
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Post by Hugh Jorgan on Dec 7, 2023 19:29:46 GMT 12
Please Mr Employer can I an extra 80c ph for learning Mandarin? Fuck off would be the answer. Unless of course I was employed as an interpreter. At least mandarin is spoken by more than 5000 people and will get you somewhere in the world! |
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Post by muzled on Dec 7, 2023 19:34:43 GMT 12
Did they believe that? Or did they believe if they only knew Te Reo they wouldn't be successful? Maybe we're talking two different era's. I was more thinking when the kids only spoke Te Reo and were forced to learn English at skool. The 30's vs the 60's? But at the end of the day, a big chunk of the world speaks English. And unlike Spanish, it's effectively useless outside of our borders. The best way to foster the language is getting the people that want to learn it, to do so. Effectively forcing it on people will have the opposite effect. (could be language, sport, christianity, whatever...) The law was that only English was allowed to be taught and all classes had to be spoken in English. There was no option for the children to learn Te Reo in school. While it's use was never legally banned schools started punishing children for speaking it outside of class. So they weren't even allowed to learn it or use it if they wanted to. The colonization and assimilation process got Maori to start banning there children from using it and actively discouraged other Maori from using it everywhere. This was from the 1870s onwards.
Really. All the Maori kids I grew up with (ie - my mates) used it, their parents taught them, and taught us various games and weaving skills. My father started learning it back in the early 80's so he could converse with most of the guys he worked with when they spoke it. edit to that - two of the three schools we played sport against at primary skool actively taught Te Reo, that was mid to late 70's. And prior to that, a family friend who went to one of those schools in the 50's still says he can't read and write because they mainly taught Te Reo rather than English. |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 19:45:43 GMT 12
Please Mr Employer can I an extra 80c ph for learning Mandarin? Fuck off would be the answer. Unless of course I was employed as an interpreter. At least mandarin is spoken by more than 5000 people and will get you somewhere in the world! Isn't it great that we have something unique to New Zealand that we can call our own? I like that my employer has started doing Karakia. It's once every 6 weeks for like 2 minutes... I love that my 20yo kids throw Maori words like mahi and kia ora around. They cannot speak it, but they know a shit ton more words than me! I am ashamed that a university teacher from the UK, been in NZ 2 years, who I know can prounce Maori words better than me. Words like Waitamata, Motuihe that I have been saying my entire life, I have been saying wrong... I mean seriously how did I spend 60yrs growing up in NZ on the harbour every week and neither me or any of my mates can even say Waitematā properly... It's a national disgrace. |
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Post by eri on Dec 7, 2023 19:48:14 GMT 12
poor old bradbury
too many of the "wrong type of maori" voted into the nz parliament
how dare these "modern? maori" not fall into the ready made caste of "victim-maori" that the left have carefully pre-prepared for them
how foolish of them to have individual thought and action
when "white maori" like bradbury have worked so hard to prepare perpetual victimhood for them
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 20:03:07 GMT 12
I tell you what's going be interesting to watch...
And that's how much the police and justice tell the government to fuck off.
They are legally separate and the government cannot tell them what to do or how to do it...
We already saw it under labour with the three strikes law... The judges went - er no - not on our watch - we're implementing this differently...
The minister for policing hates the commissioner... Well he ain't got no power fire him... Let's see how the get tough on crime policies actually play out...
Anyone noticed a drop in ram raids?
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 20:17:25 GMT 12
The law was that only English was allowed to be taught and all classes had to be spoken in English. There was no option for the children to learn Te Reo in school. While it's use was never legally banned schools started punishing children for speaking it outside of class. So they weren't even allowed to learn it or use it if they wanted to. The colonization and assimilation process got Maori to start banning there children from using it and actively discouraged other Maori from using it everywhere. This was from the 1870s onwards.
Really. All the Maori kids I grew up with (ie - my mates) used it, their parents taught them, and taught us various games and weaving skills. My father started learning it back in the early 80's so he could converse with most of the guys he worked with when they spoke it. edit to that - two of the three schools we played sport against at primary skool actively taught Te Reo, that was mid to late 70's. And prior to that, a family friend who went to one of those schools in the 50's still says he can't read and write because they mainly taught Te Reo rather than English. Do you know what school that was? The Native Schools Act ran from 1867 - 1969 those schools were for Maori and they were only allowed to teach English. In 1969 there were 108 native schools left that were transferred to the education board. I find it astounding that there would be a school in the 50s-60s era that only taught children Te Reo... |
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 20:21:59 GMT 12
According to all the history I have read Te Reo Maori didn't get back till the Maori Language Petition of 1972 when 30000 people signed petitions to bring the language back from the dead.
Schools started to introduce Te Reo again around 1973. So that time line fits.... But very interested about your family friend who was only taught Te Reo at a school in the 50's!?!? Wow...
I never got any exposure to it, my parents were adamant it was a dying language and I would have nothing to do with it.
You are very privileged to have grown up with Maori mates.
I don't know when Maori started embracing the language and teaching their children again. My guess is the generation of the 1972 Maori Language Petition... So maybe children of the 50s?
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 7, 2023 22:23:59 GMT 12
Here's a very interesting research paper. Delves into the assimilation of Maori but the focus is on the education system. The politics of learning and teaching in Aotearoa - New Zealand hekakano.tki.org.nz/content/download/334/2397/file/H.Waitere2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjc_cvzhv2CAxWcslYBHV0iCRIQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1a-2iIu37IdXwQrkj4HQpySo key take outs for me which aligns with your family friend, that during 50s the number of Maori children in public schools out stripped the number of children in Native Schools. Public schools didn't teach Te Reo but they gave little to no support to Maori children who had to fumble through school life. So if I have interpreted this correctly your family friend was probably taught to write and speak Te Reo by his whanau and at school he received no support to learn English... I've found no evidence that Te Reo Maori was taught in any "Government School" before 1972... |
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Post by Hugh Jorgan on Dec 8, 2023 8:07:36 GMT 12
We live in a time where the intelligent people, who pay for everything, are being silenced so that the stupid people, who get stuff for free, will not be offended.
Firstly Maori langauge should be a voluntary option not a forced unmandated political order.
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Post by DuckMaster on Dec 8, 2023 8:17:35 GMT 12
We live in a time where the intelligent people, who pay for everything, are being silenced so that the stupid people, who get stuff for free, will not be offended. Firstly Maori langauge should be a voluntary option not a forced unmandated political order. It's a pity our ancestors didn't share the same feelings about English being forced on Maori for 110yrs. This mess we're in today would be a very different mess if they had... Now we're left to either fix mistakes made over 150yrs ago or make it worse! |
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Post by sabre on Dec 8, 2023 8:26:15 GMT 12
We live in a time where the intelligent people, who pay for everything, are being silenced so that the stupid people, who get stuff for free, will not be offended. Firstly Maori langauge should be a voluntary option not a forced unmandated political order. It's a pity our ancestors didn't share the same feelings about English being forced on Maori for 110yrs. This mess we're in today would be a very different mess if they had... Now we're left to either fix mistakes made over 150yrs ago or make it worse! If you think that the government forcing a language on people who don't want it, is some sort of solution to your woke ills then you are even more mentally challenged than I thought. |
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Post by Hugh Jorgan on Dec 8, 2023 8:27:49 GMT 12
It wàsnt forced it was offered . And gracefully accepted and progressed maori into the global community.. in fact it was needed to save maori from themselves.. or before another flagged ship arrived from France or Spain or .. with less than peaceful intentions
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Post by muzled on Dec 8, 2023 8:40:55 GMT 12
The colonization and assimilation process got Maori to start banning there children from using it and actively discouraged other Maori from using it everywhere.
Really. All the Maori kids I grew up with (ie - my mates) used it, their parents taught them, and taught us various games and weaving skills. My father started learning it back in the early 80's so he could converse with most of the guys he worked with when they spoke it. edit to that - two of the three schools we played sport against at primary skool actively taught Te Reo, that was mid to late 70's. And prior to that, a family friend who went to one of those schools in the 50's still says he can't read and write because they mainly taught Te Reo rather than English. Do you know what school that was? The Native Schools Act ran from 1867 - 1969 those schools were for Maori and they were only allowed to teach English. In 1969 there were 108 native schools left that were transferred to the education board. I find it astounding that there would be a school in the 50s-60s era that only taught children Te Reo... Just for clarity, here is my quote - And prior to that, a family friend who went to one of those schools in the 50's still says he can't read and write because they mainly taught Te Reo rather than English. No mention of 'only'.  (I actually meant he can't read or write very well rather than he can't do either at all) Yes I can name that skool, it was Manaia, (not the one in Taranaki). Drive past it now and it's the flashest school around. Was I privileged to grow up with it? That's not the word I would use as effectively you're saying anyone that didn't grow up with it is underprivileged, which I also don't believe, I certainly loved it but mainly because my mates were awesome mates and we roamed free, in bare feet of course...  It wasn't anything special at the time though, it was a small community and it the best thing was, it was a community in the best sense of the word. No one cared what colour your skin was, we just wanted to play rugby, cowboys and indians in the bush (are you even allowed to do that now?) and climb trees, same as most other rural communities in the 70's I'd say. Often we were envious of our Maori mates as they were better at sport and laughed more than us, a lot of the time - at us, which looking at my kids growing up in a very white area, is one of the things I look back and like the most, the ability to be laughed at, we soon learnt to laugh at ourseves like they did at themselves. Of course it wasn't all rainbows and unicorns, no one had much money, and there was the odd time when women got beaten badly, and we saw the aftermath of that becasue sometimes we were there when it happened. And always lots of fights at parties. If you went to a party, a fight was pretty much a given. Again, common for rural nz I'd say. I watched the Once were Warriors reunion video the other night by chance (didn't know it existed tbh but it's a great little doco!) and it bought back a few memories of growing up, both good and bad. I find it suprising that people haven't been to a marae or had hangi, that's an odd concept to me as we did both multiple times a year for many years. Our 3rd form skool camp was a week on a marae over the hill. Looking back, some of that was for the cultural experience, but some of it was also because a lot of the families had no money and that would have been the cheapest way they could do the camp. I was talking to one of my kids skool dads a while back, he's a high court judge and was saying he was off to rotovegas to stay on a marae and learn about tikanga. He was quite excited about it. I was quite confused. As in, what has tikanga got to do with being a high court judge? (catching up with him tomorrow so hopefully I'll get to ask him as I'm still baffled as to why several high court judges would get paid to go and learn about such a thing). He's very interesting to talk to so I'm looking forward to hearing about the thinking behind it and I can assure you I'm higly sceptical I'll agree with it - but I shall report back if you're interested. |
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(I actually meant he can't read or write very well rather than he can't do either at all)