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Post by armchairadmiral on Nov 30, 2021 13:30:22 GMT 12
As I thought the Government is now pitting us all against each other by law. A Christmas family gathering at home you are required by law to inspect each family member's Vax status if there is more than 25 present. The Government can get stuffed. Imagine asking M - in-law for her certificate ! This is Yellow Star of David stuff and we're having no part in it. In fact I'm not presenting my cert to anyone until I run out of options of where I want to go or what I want to do. Unbelievable.NZ 2021 and this is what our family went to WW1 and WW2 to fight and die for ? To repeat...Vaxxed people can transmit just like unvaxxed.
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Post by fish on Nov 30, 2021 14:01:56 GMT 12
Interesting anecdote.
The Tarras cafe, Otago. The owners and 8 out of 10 staff are unvaxxed. Rules change tomorrow requiring checking of the Star of David, so they are closing.
Now, in the start, lockdowns (substantial restrictions on freedom of movement) where justified, as there was a clear and present threat from the virus, and the lockdowns were finite.
Looking at the Tarras Cafe, the South Island is currently at L2 - so very few restrictions. More to the point, there is no covid in Otago, and only 3 cases in Nelson (so the SI is basically free of it).
This change to the traffic light system is brining about substantial infringements of human rights. But in the SI, there is no need, justification or any reason for the human rights infringements at all.
It is a shame we don't have a functioning opposition to question this. That is before we get into freedom of speech. Russell Coutts has been threatened with having his account blocked, all he has been doing is questioning the Govt...
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Post by Fogg on Nov 30, 2021 14:06:05 GMT 12
Yes indeed it beggars belief. This is certainly not the country I fell in love with and decided to build a new life in 20yrs ago…
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 30, 2021 15:34:42 GMT 12
It is a shame we don't have a functioning opposition to question this. or a functioning media, just government propaganda outlets, Media Works (Newshub and TV3), NZME (Ferald), Stuffed, RNZ, TV1 There are also further vaccine mandates by stealth, it was announced last Friday that our project and every other of the company's jobs will be no jab no job. Same with all the other major contractors in NZ who work for central government or local, be it in infrastructure, building, whatever. This has come from the government and the instruction is that this has to extend to all subcontractors. I believe the same for consultants - how about your organization Fish? So the guy who changes light bulbs or mows the lawn at a school is now subject to this requirement even thought there is no lawful basis for it. Where is this all going to finish in our once wonderful country  |
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Post by GO30 on Nov 30, 2021 19:45:14 GMT 12
We got told today that as we supply councils we have to be fully vaxxed. I replied 'Not happen and as we despise the sad n desperate who discriminate like YOU, I have closed your account'. But I did it knowing they have no option but to deal or they can try our principle, who will just send them back to us. It was a hick council from the arse end of who gives a shit. Got one last week from a Govt Dept requesting info on some gear and about 1/4 of it was written in Maori. I knew a few words but no show with most of them. As it only seemed fair, considering we are the worlds most multicultural country, I replied in full Vietnamese. We got a PO yesterday  |
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Post by fish on Nov 30, 2021 20:08:43 GMT 12
There are also further vaccine mandates by stealth, it was announced last Friday that our project and every other of the company's jobs will be no jab no job. Same with all the other major contractors in NZ who work for central government or local, be it in infrastructure, building, whatever. This has come from the government and the instruction is that this has to extend to all subcontractors. I believe the same for consultants - how about your organization Fish? So the guy who changes light bulbs or mows the lawn at a school is now subject to this requirement even thought there is no lawful basis for it. Where is this all going to finish in our once wonderful country We don't have a blanket mandate - yet. We had a voluntary vax survey, then a compulsory vax survey. They also asked our views on the need for a mandate, and a few things like if we were happy working with unvaccinated colleagues. All fells rather dystopian. We have to follow our client requirements on their sites or offices, which is not surprising. Watercare came out a while ago with a strong vax mandate, but they are a lifeline utility, so it is fairly hard to argue with that. Although there mandate covers capital projects on sites that are controlled by contractors, as opposed to basic O&M functions. I don't see how my company (a large consultancy) can justify a mandate when 99% of staff are office based, and three quarters of us are more efficient when working from home. Amazing the impact on our Greenhouse Gas baselines when we have video conferences instead of flying everywhere for face to face meetings. I am not going to be surprised if my outfit does introduce a blanket mandate though. It is the latest thing. Last year it was LGBTQA and the rainbow tick. The year before was sustainability, the year before was innovation or something. This year is medical discrimination sorry, I mean vaccine mandates. There is so much pressure on the unvaccinated, it is incomprehensible. I have a senior colleague who can't do his current role for Watercare any more. I have a relation who has lost her job to the vaccine mandate. She is a mental health field worker... will be sorely missed. I know of three teachers from my kids primary school gone (these are personally know, not know someone that knows someone bullshit). But none of this reduces the risks of transmission. The mental health worker is in a part of the country where there is no covid. My colleague does site inspections, so by definition it is all outside (where you are allowed to meet with up to 25). And the teachers, there is still 29 unvaccinated people in each of their classes. It all makes me sick. |
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Post by fish on Nov 30, 2021 20:47:43 GMT 12
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Post by digger on Nov 30, 2021 23:56:39 GMT 12
Divide by zero error for Godwin’s law
The no jab no job is almost at the point of being H&S best practice…. Almost
I work for a tier 1 contractor and we don’t have a vax policy. Plenty of encouragement but nothing else
We are subject to the golden rule though, our clients have the gold so they set the rules. There are very jobs on the cards at the moment that aren’t tax payer funded somewhere along the line, so we are being leant on, but I’ve not seen it written into a tender yet. Can’t speak for the water care jobs we have on, haven’t checked in with those for a little while, but it wasn,t formally asked on the WKNZTA job I went to the other day
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 6:29:19 GMT 12
That is typical failure to understand the rules on their behalf. It is true ONLY if you or your Staff have to go to a Council Facility.
As are many of the others here bleeting on about the rules. You are using the extremes of interpretation. No one is pitting family against Family. In fact you are the ones bleeting on about the rules being so complicated due to the long wording and now you complain that the wording does not spell out greater detail of what is and is not allowed. It is just like the days when KM had Plastic Chain and Polystyrene Anchor because the rules did not spell out that he could not. So then the organisers have to rewrite the Law to cover that. I think several of you are falling into the catergory of complaining for the sake of complaining and then we all wonder why regulations become the way they do. And as for yellow star of David comments, come on guys, that is pretty deeply offensive, even if there is no one participating here that would take such offense.
Yes true....technically..... but you fail to understand a couple of very important points.
Vaccination is all about prtoection of the Person vaccinated. Where as Face masks and distancing are about protecting others.
If you are vaccinated, the Virus remains infectious within us for a VERY short period of time. It does depend on the individual, but the infectious period can be down to just hrs. Even then, the ability for the Virus to replicate is severely impaired.
The chance of mutation is exponentially reduced. The chances of the Virus causing someone to become seriously ill is expontentially reduced. The chances of the Virus being passed on is greatly reduced.
The greater the number and time People remain unvaccinated, the greater the chance of more Variants. And of one being produced that is as infectious as Omicron, but even deadlier than what we have currently seen in the World.
The entire reasoning behind the Gvt doing what they are doing comes down to trying to get those vaccination resistant people to make their own choice to get vaccinated, or miss out on the freedoms others so easliy have. Simple as that. And the sooner we get everyone vaccinated, the sooner we all can return to a slightly more normal way of life and get our Country earning again.
Make no mistake, those that are not vaccinated are the ones causing the problems for us all. NOT the Gvt.
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 6:36:03 GMT 12
You will find it will change pretty quickly. All big industry I know of has headed down the No vaccine no entry route. Airbus went a tad extreme I thought. You are given a list before you can enter. There are three boxes to tick.
Have you been vaccinated. Y/N
You are not currently vaccinated Y/N
Do you intend to be vaccinated Y/N
Do you intend not to be vaccinated. Y/N
And tick of the last three means turn around and leave.
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Post by digger on Dec 1, 2021 12:29:19 GMT 12
We’ve got a long way to go yet
Austria has made vaccinations compulsory
Greece has gone as far as fining the over 60’s 100eur a month until they have their jab. Death toll in Greece Is around 18000
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Post by armchairadmiral on Dec 1, 2021 12:56:54 GMT 12
I don't have a problem with unvaxxed. 18000 dead in Greece,assuming vax freely available is a personal choice. as I've said before this is more about power,control domination and dictatorship over the population than it is about Covid. The production of a certificate is total control.
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Post by fish on Dec 1, 2021 13:51:35 GMT 12
Consider this, you lot.
Lets say you work for Medsafe, and your task is to assess and recommend approval (or not) of the pediatric Pfizer vaccine. You are of course an independent assessor and regulator of medications in NZ.
Now, the Minister announces to the country that their kids will be able get vaccinated by the end of January.
Do you feel any pressure to just approve the vaccine?
Would it cause much of a problem if you had some niggling doubts about a grey area of the safety results?
Would you raise those doubts?
Or just approve the vaccine cause the Minister wants it approved?
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Post by Fogg on Dec 1, 2021 13:56:50 GMT 12
Great debate guys - some good arguments both sides on lots of points!
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 14:19:08 GMT 12
No it absolutely isn't. It is about safeguarding those that for ligitimate reasons, (age, health etc etc) cannot be vaccinated. It is also about cost to Country. Right at the very begining or Covid, the Gvt took advice on cost analyses of what it could cost the Country either way. Lock down or let it run like several other countries did. They chose the lock down because the estimate of what it would cost NZ otherwise was eye watering. I forget the figures because it was so long back now, but it was astonishing. And the Death toll was staggering. All very well proven now by looking at the Countries that took the stance of let it run and keep the boarders open. Seriously, there are some Countries that are in deep doodoo, but that has not yet hit the Fan because they are still very occupied in controlling the Virus.
Do not read me wrong here. I am not saying I support the current Gvt and I am one of the first to say that they have done a poor job at managing this. But it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with control.
In fact if you want to believe they are trying to control us all,
1: they have failed miserably at it,
2: there are far better ways to achieve control of a population,
3: and Why? What on earth do you think they are trying to control us for? What are they trying to achieve?
To control a Population in a way that, as some call it, Communism or Nazism, (I find it funny when a Person uses both terms, because they appose each other) then the best way of doing that is to use the Military to take over the Country and control people at Gunpoint.
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