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Post by harrytom on Nov 13, 2023 15:28:20 GMT 12
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Post by em on Nov 13, 2023 18:37:59 GMT 12
Um yeah ….looks like classic DIYer was living on that . Could've been any lithium battery not necessarily a house battery
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Post by DuckMaster on Nov 13, 2023 19:16:39 GMT 12
Lithium-ion is so dangerous I can't see why anyone would DIY an install.
Not even my boat sparkie is prepared to touch it. He said only one vendor in NZ actually meets the standard and the price is moonbeam!
But yeah it could of just as easily been a drill battery... they apparently reduce a house to ashes on a weekly basis in NZ...
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Post by Fogg on Nov 13, 2023 19:39:38 GMT 12
How sad.
Confirms my belief that Betamax batteries are not yet fit for boats (at least if your Betamax car catches fire you can get out easily).
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 14, 2023 13:05:44 GMT 12
Not even my boat sparkie is prepared to touch it. He said only one vendor in NZ actually meets the standard and the price is moonbeam! That's not correct re only 1 vendor. The key requirement in AS 3004.2 2014 for a Lithiumbattery installation is that there is a battery management system that disconnects charge sources when full charge is achieved, and has alarm contacts for same. There seems to be the misconception that Enertec's product is the only complying battery in NZ, in fact amongst others Victron, Mastervolt, Lithionics and Dakota are all able to be part of a complying with the standard's installation requirements. Yes, they are all expensive because of the upgrade requirements needed for the vessels DC installation. I received a quote from Enertec a while back, the installation cost roughly equalled the battery cost. |
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Post by fish on Nov 14, 2023 14:27:48 GMT 12
Not even my boat sparkie is prepared to touch it. He said only one vendor in NZ actually meets the standard and the price is moonbeam! That's not correct re only 1 vendor. The key requirement in AS 3004.2 2014 for a Lithiumbattery installation is that there is a battery management system that disconnects charge sources when full charge is achieved, and has alarm contacts for same. There seems to be the misconception that Enertec's product is the only complying battery in NZ, in fact amongst others Victron, Mastervolt, Lithionics and Dakota are all able to be part of a complying with the standard's installation requirements. Yes, they are all expensive because of the upgrade requirements needed for the vessels DC installation. I received a quote from Enertec a while back, the installation cost roughly equalled the battery cost. There is a massive difference between just flinging in some lithium batteries and doing a safe and proper install. We replaced the house batteries this winter and gave lithium a fair bit of consideration. There are some cost effective options around, think I was settling on SOK, but the importance of getting EVERY aspect of the charging regime just right was too much of a headache / risk. We are used to flooded lead acid, and whilst we believed we look after them well and have everything set up just right, we still managed to kill a set on warranty and have some odd things happen to the replacement set. It is that whole thing, do you know what you don't know? If you know you don't know something (like with battery or charging set up) you can investigate so you know it. But if don't know something, then you don't know it. Knowing what you don't know is very important. For that reason we went with the Lead Carbon batteries, which are effectively AGM's, so still moderately hard to kill, but with a greater tolerance of partial state of charge (no sulphation) and a greater ability to accept higher charge currents (kind of like lithium, but the resistance increases as full charge is approached, unlike lithium's, that keep on accepting full current until they explode). The other thing I'm doing with this set of batteries to make sure I know what I don't know, is running a data logger. $30 that plugs into the solar controller and gives me voltage for long time series (i.e. when the boat is on the mooring, or overnight resting voltages etc). I've also got a battery monitor that gives the full charge and discharge current etc, but it's logging module is a bit too complex. As a note, if I were setting a system up from scratch, I'd get victron gear with all the bluetooth functionality. Full data on a phone app, logging, the works. |
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Post by harrytom on Nov 14, 2023 15:57:19 GMT 12
Do you need to notify insurance Co if you install lithimum batteries?
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Post by em on Nov 14, 2023 18:02:10 GMT 12
Do you need to notify insurance Co if you install lithimum batteries? Not until your boat burns up , then have all your documentation from Temu on hand to prove you saved heaps going all Chinese on your install . |
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Post by GO30 on Nov 14, 2023 19:08:15 GMT 12
Chatting to a mechanic mate (owns a good sized mechanical place) an hour ago and this one came up. The chat continued and he said they had just priced up a Nissan Leaf replacement battery, 37K. Then a Pathfinder Hybrid battery, 37K even being smaller than the Leaf. He reckons as there is such a shortage of raw materials for the batteries they want to hold onto as many as they can for their new cars. How do you suppress sales? Make the price stupid.
He can get a second hand import ex Christchurch. $1000 to drive it up. $1000 to take the buggered one back. They are stock piling them, a couple at a time locked in shipping containers in case of fire, until someone starts recycling them.
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Post by GO30 on Nov 14, 2023 19:08:38 GMT 12
Do you need to notify insurance Co if you install lithimum batteries? Not until your boat burns up , then have all your documentation from Temu on hand to prove you saved heaps going all Chinese on your install .  |
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Post by sabre on Nov 15, 2023 8:32:35 GMT 12
From my research I have found that Lifepo4 batteries are incredibly safe and stable when used in a solar powered system. Their charging parameters are very easy to set up using a programmable solar charger. Charging with an alternator and wind turbines adds a lot of complexity.
I think most lithium batteries going into boats will be Lifepo4. My money would be that the boat fire above was more likely started by a drill battery or similar.
But yeah probably give the temu electronics a wide berth..
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Post by harrytom on Nov 15, 2023 11:34:35 GMT 12
Asked my son about lithium batteries. Dont get them wet was what he said,they hate and will react to water.
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Post by harrytom on Nov 15, 2023 11:35:27 GMT 12
Asked my son about lithium batteries. Dont get them wet was what he said,they hate and will react to water. Technology isnt there yet for them to be safe.Another 10yrs away. Asked about leaving hooked up to a solar panel with a regulator."you can but I wouldnt leave on continously"
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Post by em on Nov 15, 2023 20:06:46 GMT 12
From my research I have found that Lifepo4 batteries are incredibly safe and stable when used in a solar powered system. Their charging parameters are very easy to set up using a programmable solar charger. Charging with an alternator and wind turbines adds a lot of complexity. I think most lithium batteries going into boats will be Lifepo4. My money would be that the boat fire above was more likely started by a drill battery or similar. But yeah probably give the temu electronics a wide berth.. 18 months in on our LifePo4s and they are fine hooked up to 3000w of solar . The cables from the charger don’t even get warm with panels at full output and batteries don’t get much warmer than ambient temp . Would happily have them on the boat if charging them wasn’t such a dark art |
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Post by sabre on Nov 15, 2023 22:36:51 GMT 12
From my research I have found that Lifepo4 batteries are incredibly safe and stable when used in a solar powered system. Their charging parameters are very easy to set up using a programmable solar charger. Charging with an alternator and wind turbines adds a lot of complexity. I think most lithium batteries going into boats will be Lifepo4. My money would be that the boat fire above was more likely started by a drill battery or similar. But yeah probably give the temu electronics a wide berth.. 18 months in on our LifePo4s and they are fine hooked up to 3000w of solar . The cables from the charger don’t even get warm with panels at full output and batteries don’t get much warmer than ambient temp . Would happily have them on the boat if charging them wasn’t such a dark art I have foumd the same on the caravan which has 660w/24v. I dont have a temp gauge but the battery is always cool to the touch. I think there is a lot of confusion around the different lithium tech. Lifepo4 are actually considered to be safer and less prone to catching fire than AGM. Is it just the alternator charging on the boat that is the issue? I haven't really looked into it but it sounds like the alternator gets fried when the bms instantly shuts down charging? I think it is the same issue with wind turbines? I set up the solar charging parameters for mine on the Epever MT50 and everything is working really well. Theoretically if the MT50 or the solar controller glitched then the BMS would shut things down to prevent cooking the battery. |
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