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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 20, 2024 8:16:29 GMT 12
DOC are planning a big 1080 drop on Stewart Island next year, targeting Norwegian Rats. Alot of controversy about this and remarkable to know that NZ uses approx 80% of 1080 used world wide and it sounds to me like it causes more harm than good, allegedly killing almost everything where it is used. Opinions??
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Post by Cantab on Nov 20, 2024 8:17:46 GMT 12
"targeting" would be stretching it a bit.
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Post by muzled on Nov 20, 2024 8:55:33 GMT 12
And you can guarantee that it'll be strong enough to kill deer.
That's long been people's gripe, DOC want to wipe out anything that isn't native to nuzld.
Savage colonising deer/thar/chamios are up there on the target species as much as rats/possums/stoats are.
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 20, 2024 11:42:50 GMT 12
I think all the arguments against aereally dispersed (correct that it's in no way "targetted" - except that it will generally head towards the ground, relative to the aircraft) are pretty well established/documented/proven.
I don't think it's a surprise that the nz government is the largest global producer of 1080 (it being banned in most of the world), and also the largest consumer.
In more ethical settings with some kind of oversight or accountability that could be seen as a conflict of interest.
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1080 Drops
Nov 20, 2024 16:17:51 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by dutyfree on Nov 20, 2024 16:17:51 GMT 12
Genuine question, if not 1080 then what? 8.7m hectares of conservation estate. That’s a lot of trapping or shooters required.
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 20, 2024 16:53:42 GMT 12
Genuine question, if not 1080 then what? 8.7m hectares of conservation estate. That’s a lot of trapping or shooters required. Aerial 1080. Done for 60+? years.
So safe and effective they're considering slowing down or stopping... |
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 20, 2024 16:58:46 GMT 12
You also need to define... then what, WHAT? What's the goal? I mean DOC's stated goal, asides from filling the budget to make sure they get it next year, is... umm, possums or something? In less sarcastic terms, look to every "predator free" or "sanctuary estate", or even the neighbourhoods where kiwi are expected (a lot of the east coast in Northland, all around Makara valley/gardens in wellington) and see what measures have got them there. |
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Post by dutyfree on Nov 21, 2024 7:15:21 GMT 12
I get the predator free stuff. In a previous life I was involved at the sponsorship level for a large one. It was a fight to get DOC to abandon their approach of only using offshore islands no one is allowed to visit.
I see the objective of pest control as limiting them and allowing native species to survive better. I have seen some of the adjacent effects of predator limitation, positive that is.
In the broader conservation estate do we just limit to trackside trapping? Is there something else? Genetic modification of possums??sterile ones?
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 21, 2024 7:53:21 GMT 12
I see the objective of pest control as limiting them and allowing native species to survive better. I have seen some of the adjacent effects of predator limitation, positive that is. In the broader conservation estate do we just limit to trackside trapping? Is there something else? Genetic modification of possums??sterile ones? Shared objective is a good start. Pest "control" would imply there's some suitable level of pests. Nature will find that level over time. Some would argue that humans and particularly an urban consumerist lifestyle, is more environmentally destructive than all the possums cats rats and rabbits combined, so there's that too. But not many people willing to give that up. Especially quartermillion+dollar-salaried politicians signing off budgets, eh. Pest -eradication- would be a better objective. But you just try go rounding up all your neighbour's cats and see how popular you are. Also a non-starter, really, unless there's community willing (as there is in some places) I doubt you'd find much popular support for any biological control, especially gmo. Why don't they 1080 cities? Where's the push to dig up roads and reforest? It's all nimby, pay money to move the issue somewhere it wont infringe my lifestyle. |
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Post by dutyfree on Nov 22, 2024 5:55:08 GMT 12
Ok, so you throw some strawman topics including expanding the scope from the conservation estate to every where. That’s ok. So you don’t actually have a solution other than natural balance. Humans are part of nature and so we are naturally rebalancing the world too.
That does not mean we should not attempt to mitigate effects of our past and current choices.
Within the conservation estate 33% of NZ we could adopt your approach ie leave the human introduced species to achieve a new natural point. I am not sure what that looks like. Again I am genuinely interested if you are aware of an area where that has been tried?
We can all see what it looks like outside of that ie urban , farmland and plantation forests. Those areas all pursue some degree of pest control. They all have some reduced degree of native species remaining.
My relatives go and shoot wallabies near Rotorua for free as they are slowly spreading. Should we limit the shooting to allow a new natural level of wallabies?
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Post by Cantab on Nov 22, 2024 6:14:47 GMT 12
Remember when we had the rabbit board? Farmers were force charged moonbeams for the government to eradicate bunnies.
Problem was, the farms kept getting rabbit plagues, except the ones that employed their own rabbiters, on top of paying the levies.
Carrot farmers did pretty well too.
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 22, 2024 8:23:46 GMT 12
Remember when we had the rabbit board? Farmers were force charged moonbeams for the government to eradicate bunnies. Problem was, the farms kept getting rabbit plagues, except the ones that employed their own rabbiters, on top of paying the levies. Carrot farmers did pretty well too. Some stations in the south island run to 6 figure annual budgets for shooting. |
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Nov 22, 2024 8:34:30 GMT 12
Ok, so you throw some strawman topics including expanding the scope from the conservation estate to every where. That’s ok. So you don’t actually have a solution other than natural balance. Humans are part of nature and so we are naturally rebalancing the world too. That does not mean we should not attempt to mitigate effects of our past and current choices. Within the conservation estate 33% of NZ we could adopt your approach ie leave the human introduced species to achieve a new natural point. I am not sure what that looks like. Again I am genuinely interested if you are aware of an area where that has been tried? We can all see what it looks like outside of that ie urban , farmland and plantation forests. Those areas all pursue some degree of pest control. They all have some reduced degree of native species remaining. My relatives go and shoot wallabies near Rotorua for free as they are slowly spreading. Should we limit the shooting to allow a new natural level of wallabies? Wouldn't call it strawman, more like "all encompassing" The conservation areas that are pest/predator free all have in common, a boundary. Literal fence, moat, poison/trap lines etc. Little point in Eradicating (not that 1080 has achieved that, or even close) any given species when they can and do just wander in from next door. I'd bet cities harbour more rats per acre than forest. I'm a huge fan of shooting. Non-toxic, no bykill or off-target species hit. Definite kill tallies not guesswork by trapping or ink tunnels. Meat/fur can be recovered. Any carcasses shot-to-rot wont have a gutful of poison that'll get eaten by insects and bio-accumulate up the foodchain, nor leach into waterways. But the govt has an agenda against firearms too. So that's probably not going to come back. I wouldn't call urbanisation or monoculture farming a "natural rebalance" it's rather heavily leaning on the scales. I'm a big fan of "tread lightly" "take only photos leave only footprints" and other hippy mantras. |
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Post by fish on Nov 22, 2024 8:42:59 GMT 12
I'm a huge fan of shooting. Non-toxic, no bykill or off-target species hit. Accept for all that lead left lying around the environment. And what are all the combustion byproducts in the gunpowder? Arsenic? And what else? You may possibly have blinkers on if you say shooting is non-toxic. |
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Post by muzled on Nov 22, 2024 9:23:44 GMT 12
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