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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Mar 28, 2022 15:50:21 GMT 12
Right then. Let's wait...but I bet "leftie" I am very close to the truth when the report comes Out. I've been silenced by the forum Mandate " Trevor's"!... Where do I protest !!! I think there is a bit of a difference between 'being silenced' and not having anyone agree with you. We are discussing a topic, we have differing points of view (hence why we are on a forum). In the past I've worked with people who thought 'being silenced' was having your boots filled with concrete, and then going for an involuntary swim off Canary Wharf. Think we are a wee way from that. On that other forum, 'being silenced' would be not being able to post, i.e. a ban or other sanction amounting to loss of posting rights. Or just blowing up the whole thread, noting that this topic on the other forum is locked. So I think you need to harden up a bit on the 'being silenced' angle. But on the topic of what went wrong, my main point (and a few others if I read it right) simple don't think we have any info or evidence either way to form a judgement. My main point is it is far too early to put the boot into the skipper. If something comes out in one of the four investigations, then you can be first in the que. Four Investigations!?! 1) MNZ 2) TAIC 3) Police on behalf of the Coroner 4) Worksafe 5) fuzzy duck logic interogatian How is it that NZ has a productivity problem again? . Fixed it .... By the way my post was tongue-in-cheek 😂😂😂 |
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Post by fish on Mar 28, 2022 16:32:06 GMT 12
I think there is a bit of a difference between 'being silenced' and not having anyone agree with you. We are discussing a topic, we have differing points of view (hence why we are on a forum). In the past I've worked with people who thought 'being silenced' was having your boots filled with concrete, and then going for an involuntary swim off Canary Wharf. Think we are a wee way from that. On that other forum, 'being silenced' would be not being able to post, i.e. a ban or other sanction amounting to loss of posting rights. Or just blowing up the whole thread, noting that this topic on the other forum is locked. So I think you need to harden up a bit on the 'being silenced' angle. But on the topic of what went wrong, my main point (and a few others if I read it right) simple don't think we have any info or evidence either way to form a judgement. My main point is it is far too early to put the boot into the skipper. If something comes out in one of the four investigations, then you can be first in the que. Four Investigations!?! 1) MNZ 2) TAIC 3) Police on behalf of the Coroner 4) Worksafe 5) fuzzy duck logic interogatian How is it that NZ has a productivity problem again? . Fixed it .... By the way my post was tongue-in-cheek 😂😂😂 Well how was I supposed to know? You didn't use the 'tongue in cheek' emoji thingee that all the cool kids use these days    |
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Post by ComfortZone on Mar 28, 2022 19:18:26 GMT 12
Right then. Let's wait...but I bet "leftie" I am very close to the truth when the report comes Out. I've been silenced by the forum Mandate " Trevor's"!... Where do I protest !!! I think there is a bit of a difference between 'being silenced' and not having anyone agree with you. We are discussing a topic, we have differing points of view (hence why we are on a forum). In the past I've worked with people who thought 'being silenced' was having your boots filled with concrete, and then going for an involuntary swim off Canary Wharf. Think we are a wee way from that. On that other forum, 'being silenced' would be not being able to post, i.e. a ban or other sanction amounting to loss of posting rights. Or just blowing up the whole thread, noting that this topic on the other forum is locked. So I think you need to harden up a bit on the 'being silenced' angle. But on the topic of what went wrong, my main point (and a few others if I read it right) simple don't think we have any info or evidence either way to form a judgement. My main point is it is far too early to put the boot into the skipper. If something comes out in one of the four investigations, then you can be first in the que. Four Investigations!?! 1) MNZ 2) TAIC 3) Police on behalf of the Coroner 4) Worksafe How is it that NZ has a productivity problem again? It really is beyond belief. MNZ is the regulator and after conducting their enquiry would provide their report and findings to the coroner - I get that. But as for TAIC & Worksafe- TAIC, with its 4 highly paid commissioners, 2 of whom are barristers, apparently conduct an investigation on a "no blame" basis, and independent of government depts, to identify potential improvements. Isn't that what MNZ should be doing as part of their role (face plant)? Worksafe - well they will just be circling like a bunch of vultures looking for a prosecution opportunity (just look at their behaviour with White Is). I have it on good authority that MNZ do not bring prosecutions any more, just hand it over to Worksafe. The coroner - his/her role is to determine cause of death, sadly in this case it will be pretty obvious, by drowning. Coroner can instruct a post mortem, which for sure will be requested here. Can also open a Coronial enquiry. Cops don't really do much except the coroner, pretty much the way the courts are run. In releasing cause of death coroner may give an opinion on potential recommendations for the future, which is what MNZ and TAIC will also be doing Yes, a lot of players involved, all living off we taxpayers. |
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Mar 28, 2022 22:12:22 GMT 12
I've done my report, its free, unbiased, no political spin, and no industry protection.
The skipper is in charge. The skipper takes responsibility.
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Post by fish on Mar 29, 2022 10:41:06 GMT 12
I've done my report, its free, unbiased, no political spin, and no industry protection. The skipper is in charge. The skipper takes responsibility. Unbiased according to who? Stuff's Senior Editor just told me in writing yesterday that she is unbiased when covering Jacinda Ardern, do you think she is unbiased FuzzyDuck? PS, did your report say what went wrong? |
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Apr 13, 2022 19:01:53 GMT 12
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Post by ComfortZone on Apr 13, 2022 19:46:01 GMT 12
looking at the pictures it is almost like "cut along the dotted line" where the cabin has been severed from the hull. Must have been an absolute wall of water that hit them |
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Post by OLD ROPE 👀 on Apr 13, 2022 20:12:13 GMT 12
Or a overloaded deck - cabin attachment designed for original one story cabin ..or it rolled easily ( by a smaller wave) and the impact with the sea knocked it off.
... I'm picking the joint between the deck and cabin was either not done correctly or to spec or the mods overloaded it.
It's a clean break.
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Post by em on Apr 13, 2022 20:32:40 GMT 12
Erwin Haag will be able to shed light on the construction or lack of . I’m pretty sure he’s still around so it goes without saying the various investigators will lprobably have a yak to him
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 7:43:26 GMT 12
He may know the design details when originally built. But might not know if the mods were engineered correctly and done correctly.
I bet you, knowing this industry, there is a high chance, any mods were done ad lib in a conversation over a couple of lagers, on a hardstand next to a qualified boatbuilders yard, and done by some dude with a Ute a grinder, resin, chopstrand, and a bag of microballoons.
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Post by em on Apr 14, 2022 8:26:07 GMT 12
He may know the design details when originally built. But might not know if the mods were engineered correctly and done correctly. I bet you, knowing this industry, there is a high chance, any mods were done ad lib in a conversation over a couple of lagers, on a hardstand next to a qualified boatbuilders yard, and done by some dude with a Ute a grinder, resin, chopstrand, and a bag of microballoons. That’s exactly how we do mods to our boat but with carbon ! But yeah na he’s bound to be asked if he thought the original cabin to deck juncture could support another ton or two of conservatory and probably how that would affect righting moment too . He’s a naval architect so his opinion on his own designs is worth some weight |
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Post by ComfortZone on Apr 14, 2022 8:42:45 GMT 12
He may know the design details when originally built. But might not know if the mods were engineered correctly and done correctly. I bet you, knowing this industry, there is a high chance, any mods were done ad lib in a conversation over a couple of lagers, on a hardstand next to a qualified boatbuilders yard, and done by some dude with a Ute a grinder, resin, chopstrand, and a bag of microballoons. If Enchanter was in MNZ survey (or any other foreign registration) then the original approved design will be on file and any structural modifications should also be approved and on file. As I mentioned a way back it is possible Enchanter was not in MNZ survey |
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Post by dutyfree on Apr 14, 2022 8:56:34 GMT 12
It was part of a three boat charter company, well known and highly rated I gather. Can you do that without being in MNZ survey?
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Post by dutyfree on Apr 14, 2022 8:57:49 GMT 12
He may know the design details when originally built. But might not know if the mods were engineered correctly and done correctly. I bet you, knowing this industry, there is a high chance, any mods were done ad lib in a conversation over a couple of lagers, on a hardstand next to a qualified boatbuilders yard, and done by some dude with a Ute a grinder, resin, chopstrand, and a bag of microballoons. If Enchanter was in MNZ survey (or any other foreign registration) then the original approved design will be on file and any structural modifications should also be approved and on file. As I mentioned a way back it is possible Enchanter was not in MNZ survey |
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Post by chariot on Apr 14, 2022 9:04:18 GMT 12
Our son has done that trip but on one of the other boats. He reckons Enchanter was the best one of the three. They are all ex tuna boats so should be able to withstand a fair pounding.
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