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Post by armchairadmiral on Dec 1, 2021 14:21:36 GMT 12
Consider this, you lot. Lets say you work for Medsafe, and your task is to assess and recommend approval (or not) of the pediatric Pfizer vaccine. You are of course an independent assessor and regulator of medications in NZ. Now, the Minister announces to the country that their kids will be able get vaccinated by the end of January. Do you feel any pressure to just approve the vaccine? Would it cause much of a problem if you had some niggling doubts about a grey area of the safety results? Would you raise those doubts? Or just approve the vaccine cause the Minister wants it approved? No pressure or compulsion to get jabbed in NZ. Yeah right. From Friday I'm banned (so far )from my regular cafe,Yacht Club and Golf Club unless I produce ID & Vax Cert. Can't believe NZ is going to wear this crap especially considering it is not required at Supermarket,Gas Station,Public Transport Food Banks and Pharmacies. Where are the most likely transmission points ? This is not really about Covid is it? BTW I'm vaxxed for those just joining in. |
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 14:34:54 GMT 12
That is not how it worked. While technically Medsafe is said to be the Aproval authority, the actual approval for use was done by Pfizer. Medsafe simply evaluated the Informatin given by Pfizer. Approval for the various ages had been approved a few months back by Pfizer. It has taken, in my opinion, far too long for either Medsafe or Gvt (not sure which is to blame) to give the Green light. Pfizer carried out a lot of testing and evaluations in the age ranges and then they announced to the US Gvt that the data showed it was safe to use and the US gvt approved it. NZ Gvt heard of the US Gvts approval and they put Medsafe into gear to contact Pfizer and get all information and evaluate it. Which they have been doing. Medsafe then advised the Gvt that it is safe to go with and finally, the Gvt has implemented it's use.
By the way, Pfizer has just released information that infants in their 1st yr are safe wit vaccination.
Remember too, that Alpha was deadly for the mainly elderly People. Delta lowered that bar somewhat to the middle age. Omicron seems to be showing that quite young are being affected. Plus the longer the Virus bounces around out there, the greater the chance of more Variants. So we need to get as many vaccinated as possible.
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Post by fish on Dec 1, 2021 14:36:35 GMT 12
The issues is that the vaccine mandates are creating a very deep social rift in New Zealand.
Further, this rift is not being reported, nor even acknowledged in most quarters.
While vaccines have benefits, they also have limitations. Now (Tomorrow) we go into a system where a wide number of daily activities are not permitted based on a form of medical discrimination, being vaccine passes.
Yes, there is a place for mandates, border and MIQ is the strongest arguement. But the is massive overreach in the mandates. There are substantial unintended consequences in social and economic outcomes for the country. Imagine sacking 1,300 health workers during a pandemic?
There is very little acknowledgement in the short effective life of the Pfizer shot to prevent infection. Universally, it is 'do as you are told'. There is massive censorship on social media, to the point where it is not possible to find or hear any dissenting views. Even Sir Russel Coutts has been threatened with having his accounts blocked... for questioning the govt.
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 15:08:00 GMT 12
I don't understand, if you are vaxx'd, why are you banned?
Lets get something clear here.
Yes, everyone has rights. Absolutely. The Main one being a right to be safe.
Certainly there are other very important Human rights as well, but the Safe part takes precidence over pretty much everything else. Hence why our society has many laws in place to protect the "innocent". For instance, driving at the legal speed limit is not about keeping the driver safe. But there is a right to safety for every other innocent person on and around the road, passengers and even for those that have to attend the aftermath of an accident. That of course comes at the cost of a certain amount of freedom to the Driver. He can't just go whatever speed he thinks he can drive at. If it was purely concerning himself only, then I would imagine there wound be no speed limit.
The same "rules" apply with the vaccinated/unvaccinated. Everyone has a right to remain safe, which comes at the cost of a certain amount of freedom for everyone. In this case, the requirement to be vaccinated. But even then, people still have a choice to be vaccinated or not. No one is saying "You shall be vaccinated or you will be exiled to a remote Island". Also, Non vaccinated does not mean they have been "forced" to lose their Job. They chose to leave their job. That is a very big difference. Just like your Boss might say you can't come to work stonned, or drunk, or armed, that may put others around at risk in some way. To be non vaccinated puts others around them at risk. Especially if they are also non vaccinated and remember, there are many that cannot be, due to Age limit, Health issues and etc etc.
As for the Supermarkets etc etc, yeah I agree it is plain stupidity to allow non vaccinated into these places. But this is also where it is really shown that it is not about "Control", because the Gvt has deemed that those that choose not to get vaccinated still have a right to Food and Fuel and so on. Plus, those that have been stood down or left their jobs have instant access to the Benifit. So they have also been given a right to access money.
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Post by grounded on Dec 1, 2021 15:15:22 GMT 12
That simply is not true. Media have full information available, just like everyone does. In fact if anything, there is far too much information available to those that care to look for it. So much so, that many have not understood some of it because it was intended for Medical/Scientific/Research purposes. But there is heaps and heaps of info, both from Gvt websites, or if you don't trust them, then from Medical Institutions.
Can you provide the link to Coutts situation? Because that is certainly not what I understood.
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Post by fish on Dec 1, 2021 17:08:42 GMT 12
That simply is not true. Media have full information available, just like everyone does. In fact if anything, there is far too much information available to those that care to look for it. So much so, that many have not understood some of it because it was intended for Medical/Scientific/Research purposes. But there is heaps and heaps of info, both from Gvt websites, or if you don't trust them, then from Medical Institutions. Can you provide the link to Coutts situation? Because that is certainly not what I understood. What a load of nonsense. It is the govt controlling the narrative, not the media. The Coutts situation? I thought you were good at doing your own research? Do you know what you don't know? there is a hell of a lot of censorship. Very hard to find adverse stories or dissenting views out there. |
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Post by GO30 on Dec 1, 2021 18:54:19 GMT 12
By the way, Pfizer has just released information that infants in their 1st yr are safe wit vaccination. With the total immunity they demanded and were given before they would supply they can say whatever they like, no skin off their nose.
Pfizer was all over all my reports this arvo, their share price rose over an outstanding 2.5% today. Pundits are expecting it to rise more now Govt have decided to stab the kids and Omiwhatsit.
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Post by GO30 on Dec 1, 2021 19:18:33 GMT 12
What a load of nonsense. It is the govt controlling the narrative, not the media. The Coutts situation? I thought you were good at doing your own research? Do you know what you don't know? there is a hell of a lot of censorship. Very hard to find adverse stories or dissenting views out there. The Govt is controlling the media, even the hardcore leftist Jacinda Weinstein fan club are starting to acknowledge that.
Who knew it was that easy to shut Russel down  He's not one to be quietened easily but he made what 1.5 news cycles before being disappeared. |
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Post by grounded on Dec 2, 2021 5:59:50 GMT 12
Firstly, you do know that Pfizer did not invent this vaccine don't you. The Company that invented it is BioNTech. Pfiszer simply invested and allowed BioNTech to produce it in vast quantity.
And remember Pfizer is only one of many different Vaccines. Also remember that NZ is a little pimple in the quantities of vaccine being produced. NZ it'self is not going to cause any dramatic sharemarket rise in itself. Talk up and the fact that there is very little in the World to invest in wisely at the mo means that anything positive is jumped on by investers. Of course share prices are going to rise.
The total immunity "they demanded" is yet another of the initial conspiracy theorists lies. Pfizer, just like any Vaccine or Drug manufacturer can still be sued into oblivion if the Vaccine killed people on mass.
Ever single lie that came out about Vaccines can all be traced back to far right propaganda.
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Post by grounded on Dec 2, 2021 6:13:03 GMT 12
Re read my pot. I said I knew about the story of Coutts accusing the Gvt. What I asked of you is where has Coutts been threatened with being kicked off Social Media or correspondence with Gvt or what ever the heck you are suggesting? I asked for proof, you just replied with argument. I suggest that you don't have any proof. I have looked and I cannot find anything about such an allegation.
As for adverse stories or dessenting views? about what exactly? The Internet is FULL of negative comments about the vaccine, if that is what you are in about. And there is hardly a fraction of truth to any of it. If you are looking for such views, then there are two reasons for you looking. You want to find an "Ah Ha I knew it" to prove your view, or there simply is no to very little negative.
The only negatives to the Pfizer vaccines is that for many people, they get a Flu like condition after vaccination. For a small few, they have been quite unwell. For a smaller fraction again, they have been very unwell to the point of deciding not to be jabbed twice. They can have the other Vaccine if that is the case. For one Woman here in NZ, she died. Out of millions of doses here in NZ, 1 death. Take a very hard look at the other Countries and their Death rates. As said on TV last night, 700 People died in Fiji in just a few months. 1400 ruffly were infected per day at it's peak. Like many of the other stories in other Countries, the Health systems have no chance of coping.
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Post by fish on Dec 2, 2021 9:36:40 GMT 12
Re read my pot. I said I knew about the story of Coutts accusing the Gvt. What I asked of you is where has Coutts been threatened with being kicked off Social Media or correspondence with Gvt or what ever the heck you are suggesting? I asked for proof, you just replied with argument. I suggest that you don't have any proof. I have looked and I cannot find anything about such an allegation. As for adverse stories or dessenting views? about what exactly? The Internet is FULL of negative comments about the vaccine, if that is what you are in about. And there is hardly a fraction of truth to any of it. If you are looking for such views, then there are two reasons for you looking. You want to find an "Ah Ha I knew it" to prove your view, or there simply is no to very little negative. The only negatives to the Pfizer vaccines is that for many people, they get a Flu like condition after vaccination. For a small few, they have been quite unwell. For a smaller fraction again, they have been very unwell to the point of deciding not to be jabbed twice. They can have the other Vaccine if that is the case. For one Woman here in NZ, she died. Out of millions of doses here in NZ, 1 death. Take a very hard look at the other Countries and their Death rates. As said on TV last night, 700 People died in Fiji in just a few months. 1400 ruffly were infected per day at it's peak. Like many of the other stories in other Countries, the Health systems have no chance of coping. Gee you talk through a hole in your arse sometimes Alan. My own experience with the vaccine, personal, real world experience, demonstrates you are wrong. Are you aware of how many unexpected deaths have occurred post vaccine in NZ? Ones that are buried in the coroners court? You talk as if you are a world leading authority on the subject. Your problem is you have some reasonable technical knowledge in a narrow area, and think that, after a couple of google searches you know more than everyone else. Like we can't read. This may come as a shock to you, but other people have different views, and because they are different to you doesn't mean they are wrong. It probably means you think you know what you know, but in reality you don't know what you don't know. If you were familiar with the Coutts situation you would have seen his comments on the threats he received to shut down his account. If you were familiar with my situation, you would be aware that the two reasons you give for searching for information are absolutely wrong. Question, are you personally aware of any information that was blocked or censored when you went to look for it? If you didn't know it wasn't there, did you ever know what you don't know? |
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Post by dutyfree on Dec 2, 2021 10:06:49 GMT 12
I personally know of a hospitalised early 20's person due to the vaccine. Healthy, active worker, was an employment requiement. Ended up being taken to hospital in ambulance with the known heart issue that can occur. Has now been off work for close to 3 months. Drs in hospital - adverse reaction to the vaccine. Notes in hospital no mention of it. Follow-up with hospital multiple times to get it recorded as it is needed for ACC etc.
The perception was that there was a reluctance to record anything anti-vaccine, I dont know if that is true, but perceptions matter.
I am part of a very large team that is fully vaccinated i.e. multiple 100s of people. There have been a varying degree of adverse reactions, I dont think anyone was hospitalised.
Numerically in an extremely large scale vaccination program there will be a large number of observable adverse reactions. The compressed nature of the global program means they occur closer together so have the potential to appear more prominent, but could be statically consistent with any other vaccine.
So they do happen, there will appear to be more than normal, there may be more than we realise.
I would still get it again, I will get a booster. I would be circumspect on children under 18, particularly boys with the Pfizer vaccine.
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Post by El Toro on Dec 2, 2021 10:41:23 GMT 12
I am appalled they are going to force children to have it, they haven't said they will force it yet, but they will, just like they did with mandates after saying it would be optional. Sure it is optional, but you just cant do anything if you haven't had it.
To give kids this jab when they have almost zero risk disgusts me, and if I had the ability to home school for next few years Id probably take it.
Im sure my kids school will force it, ie wont be able to play at lunch time, force mask wearing, not allow them to play sport.... just make it impossible it function without having it.
Its all starting to come out now from what I see, even the Guardian had a great article a week or so back saying the vaccines are useless and the British Medical Journal came out as well stating more people are dying after the jab and catching covid than those not jabbed, not to mention all the deaths as side effects, which everyone appears hell bend on hiding, doctors terrified to come out and say the jab killed someone etc.
I had my second jab yesterday and was none to happy about having it.
From what Ive read not one person, not one, has died from the new variant, and yet borders are going back up and the fear machine is back into full swing backed by a complicate world media desperate to sell headlines.
Im starting to have serious doubts over the the jab and beginning to think we are all getting taken for a huge ride.
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Post by fish on Dec 2, 2021 11:49:59 GMT 12
So, I've just finished an appointment with a trusted medical professional.
I've been advised to lodge a CARM incident report.
And, that payments have been made to the families of those who have died. This is why we aren't hearing about it. The families salience is being brought.
The stories pop up, then disappear suspiciously quickly...
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Post by ComfortZone on Dec 2, 2021 12:20:27 GMT 12
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He's not one to be quietened easily but he made what 1.5 news cycles before being disappeared. 